Ragwort

[bluebear]

I sent my gelding away last summer/winter to a loan home with an ex friend.

I have reason to suspect that he may have come into contact with ragwort while away in his care. As he is now showing signs of potential ragwort poisoning. He is under vet investigation and tests have been run (awaiting results) as a precaution I've slowly changed his diet to a high fiber low protein diet. He is now gaining a little weight since this changed I had hoped this was a good sign potentially.

My question is, if it is what I suspect is there any chance of survival for him he's only 4.

 

[BurntontheoutsideTurkey]

Do you know for definite he was exposed to ragwort? A very large amount of ragwort does need to be eaten before symptoms show, particularly in a relatively short time scale such as this - many kilos, depending on body weight, and most horses are not keen to eat it even when they are short of forage. The symptoms of poisoning are actually symptoms of liver damage and there are many other causes of liver damage, including mycotoxins, which horses can consume very easily in grass and forage without anyone being aware of their presence, or feed/pasture contamination. With many of these causes damage may be reversible.

 

[bluebear]

Thanks for the reply dont know 100% but I'm about 90% sure that he has been exposed to it, as per vets advice he is on low protein diet. But still awiting test results. So I suppose they will show more. There was probably 3 to 6 plants that he had in his field. One of his horses has showed the same symptoms as my boy and they were in the same pasture at same time. He's been dewormed had teeth done. My mare who didn't leave my property is fine.

 

[BurntontheoutsideTurkey]

Thanks for the reply dont know 100% but I'm about 90% sure that he has been exposed to it, as per vets advice he is on low protein diet. But still awiting test results. So I suppose they will show more. There was probably 3 to 6 plants that he had in his field. One of his horses has showed the same symptoms as my boy and they were in the same pasture at same time. He's been dewormed had teeth done. My mare who didn't leave my property is fine.

To be honest bloods and biopsies won't tell you what he ate - the type of damage ragwort causes is indistinguishable from that caused by other toxins. There are several families of plants that contain the compounds in ragwort, some of which are more palatable (eg comfrey), but none are likely to be eaten in large quantities. Being exposed to it is not the same as eating it, and if there were only a handful of plants available to him they would not be sufficient to cause symptomatic damage on their own. Mycotoxins from grass (particularly in a wet year) are more likely to be eaten (rather than deliberately avoided) and thus cause problems. I hope your test results are positive.

 

[MidChristmasCrisis]

Liver damage from eating ragwort takes years to become apparent. Horses tend not to eat ragwort unless it’s the only palatable forage on a very bare field. I agree with burnt toast above. Grass sickness (believed to be mycotoxins as above) may be the culprit.

 

[BurntontheoutsideTurkey]

Liver damage from eating ragwort takes years to become apparent. Horses tend not to eat ragwort unless it’s the only palatable forage on a very bare field. I agree with burnt toast above. Grass sickness (believed to be mycotoxins as above) may be the culprit.

I don't think there's a link between grass sickness and mycotoxins? Must admit I haven't kept up with research but I vaguely remember there was talk of soil bacteria being a possible main cause?

 

[MidChristmasCrisis]

Genuinely I don’t think anything has been ruled in or out as a cause and yes soil bacteria has been proposed. I was surprised when I moved to England that the horse community where I am, are not as aware of grass sickness as the horse community in Scotland where I lived. We raised money quite regularly for research and it had a high level of awareness amongst owners.

 

[BurntontheoutsideTurkey]

Genuinely I don’t think anything has been ruled in or out as a cause and yes soil bacteria has been proposed. I was surprised when I moved to England that the horse community where I am, are not as aware of grass sickness as the horse community in Scotland where I lived. We raised money quite regularly for research and it had a high level of awareness amongst owners.

So it's not believed to be mycotoxins? Your previous post sounded quite convinced.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

Genuinely I don’t think anything has been ruled in or out as a cause and yes soil bacteria has been proposed. I was surprised when I moved to England that the horse community where I am, are not as aware of grass sickness as the horse community in Scotland where I lived. We raised money quite regularly for research and it had a high level of awareness amongst owners.

I don't think that grass sickness is as prevalent here as in Scotland. I have been involved with horses for around 65 years in the Midlands and never come across a case (yet).

 

[MissTyc]

My ISH who died of Ragwort poisoning was 12 years old and had not been near Ragwort for 9 years (since I got him). We knew he had been in a high Ragwort field but thought he'd got away with it, until he suddenly went into liver failure after a routine dental. Apparently this is a very common sequence of events, with sedation adding pressure on the liver and suddenly BOOM, the liver is done. The youngest hrose I knew to die of Ragwort poisoning was 7 years old and he had sadly lived in a field that was more Ragwort than anything else until he was 5. again, the two years after I rescued him I stupidly thought he had "got away with it". That was a long time ago and taught me a lot. Most horses won't eat Ragwort until it has wilted. Even then, it's nost super palatable and tends to rot in the field. The biggest risk is dry Ragwort in hay (or fields with loads of it, of course). Not saying it's not Ragwoirt poisoning, but definitely advising not to assume at this point.

 

[nutjob]

I've had one with liver failure which was not ragwort poisoning. You should know from blood tests if it's a liver issue.

It's worth giving a supplement with milk thistle, B vitamins and vit K to support the liver. My pony was 19 and was quite poorly but he did recover.

 

[Bill Ellson]

I don't think there's a link between grass sickness and mycotoxins? Must admit I haven't kept up with research but I vaguely remember there was talk of soil bacteria being a possible main cause?

It was thought / suspected that equine grass sickness was a form of botulism, but research published last year identified a neurotoxin, i.e. a toxin affecting the nervous system. "Further work is under way to determine the source of this neurotoxin": Equine grass sickness linked to neurotoxic enzyme
Mycotoxins and pyrrolizidine alkaloids are hepatotoxins, i.e. they affect the liver. Mycotoxins can be produced by molds on grass, but can be produced by molds on hay. Many such molds are not visible to the naked eye. Pyrrolizidine alkaloids, the toxins in ragwort, are found in around 3% of the worlds flowering plants, but are also a common contaminant in alfalfa pellets. Apart from instances of extreme animal cruelty where horses have been starved into eating ragwort, supposed diagnoses of equine Ragwort Poisoning appear to be made exlusively by vets who fail to comprehend that Megalocytosis (a distinctive pattern of liver damage seen under a microscope) caused by pyrrolizidine alkaloids is indistinguishable by that caused by mycotoxins.