questions RE loaning and vet bills

weesophz

weesophz

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what is the general set up for this? As mentioned on my other thread ive put fox up for full loan and have 2 people coming to see him next week. The only time I have loaned was about 100 years ago and I loaned from the riding school i was learning at for 6 months. We were responsible for all costs inc vet bills (routine and emergency) and shoeing etc.

However not sure if this is protocol with all loans or was its just that riding schools policy? If fox needed treatment would vet bills still be my responsibility or would it be down to the loaner? Would it be their choice of vet or mine? Or is all of this my choice?

HELP!
thanks!
 
Most loans will have a full insurance in place to cover vets bills, the person loaning would pay the excess and any minor treatments unless there was a preexisting condition where the owner would carry on paying for ongoing treatment, such as cushings.
You need to get a proper contract in place and discuss everything in detail before making a commitment as it can all go very wrong if you don't, the vet would probably be their vet as he will be under their direct care but there is no reason you cannot be kept in the loop if he does require any treatment.
 
My boy is fully insured just now but to be honest we had be considering cancelling it as he is 15 now and is only insured on one leg due to past injuries making the others void. Probably should have said that in OP! What steps should i take then?

Yes defo will be writing up a contract, i think if i remember right the BHS site have a template dont they?
 
I haven't ever loaned but from what I've read it appears that the loaner would be responsible for the vet bills though possibly if there was a pre-existing condition that might be down to the owner, also the choice of vet would be up to you, you could stipulate in the loan agreement if you wanted a particular vet used. Insurance might be better kept in your name for continuity but the loaner would pay the costs and the ins co needs to know the horse is out on loan.
 
weesophz said:
My boy is fully insured just now but to be honest we had be considering cancelling it as he is 15 now and is only insured on one leg due to past injuries making the others void. Probably should have said that in OP! What steps should i take then?

Yes defo will be writing up a contract, i think if i remember right the BHS site have a template dont they?
Click to expand...

I would keep the insurance in place and arrange for the loaner to pay, either to you or directly, you do need something in the contract for the legs that are not covered, worst case scenario he gets a serious injury to one of those legs with a potential bill running into thousands and the loaners send him back to you, loaning is a minefield when it goes well it can be great but when it goes wrong it can be a disaster for all involved.

The BHS have a template you can download, it can be tweaked to suit different scenarios.
 
With my loan horse I pay the insurance and all vet bills. Essentially the entire cost of her care is down to me.
 
Yeah definitely, i wouldnt try to hide anything like that from them anyway the people that are coming to try him know that he windsucks also, but i have the vet bills to show that he was scoped clear for that and its unfortunately just a bad habit. hopefully they turn out to be as genuine as they have came across in their messages!

thanks for your advice :)
 
With the last loan I paid the Insurance. I would pay the excess on any claim - UNLESS - it was caused as a direct result of the loanees stupidity or something (like they cross tied and went away leaving pony for too long and it freaked, or any practise that would be deemed as unorthodox etc)
 
My boy is not longer insured because of his age and the list of exclusions that came with a totally ridiculous price for renewal, I pay any vets bills as discussed when I took him on.

I should add, I had discussed cancelling the insurance with the owners and I also have BHS insurance when we ride out.
 
I would not insure either if only one leg is covered;) other than for third party, which they could get through BHS.

As for vets bills it seems fair if they pay for routine visits, and if the horse needs patching up, eg it cuts it's leg or has a colic episode.

I would not expect them to pay for long term treatment, such as colic surgery or protracted lameness investigations.

If they had a major problem I would expect the horse to be returned so I could make decisions.
 
Personally I would keep the insurance and ask the loaner to pay me the premium each month. Don't let then take it over, there have been situations where loaners let it lapse to save money without the owner knowing

If I were a loaner I wouldn't want to take on a 15 year old with multiple exclusions without nailing down a plan with the owner and as an owner I think I would have to assume I would need to offer to foot the bill for either certain conditions or a certain percentage of fees

In this particular case I don't think it would be fair for a loaner to foot all bills regardless of whether it's normal for a full loan
 
Exactly this. Mine is excluded for various things and in the contract it says I am not responsible for anything pre existing OR anything the insurance do not pay out on due to previous injuries. Think that bits quite important!



be positive said:
Most loans will have a full insurance in place to cover vets bills, the person loaning would pay the excess and any minor treatments unless there was a preexisting condition where the owner would carry on paying for ongoing treatment, such as cushings.
You need to get a proper contract in place and discuss everything in detail before making a commitment as it can all go very wrong if you don't, the vet would probably be their vet as he will be under their direct care but there is no reason you cannot be kept in the loop if he does require any treatment.
Click to expand...
 
I pay for the full insurance of my mare which is loaned out but the loaner is responsible for all routine vacc's etc and will pay the excess if it's needed. I suggest you include similar in your contract (but discuss it first obviously)
If the loaner paid the insurance any payout would go to who paid for it, not who actually owned the horse.
Also make sure the insurance company knows the horse is on loan and who to; it's quite likely you will still be needed to be the go between in the event of a claim.
Also, another thing often overlooked is informing the passport issuer that horse is out on loan and that they are on no account to alter the passport unless it comes from you. Also take a full copy of every page of the passport just in case it is lost so you can verify it.
 
thanks for all your advice guys really appreciate it!

I had discussed the 3rd party insurance with a couple of girls on the yard last night and thought that sounded like a good idea as my insurance seems pretty pointless due to the exclusions. If fox did become badly injured I would want him to come back to me anyway, i wouldnt expect loaners to pay any ridiculous bills, and doubt very much they would offer to haha! My plan had been they would cover any routine things (although i will probably get his teeth done before he leaves me anyhow, due next month!) but anything major would fall back to myself. I would prefer it if they kept my vet also as we have been with them many years and all vets at the practice know my boy inside out.

So, 3rd party insurance, routine vet bills to them and any major bills to fall to me. Is this a fair plan?
 
When my family loaned Mr G, we were responsible for insurance, shoeing, and vet bills (which there weren't many of besides the routine stuff, but he did manage to injure himself in the field once or twice), though we didn't have the issue of who chose the vet as we already used the same vets for Mr H as G's owner used for him. G did use a different farrier to H, though, which was entirely down to the fact that we kept him with the same one his owner chose (both were/are fairly local and very well-respected).

In fairness, we loaned G on an indefinite basis with no set contract to specify these things, but we knew (still know, in fact) his owner pretty well, and she was very familiar with the yard where we kept him (she used to pop in to visit sometimes, when she was there for lessons, which G enjoyed); so it was all sort of guaranteed by mutual friends and whatnot.

Unless you know the loaners particularly well, I'd suggest getting all these things agreed in advance and put down in writing, just to save any confusion, especially if they live outside your own vet's usual beat (so to speak).
 
It would depend on how/why the major bills were incurred for me.
Say they jumped your horse and it did something bad and you had expressly told them not to jump him at all; in a case like that, they should be footing the bill. If it was normal wear and tear, then I'd be happier about paying towards it but I wouldn't let them get off Scot free from their responsibilities.
Break a horse then hand him back or insist the owner pays is not responsible horse loaning (which is what a full loan is; full care of the horse without having to buy one) and you need to protect yourself from anyone who says otherwise.
 
I loaned my mare for 6 years before I bought her. Loaning is everything except the purchase cost. I paid for insurance and any and all vet bills.
 
Ours is out on loan at the moment and all bills whilst in their care including routine ones are down to them. If they return him whilst injured/ill then they are responsible for vet bills relating to that injury and we are responsible for vet bills relating to illness. We further qualified this to say that illness relating to poor care would be classed as injury for the purpose of the loan. ie laminitis through poor management would be classed as an injury not an illness so they would be responsible beyond the termination.

Its all very well writing it in to the contract, enforcing it if it came down to it would be different, so insurance if you have any doubts over their ability to pay is always worth having.

To be fair we have a great loaner he has been there nearly 4 years now and I think he is likely to see his days out with them.
 
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