Ragwort - Is it as bad as they say?

[jumpthemoon]

Just after your opinions really. Have just had a big debate with my Mum as she says it provides essential habitat for insects/wildlife and should be allowed to grow. She also said it isn't actually that poisonous to horses/cattle, it is just propaganda. Obviously I argued the other corner and told her she didn't know enough about it. I think this is what she has been looking at....

http://www.ragwortfacts.com/

Just interested to hear your thoughts really...

 

[Patches]

As I understand it, Ragwort poisoning is a cumulative effect. So whilst eating one or two plants over their lifetime will not kill a horse, eating one or two plants a day for months or maybe even years (as an example) may cause enough damage to the liver that other symptoms of liver disease present themselves. It's the resulting liver disease that can and will kill the affected animals.

Generally speaking Ragwort as a live plant is not palatable to most grazing animals. Consuming the dried plant in forage such as hay/haylage or silage is extremely dangerous as large quantities of Ragwort will then be readily consumed by the horse.

 

[PapaFrita]

It is very, very, very toxic to cows and sheep as well as horses. In fact, it's toxic to humans too which is why you're always recommended to wear gloves when pulling it out. Horrid stuff.

 

[SpottedCat]

You are both right.

It does provide important habitat to insects etc (the caterpillar of the Cinnebar moth feeds on it and whilst it will feed on other plants it does not gain the protection that is conferred by eating a poisonous plant from the other food sources).

It is also a bioaccumulant, so if it is eaten over a prolonged period it causes liver damage.

There are several different species of ragwort out there only one of which is native to the UK (IIRC).

So from my point of view, it has no place on land used by animals - so pasture or land cut for forage, but I am not too bothered about seeing it elsewhere and would not want to see it eradicated entirely.

There are plently of other plants poisonous to horses, people and other animals which people do not get so het up over and do not demand their instant eradication, so I am not sure why ragwort is different.

 

[Hedgewitch13]

Yes..... I blister if I don't wear gloves pulling the stuff up. Fortunately there isn't any at the yard I'm at now.

 

[izzyxxx]

it is a horrible way for ahorse to die i watched fotage(sp) of the effects of ragwort poisioning at a talk and it was very distressing to watch.

It was thought that a certain moths caterpillars were the only things that could eat it but know they are saying that the numbers are decreasing in them due to ragwort and as PF has said above it is harmfull to humans as well as the toxins are absorbed by the skin

 

[Patches]

I agree with your there spottedcat.

How many livery yards and farms do you see with Yew Trees lining the fields? Yew is so poisonous that horses will often be found dead with the leaves still in their mouths.

That's a poisonous plant/tree that REALLY worries me. We have a Yew tree in our garden. Terrifies me, even though it's far away from the horses. Father in law loves Yew so won't let me cut it down.

 

[jumpthemoon]

[ QUOTE ]
There are plently of other plants poisonous to horses, people and other animals which people do not get so het up over and do not demand their instant eradication, so I am not sure why ragwort is different.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting point, SpottedCat, I hadn't thought of it like that before

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

There are loads of things that are toxic to horses......no-one has mentioned acorns yet..... when the autumn comes they are a nightmare.... some horses actually develop a taste for them aswell.....there are far more Oaks around than Yew.

 

[Patches]

I have oak trees in my field. I fence them off so that the horses can't get at the acorns and rake them up.

Even so, Oak isn't as toxic as Yew.

 

[izzyxxx]

my friends horse used to rear up so that it could get to the oak trees and eat

there are so many things that could kill your horse and thie list of plants are hard to control i think we can only do the best we can and hope that thats good enough

 

[OWLIE185]

Ragwort will also damage sheep and cattle it is just that most are slaughtered fairly young so they don't die of Ragwort poisoning.

Each ragwort plant will release approximately 150,000 seeds of which approximately 70% will germinate.

Ragwort is a cumalative poison which means that each time a horse eats it a number of its liver cells will be destroyed. Once 50% have been destroyed your horse will die.

When touching Ragwort dead or alive always wear thick Industrial grade rubber gloves.

When pulling it up put it immediately into a thick plastic bag so that the seeds can not fall to the ground and germinate.

The Ragwort bill means that Ragwort should not be allowed to grow anywhere near where horses graze.

 

[jinglejoys]

Which would you rather see Dead Horse or live moth?
The moth can eat grounsle (it always used to when I was a child and you never saw ragwort around.
Unfortunately domestic livestock is a no-no in this country every one would rather cuddle a bunny!

 

[rema]

If ragwort is toxic for sheep,we graze sheep on the fields to clear the ragwort is this becuase sheep only have a shorter lifespan than of horses and/or will go for slaughter before the toxins have done serious damage to the sheep.Sorry but i have always wondered this!!.

 

[joanne1920]

i always thought ragwort was poisonous for humans too, so surely cattle and sheep grazing it then us eating them is infact poisoning us too????????????

 

[SpottedCat]

[ QUOTE ]
Which would you rather see Dead Horse or live moth?
The moth can eat grounsle (it always used to when I was a child and you never saw ragwort around.
Unfortunately domestic livestock is a no-no in this country every one would rather cuddle a bunny!

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry but this is a terribly ignorant view - the moth lays its eggs on ragwort and then the caterpillars eat it, so it is a method of biocontrol of common ragwort (see http://www.butterfly-conservation.org/species/moths_factsheets/Cinnabar.pdf)

It is not a case of 'one or the other' - most horse owners accept that pasture management in the form of poo picking is required in order to ensure their horses do not beocme wormey. Removing ragwort from your field is just sensible pasture management.

If you start eradicating plants because they are poisonous to one thing, you risk upsetting all kinds of balances - for example bats feed on cinnabar moths (no, not exclusively), so reduce one of their food sources and the populatiosn may go down. But bats also eat other insects, so you may see the numbers of flies and midges which plague your horse increase as a result of eradicating ragwort. I'm not saying any of this would come true, just that a holistic view of the planet is much more sustainable in the long term, and it is by ignoring this in the past that we have all these rare species now.

I'm not saying don't get rid of it where it is not wanted, but where there is no livestock, what's the problem? That it may spread on to your land and you may have to pull it - well, that's life, horse owning is hard work and relies on a degree of being aware of the hazards and looking to reduce them, not on random eradication of one of the many plants poisonous to horses. By that logic, we would get rid of most evergreen plants, all foxgloves, horsetails (also a bioaccumulant like ragwort but not nearly so vilified), nighshade, hemlock...I could go on!

 

[*hic*]

I dont believe that ragwort is processed the same by sheep (ruminants) as it is by other animals. We also keep sheep, the sheep like ragwort whether they are lambs or adults.

We slaughter and butcher our own animals. Ragwort acts by damaging the liver. I'm very partial to sheep liver and so we inspect very carefully as I'd not want to eat a damaged one. We have NEVER found any liver damage in our sheep, neither the young lambs nor the ancient old ewes we kill to eat as mutton. I can find no evidence of any cumulative effect on the livers of sheep in my small sample.

 

[rema]

Thankyou for your reply!.

 

[Happytohack]

If anyone is any doubt about the horrific effect of ragwort poisoning, I suggest they attend one of Dr Knottebelt's talks about it - if they can sit through the film of a horse with ragwort poisoning, they are a stronger person than I am.

 

[Donkeymad]

You can't really compare Ragwort with either Yew or acorns, as Ragwort spreads so so easily, it takes a bit more to grow 150,000 trees that ragwort plants!

 

[Cahill]

is it true that the seeds spread before it gets to the `fluffy dandylion`stage?

 

[SpottedCat]

[ QUOTE ]
You can't really compare Ragwort with either Yew or acorns, as Ragwort spreads so so easily, it takes a bit more to grow 150,000 trees that ragwort plants!

[/ QUOTE ]

Fine, compare it to horsetail then - spreads like wildfire, is a bioaccumulant like ragwort, never hear 'we should eradicate all horsetail' do you?

 

[Patches]

I see far more horsetail in people's fields when I'm hacking than ragwort. Horses will readily eat horsetail too.

Ragwort just gets more press than other poisonous plants/trees.