Rant re running a small livery yard :)

[jules9203]

I am so flipping fed up with people expecting super cheap diy. I had some one ask the other day for diy + turn out & bring in 5 days a week for less than £225 per month. Including ad lib hay, good grazing and hacking, late night checks and use of school. I rent out 7 boxes and the rent I pay would just be covered if I rent each box for £200 per month, with nothing included. Let alone fencing, fertiliser, seeding, water, electricity etc oh yes and my labour. I'm not the cheapest in the area and accept that but some people really need to understand how much it costs 😤😤😤. I don't see why someone should expect a YO to give up their time for nothing, to look after their horse, so that they can have cheap livery. Sorry but I'm not greedy. Just trying to make a small living. I have gone from having a long wait list to having a space all summer (which has now been filled) Most of the yards locally are the same and have taken on house sitting/dog walking etc. Not asking for sympathy etc as wouldn't run a yard if I didn't want to but it does seem to be an increasing amount of people can't actually afford a horse (or aren't prepared to put in the hard work themselves). Just a rant!

 

[chaps89]

It sounds like you have a lovely set up, and that price sounds exceptionally reasonable to me - you don't happen to be Bucks/Berks/Surrey way do you?!

DIY including a bring in or turnout each day down here but no hay is £285, or including hay is £330 (2 different yards)

I just don't understand what planet people are on that they would want so much for so little. It takes skill and experience to *successfully* run a yard, never mind the physical costs attached, and to me that should be recognised both through being a nice client (hopefully!) And in remuneration.

Livery is starting to go up around here. I'd love for it not to (of course!) But I'm just more surprised that its taken so long.

 

[NLPM]

It sounds lovely.

This is going to sound horribly unsympathetic - and I don't mean it to, because I genuinely do understand your frustration and I DON'T think you're being greedy - but when I lived in Hampshire I paid £80 a month per horse for DIY with a stable, and small herd turnout. Yard had great hacking and two arenas, although one of them was half standard size. Hay not included, but was made on site so large bales were dirt cheap. I then moved to a livery yard at more than £600 a month which was a bit of a shock, but I could see exactly why it cost so much. You might get more sensible people if you offer full livery, if you have time for that?

I don't know whereabouts you are in Hampshire, but it may be that the sort of DIY yard I was on creates false expectations for people and then they expect everywhere to be the same?

 

[AdorableAlice]

It is far more expensive to put a dog in kennels for a week than it is to have a horse in livery and people seem to think that yard owners keep a livery yard for the love of horses.

What horse owners requiring livery don't see are all the running costs. Fencing, insurance, power/water etc. They only see the wooden box and the grazing and judge the value of that as a few quid a week.

There is a really funny facebook comment going at at the moment about yard owners and rules. Apparently it is bonkers and unreasonable to be asked to pick your horses feet out before leaving the school to help prevent the surface being walked about. It just shows how ignorant some owners can be.

 

[Leam_Carrie]

It must be tricky running a yard. I had no idea how much work was involved until I kept a horse on my own land. The work and money to maintain the land is endless! I hope you find lovely liveries that appreciate your set up .

 

[sport horse]

The average livery does not have a clue nor cares about the costs - they just dont want to pay much. Staff quite rightly have to be paid minimum wage, 28 days holiday, NI contributions and now pension fund contributions. It all adds up. I even had one stupid livery ask to go DIY but to be able to ring if it rained and we would pick up doing her horse!! I have now been a livery free zone for nearly 10 years and long may it stay that way.

 

[EllenJay]

Not sure why this needs a "rant". You are running s business - someonecadked for a deal that doesn't suit you - so you just say "No".

I run a business, people regularly ask me to work for them for 50% of my daily charge rate. The answer is always no, no ranting needed!

 

[jojo5]

The average livery does not have a clue nor cares about the costs - they just dont want to pay much. Staff quite rightly have to be paid minimum wage, 28 days holiday, NI contributions and now pension fund contributions. It all adds up. I even had one stupid livery ask to go DIY but to be able to ring if it rained and we would pick up doing her horse!! I have now been a livery free zone for nearly 10 years and long may it stay that way.

Not sure why there is such a sweeping, inaccurate statement at the start of this comment. Add to this a later referral to a livery as ‘stupid’ ....is there a need to be so rude? I have been on a number of livery yards in different counties in the last 20 years and the opening comment is not true of owners I have known. Perhaps it was a good move for this poster to become’livery free’ if it is found to be so distasteful.

 

[Tihamandturkey]

The average livery does not have a clue nor cares about the costs - they just dont want to pay much. Staff quite rightly have to be paid minimum wage, 28 days holiday, NI contributions and now pension fund contributions. It all adds up. I even had one stupid livery ask to go DIY but to be able to ring if it rained and we would pick up doing her horse!! I have now been a livery free zone for nearly 10 years and long may it stay that way.

Maybe I'm not an "average livery" but I find this post both incorrect and insulting.

I previously owned my own land and stables so am fully aware of the cost of upkeep and also the hours involved in caring for horses and I certainly don't expect to pay as little as possible.

TBH neither have any of the other livery owners I have known over the years.

 

[Abi90]

Maybe I'm not an "average livery" but I find this post both incorrect and insulting.

I previously owned my own land and stables so am fully aware of the cost of upkeep and also the hours involved in caring for horses and I certainly don't expect to pay as little as possible.

TBH neither have any of the other livery owners I have known over the years.

This, I pay good money for part livery and am happy to (or would be if I wasn’t having to redo the mucking out every day and having to go up on full livery days to check hay as my horse with a history of ulcers has been given enough hay for a small Falabella overnight but that’s another story) as I understand the costs involved.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Most of the girls that charge to just turnout near me are £1 each way or £20 for 7 days? My livery is £108 a month diy but id never pay someone £80 a month to bring him in and out lol could nearly have another horse for that 😂

 

[meleeka]

A friend owns a yard and doesn’t do DIY anymore because it’s just not worth it. 5 or 7 day livery is all she does and for that her rates are quite reasonable. She still has people complaining about mud though, when the horses are allowed out all day every day in winter, which is a rarity round here.

 

[hopscotch bandit]

We get a free turnout or bring in everyday on our assisted livery package but have to buy our own hay/straw/shavings on DIY. I like the yard and it compares much the same with others in the area in terms of cost so I think its reasonable. I've spoken to our YO and been amazed at how much things cost, there is not much of a living to be made in it, I know.

 

[Auslander]

Unless it was an existing livery, I'd do the head tilt/eyebrow wriggle if someone asked for that. I get people approaching me all the time for livery, and the majority of them want my arse on a platter for less than £200 a month. I just say No, and never think of them again.

I did have one who said "I was here 10 years ago, and it was only £130 a month"! I gently reminded her that 10 years is a long time, it was a completely different set up back then, with 30+ horses on the property (and I was somewhere completely different). She then asked me what I offered that made it worth paying any more. I told her that if she was coming to me with no idea why people are happy to pay significantly more than £130 a month to have their horses with me, that she wasn't coming to me for the right reasons anyway.

She was also fairly high on a list that I have in my possession, of people who were responsible for the owner of the farm deciding to close the previous livery and turn all the stables into industrial units!

 

[chocolategirl]

I am so flipping fed up with people expecting super cheap diy. I had some one ask the other day for diy + turn out & bring in 5 days a week for less than £225 per month. Including ad lib hay, good grazing and hacking, late night checks and use of school. I rent out 7 boxes and the rent I pay would just be covered if I rent each box for £200 per month, with nothing included. Let alone fencing, fertiliser, seeding, water, electricity etc oh yes and my labour. I'm not the cheapest in the area and accept that but some people really need to understand how much it costs 😤😤😤. I don't see why someone should expect a YO to give up their time for nothing, to look after their horse, so that they can have cheap livery. Sorry but I'm not greedy. Just trying to make a small living. I have gone from having a long wait list to having a space all summer (which has now been filled) Most of the yards locally are the same and have taken on house sitting/dog walking etc. Not asking for sympathy etc as wouldn't run a yard if I didn't want to but it does seem to be an increasing amount of people can't actually afford a horse (or aren't prepared to put in the hard work themselves). Just a rant!

Couldn’t agree more! My yard offers beautiful American barn stabling, brand new 40 x 40 sand and fibre arena with mirrors, all day turnout, 24 hr in summer, lots of off road riding, plus lots more all for the princely sum of £31 pw! Struggle to fill boxes sometimes, luckily they rarely come up, but like you I’ve noticed a big shift recently. With the cost of my insurance rising yearly, fencing, fertiliser, weed killers etc etc etc, it’s becoming more and more difficult to justify keeping my yard going. Only for the fact we make our own hay, I would already be closed long ago. YO’s shouldn’t have to fund someone else’s hobby 😏

 

[MrsMozart]

I think tbe 'average' livery user really doesn't understand the costs.

I have to admit (and I'm embarrassed to do so), that I really didn't have a clue. I thought I did but nope, in reality I really didn't. It didn't register just how much it costs in terms of energy, time, effort and money looking after just the land alone takes; then, add in handling and caring for a myriad of horses, not all of whom have been handled to a reasonable degree, and the costs really do mount up.

 

[chocolategirl]

Most of the girls that charge to just turnout near me are £1 each way or £20 for 7 days? My livery is £108 a month diy but id never pay someone £80 a month to bring him in and out lol could nearly have another horse for that 😂

Do they have ‘care, custody and control’ insurance built into that price? I have to pay this on top of my public liability insurance. It covers me to handle clients horses, and in the event of an accident, I as well as the horse is covered financially. It’s not cheap. Just saying 🤷‍♀️

 

[dominobrown]

I run a livery yard, and you literally have people asking for DIY all the time. I have a limited number of boxes for Diys and the liveries I have are fantastic and have been here for years. Its horrible but peoplemwho didnt work have where asked to leave. I do occasionally asvertise for scgooling/ full livery places and then people get in touch wanting DIY and if I have the stables spares anyways etc... but I just explain ota not viable and they can go on a waiting list for DIY if a space ever comes up.
If a space did come up I would require refrences from the yard they are leaving as well.
From a business model point of view full livery or part livery are better for you and then if you have boxes spare then just a coupke of DIYs

 

[Barton Bounty]

Do they have ‘care, custody and control’ insurance built into that price? I have to pay this on top of my public liability insurance. It covers me to handle clients horses, and in the event of an accident, I as well as the horse is covered financially. It’s not cheap. Just saying 🤷‍♀️

No idea! But im just saying too , i dont need the help 😊

 

[TheHairyOne]

I am a DIY and have been for 10+ years. I pay very little (especially for the area) and have 24/7 turn out, a 60x40 school, auto troughs, lorry parking, hardstanding, storgae and some hay is included in winter (they make their own).

However, it is DIY. We have our own field. Want decent fencing - diy. Have just spent £300 and an entire day doing some p&r and if we ever leave it wont be coming with us. Field rolled - all the kit is onsite - diy. School harrowed - diy. Fertiliser - pay for it. Seeded - pay for it. Stuff breaks - pay for it. Shelter - pay for it. Lights (no electric) - pay for it. You get the idea.

Please dont put everyone who is DIY in the same boat. Very happy with this arrangement as get to manage the horses as we like - and as we had a similar set up on a previous yard we also knew the cost before moving in!

 

[Otherwise]

Most of the girls that charge to just turnout near me are £1 each way or £20 for 7 days? My livery is £108 a month diy but id never pay someone £80 a month to bring him in and out lol could nearly have another horse for that 😂

So how much do you think that service is worth? I pay double that, the fields are 20 mins away so if they're in the far corner it takes ages to bring them in.

 

[BOWS28]

I'm on DIY in the Essex/ Cambridgeshire border. I currently pay £35 per week livery and £22 much removal per month. I pay for my own bedding (£150 every other month), hay (£4.50 per bale) and feed. I also have to pay £3 for bring in services...In the grand scheme of things i'd say £225 is more than reasonable!!

 

[Rowreach]

Most of the girls that charge to just turnout near me are £1 each way or £20 for 7 days? My livery is £108 a month diy but id never pay someone £80 a month to bring him in and out lol could nearly have another horse for that 😂

How little do you think they are worth then for that service? 🤔

 

[Leo Walker]

And let me give you the other side of the coin. I pay £150 for DIY. The other yards in the area charge between £20 and £40 a week, for one with the facilities etc I have it would usually be £25. I pay £150 because I was hoping paying more would get a better service. It does not. The school is unusable as its not maintained. I was harrowing it daily and was hand weeding it to try and get it usable but the tractor broke and wasnt repaired so I had to stop and now its more weedy and grassy than the field. In the summer I repaired all the gates. The posts are loose and need redoing, so limited amount I could do. I now cant physically drag my field gate open and need help.

The permiter post and rail is snapped and broken. I offered to fix it if rails were bought and was told not to bother. I was made to drag half a shed wall across and dump it in a gap in the fence where the horses were getting out into next door. I've now electric fenced it off but mine and another horse have come in with puncture wounds since. The track is so potholed and damaged I can just about get my 4x4 down there, the other liveries walk after leaving their car dumped on a verge. The roof of the stables caved in 2 weeks ago. One of the other liveries fixed it at the weekend as it wasnt being done. The yard owner has hassled me and hassled me to build her a field shelter for her horses. I'm crippled with back and leg damage, there is no way I can do it. Its not a DIY job. And its not even for my blumming horse to use!

I topped and harrowed the fields with a tiny tractor thats more like a ride on lawnmover. That was fun! I am not supposed to be responsible for any of this, but if I hadnt done it, it wouldnt be done.

There are now 8 horses on 10 acres of clay. YO announced yesterday that our horses are now in until spring with an hours turnout a day. Hers are being moved into our field and left out 24/7 and 1 maybe 2 grass liveries are being brought in. So now my pony is going to be stuck in a leaking stable 23 out of 24 hours and then turned out for an hour into a bog. the YO has changed to small bales of hay and straw and we have to buy them off her for a 60% markup. My bill for DIY will now be £381 every 4 weeks.

So having found her other liveries, spent hours helping her back her horse, done all the maintenance and repairs and paid through the nose for it, my horse will now be stuck in. We were told at 2pm. No notice, no warning.

I left the last yard for similar reasons, although that was worse as the owner was a drunk and caused so many problems my friend was assaulted and I had to make a 999 call from the car park to get the police to come and break it up. The one before that I was assaulted by the "yard manager" as I was leaving as she wasnt able to afford the rent without my subsidy and she went mad.

I'm sure people will say I'm the issue. Perhaps I am. There are other people I know who are in similar situations.

I would happily pay more for a reasonable service. I did think about full livery but I dont want a horse to have someone else look after it. Last time I tried full livery on the recommendation of someone on here my little cob ended up dead of laminitis as they were feeding and feeding him and I couldnt get them to stop.

I am fed up to the back teeth of seeing people bashing liveries on here. You might all want to try being a livery first before you go off on one about clueless liveries and people not wanting to pay. Every single person I know would be quite happy to pay to be on a well run yard, run by a sensible professional person.

 

[Barton Bounty]

I dont know but if i needed it id go somewhere that did part livery! I think the turnout etc is all part of owning a horse so whats the point if all you do is turn up and ride, anyway im not the one being discussed i only said what happens at my yard 🤗🤗

 

[Barton Bounty]

How little do you think they are worth then for that service? 🤔

Jesus ! Im only putting in what happens at my yard! No need to jump on my posts 🙄 i wouldnt have horses if i couldnt do it myself, isnt much point IMO

 

[Rowreach]

Unless it was an existing livery, I'd do the head tilt/eyebrow wriggle if someone asked for that. I get people approaching me all the time for livery, and the majority of them want my arse on a platter for less than £200 a month. I just say No, and never think of them again.

I did have one who said "I was here 10 years ago, and it was only £130 a month"! I gently reminded her that 10 years is a long time, it was a completely different set up back then, with 30+ horses on the property (and I was somewhere completely different). She then asked me what I offered that made it worth paying any more. I told her that if she was coming to me with no idea why people are happy to pay significantly more than £130 a month to have their horses with me, that she wasn't coming to me for the right reasons anyway.

She was also fairly high on a list that I have in my possession, of people who were responsible for the owner of the farm deciding to close the previous livery and turn all the stables into industrial units!

I had someone (a previous occasional client) ring me.

" I'm going on holiday for two weeks, will you have my horse to stay?"

" Er, sorry, I closed the yard two years ago. "

"Oh!! What am I going to do with him then?"

I now run counselling sessions for new YOs 😂

 

[Sasana Skye]

There are now 8 horses on 10 acres of clay. YO announced yesterday that our horses are now in until spring with an hours turnout a day. Hers are being moved into our field and left out 24/7 and 1 maybe 2 grass liveries are being brought in. So now my pony is going to be stuck in a leaking stable 23 out of 24 hours and then turned out for an hour into a bog. the YO has changed to small bales of hay and straw and we have to buy them off her for a 60% markup. My bill for DIY will now be £381 every 4 weeks.

So having found her other liveries, spent hours helping her back her horse, done all the maintenance and repairs and paid through the nose for it, my horse will now be stuck in. We were told at 2pm. No notice, no warning.

Jesus!!! Very appreciative of my yard right now after reading that. And I agree with you about high cost not necessarily meeting the high standards, I went to a BHS yard last winter paying £550 a month for 2 horses on DIY thinking the standard would be better and I haven't been on a yard that was so diabolical before. Will be sticking to my bog standard £100 a month DIY yard where we're happy and YO/farmer is perfectly reasonable (and apart from delivering hay/straw and taking away the muck heap is mostly absent - which I like!). We do have to keep in during the days in winter if it's really wet but we have a winter turn out pen and the mares and geldings get their own days in there taking in turns so the horses are never in for more than one day

 

[Barton Bounty]

My yard is great , we have great sandy soil and great grazing, we manage our own fields I currently have a massive field just for one. Some girls like to try to winter out as much as possible, and if their fields are looking trashy he will tell them. Kinda can do your own thing 😊

 

[milliepops]

Jesus!!! Very appreciative of my yard right now after reading that. .

yeah me too, I can't believe that anyone can think it's a reasonable way to behave. The horse world does attract some pretty weird folk. I can't stand that kind of random decision making.

My yard is almost unaffordable for me but it runs like clockwork and I am grateful to be out of the madness of previous places. The YO lays down the law and though it can seem inflexible at times, everyone knows where they stand. I get the impression he's had the same rules for the last 25 years If you don't like it you're free to leave on the whole it works very well.

I get the impression that if someone asked him to rent a box for half the price he'd just laugh in their face while escorting them down the drive