RC Horse Trials Disqualifications - Area 7 & 8

*hic*

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Just had the following Press Release through. I have an interest as my horse and rider were one of the combinations to have been round the BE100 the week before. It is infuriating that although best efforts were made by all parties to confirm that everything was according to their rules, with the courses being vastly different and of course different dressage and SJ, BRC HQ appear to have ruled against it after the event.

PRESS RELEASE 14 JUNE 2012

Members of Cambridge & District Riding Club (CDRC) have threatened to 'storm' the Chief Executives office at British Riding Clubs (BRC) if they are not given a fair hearing with regards to why their Intermediate and Open eventing teams have been disqualified from the Riding Club’s National Horse Trials Championships.

Volunteers from Riding Clubs in Area 7 & 8 organised the Area Horse Trials qualifier at Lt Downham on 27 May 2012 in which Junior and Senior Novice Intermediate and Open teams took part. BRC Area Representatives from 7&8 agreed at an organisers meeting in May that RC members could compete at both Lt Downham BE and the RC area qualifier 1 week later as the 2 courses would be significantly different and Tina Ure (Lt Downham owner & organiser) spent copious amounts of time re-flagging and moving fences with her team of helpers to comply with RC's request. The dressage tests and showjumping phases were completely different to the BE event the week before.

However, after the Area qualifier a complaint was made to BRC by an Area 8 club member that a rider on another Area 8 team had competed at the BE event the week before and BRC subsequently overruled their Area Reps decision that members could ride at both events and disqualified all riding club members who had ridden at Lt Downham BE in any shape or form the week before, even if they had for example ridden the BE 100 then competed at a higher level at the RC event ie Open (1.10) over a competely different course.

This has meant that Intermediate and Open teams from Area 7&8 will not be allowed to attend the finals at Aston le Walls in August although Cambridge & District Riding Club were the only club to field an Intermediate and Open team at the qualifier so the result did not stop any other club from getting through. In fact it means that BRC will lose out on a significant amount of income from entries for the championships for the 2 teams (approx £1000)

Members of CDRC are disgusted at the way they have been treated by BRC and the fact that BRC have overruled their Area Reps one of whom (Content removed) sits on the National Executive competitions committee, without any consultation or right of appeal.

A spokeman for CDRC said that the club members affected would no longer be volunteering to help or organise RC events and will probably not rejoin next year. As some of them are also BE members they are intending to approach BE to see if they can form a 'club style' structure within BE for amateur riders with regional qualifiers and a National Championships with a programme of training to help members improve.

There have been ongoing problems with British Riding Clubs pedantic rules over Flu vaccinations and riding over XC courses where qualifying competitons are to be held. Due to the lack of runs people have had this year it was impractical to say to members you either do BE or BRC as Riding Club events always lose out and the Area qualifier could not be held if there are not sufficient entries to make it viable. The organisers looked for a viable solution ie changing the courses around and using other fences but this was still not good enouqh for BRC.
 
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Lolo

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Nothing to say apart from that's pretty crap of your area reps. Really hope it gets sorted for you!!

In all honesty, it all is going to the dogs... In our area, the PC dressage and RC dressage are on the same day, so essentially the RC junior dressage is open to whoever turns up. The PC eventing and RC SJ have a similar clash.
 

*hic*

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Nothing to say apart from that's pretty crap of your area reps. Really hope it gets sorted for you!!

In all honesty, it all is going to the dogs... In our area, the PC dressage and RC dressage are on the same day, so essentially the RC junior dressage is open to whoever turns up. The PC eventing and RC SJ have a similar clash.

Oh don't go there, we had that on several occasions, with people trying to filch PC members for RC teams and RC members for PC teams. At least we've done the RC horse trials now and the PC Area horse trials aren't for ages!
 

Lolo

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Bonkers... How can they do it? If you get chosen for a PC team, you're bonkers to say no but now there's a massive chance that if you go for the RC teams you'll qualify simply because the competition will be less. I can think of 2 people who are RC but not PC people. Our club is made up of PC members in the junior ranks, so will struggle to field teams.
 

meardsall_millie

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That's very sad for those concerned. Did I read it correctly - they were the only teams entered anyway? I presume an individual placing was affected and that's why the complaint was lodged.

Sadly this 'pedantic-ness' is part of the reason that I no longer bother to join a RC and take part in the events. BRC seems to be doing their best to drive everyone away don't they? :(
 

LEC

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I think the problem is that the rules are clearly stated and what happens if people in other areas had been in the same position and DQ? I have had to make choices about RC and BE before as they often do not mesh together well. For instance to do the novice 90cm you must not have completed a BE100 which is insane as you can do unaff novice effectively and be fine!
 

Sussexbythesea

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I think BRC forget who funds them sometimes about 50% of our club fees goes to BRC and entry fees are not cheap. They don't seem to see members as customers.

It would be a shame to punish your actual club for BRC inflexibility though as it's damned hard to run club events without active members.

However the rules do state that 'no horse or pony may have been ridden over any fences used in the Area Qualifier during the two weeks (13 days) prior to the cross-country phase of the qualifier.' So the BRC is actually upholding the rules as written - it seems The Area reps have made the wrong call and should have consulted BRC HQ about it before advising. It does seem rather harsh though as most of these courses are open for anyone to practice over and I don't know how you would police that?
 

*hic*

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I think the problem is that the rules are clearly stated and what happens if people in other areas had been in the same position and DQ? I have had to make choices about RC and BE before as they often do not mesh together well. For instance to do the novice 90cm you must not have completed a BE100 which is insane as you can do unaff novice effectively and be fine!

If other people in other areas have been in the same position then I would be feeling equally annoyed for them and even more annoyed at BRC who had the opportunity to say No and cite examples.

I feel the rules need to be looked at and aligned between BRC and the other bodies. Especially as IIRC BE are now running RC classes!
 

SpottedCat

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I do think it's about time BE and BRC updated this rule to say that when the course is normally open for competing/schooling, no one can run over it after it closes to the general public. That would be a fairer rule and an easier thing to enforce IMO. After all, anyone could have entered the BE if they'd wanted to, ditto going schooling in the 2 weeks before the event.
 

Britestar

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The rules are quite clear. Our area runs a yearly camp, and this year it was held where the HT q's were being held. It was made very clear on the entry form, that if a rider intended to compete at the areas they must state on the camp entry form so they could do their XC on the Saturday morning, as the Q's were being held a fornight later on the Sunday.

I would always want confirmation form HQ rather than area rep's on something like this.
 

carthorse

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How unfair. These courses are open for schooling including the championship course and no one knows who schools round it. I see no problem if every effort is made to use seperate fences. I feel very sorry for those concerned
 

rockysmum

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I assume everyone who entered is being refunded their entry fees. After all the decision was made by a representive of the organisation, which must make it their responsibility as they appointed the people in question.

I would be furious in the competitors position, both those who qualified and those who didn't.

Competing costs a fortune these days, the least they can do is make sure people didn't pay for nothing.
 

Lynds

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Tendring Hundred (area 8) were told by our team manager not to do the BE if we wanted to be on the team in case of such a scenerio.
 

trickivicki

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how awful!!!

However whilst (in the end not) fence juding at Area 18 (again possibly a different area) the ambulance was not booked or confirmed or something so the nationals qualifying team from that area got their place on the back of a combined training competition (aka not cross country run!!!).

Our clubs team withdrew immediately but other clubs have not so WILL be going to nationals with no confirmed cross country result......
 

*hic*

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Tendring Hundred (area 8) were told by our team manager not to do the BE if we wanted to be on the team in case of such a scenerio.

The rules are clear though, I haven't entered Stonar BE as will be doing the RC areas 10 days later. Over a different height but that doesn't matter the rules are the rules. Very sad that it has come to the above though

This is the reason why my friend had to miss her BE run there as she was commited to the RC teams and her mother was sure that someone would flag it up.

We were told that it had been agreed that as there was virtually no commonality of any of the courses and the very experienced course designer / organiser had made every effort to ensure that they were different tests, there would be no problem. Certainly it would have been a whole lot easier for the organiser as there was BE again there the next weekend, to have left the courses exactly as they had been but this was not the case at all, huge effort was made to change the course to make sure this scenario did not happen.
 

Gamebird

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I wonder whether there might have been more than one Intermediate and Open team had the timing been different ie. were there more teams that would have liked to have entered but read the rules and decided not to. There are rarely multiple Open teams but to only have had one Intermediate team must surely have been unusual?
 

avthechav

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how awful!!!

However whilst (in the end not) fence juding at Area 18 (again possibly a different area) the ambulance was not booked or confirmed or something so the nationals qualifying team from that area got their place on the back of a combined training competition (aka not cross country run!!!).

Our clubs team withdrew immediately but other clubs have not so WILL be going to nationals with no confirmed cross country result......


Was this Sapey? It is ridiculous!

These are the BRC objectives

•To assist and encourage those interested in the horse
•To improve and maintain the standard of horsemanship
•To improve the welfare of the horse


The competition structure at the moment does not do this IMO. ie in the SJ you can not do novice SJ if your horse has won any money previously BSJA. I think that there are many amateur riders who want to compete at 90cms who are riding horses who may have had affilaited experience in their pasts. These people have to start at 1.00m which for many people is an ask!! However at these competitions you regularly find people who compete unaffiliated at 1.00/ 1.10 but have no affiliated money! The way I see it at the moment BRC actually stops you progressing in many ways rather than encouraging you....:mad:
 

*hic*

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I wonder whether there might have been more than one Intermediate and Open team had the timing been different ie. were there more teams that would have liked to have entered but read the rules and decided not to. There are rarely multiple Open teams but to only have had one Intermediate team must surely have been unusual?

As a helper it was an easy short day with not many entries, that's with my BE volunteer hat on, I have less experience of RC competitions. However, it is in no-ones interest to go to all the effort of running such a competition for low entries. Had the green light not been given to run over different courses on the day then the qualifier would presumably been held on a different weekend.
 

avthechav

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I would be so annoyed if I had trekked all the way over there for it to be turned into a CT...so in theory the combinations that qualified may not be able to jump a stick xc. What I dont understand is how without an ambulance they ran the XC as CR as an extra....surely no ambulance means no XC at all?
 

blue2262

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The situation at Sapey, which was actually area 15 but open to area 18 just for the open was chaos and ridiculous! All area 18 withdrew on the basis that it could not be a qualifier and they could compete somewhere else. Actually there is no other qualifier, and do I understand that it was allowed to stand as a qualifier?
Sapey have cancelled this weekend and withheld £12 to cover paramedic and insurance. They didn't return the fee for the paramedic last time!
These are the reasons people pay the extra and go BE and unaffiliated are failing!
 

trickivicki

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I would be so annoyed if I had trekked all the way over there for it to be turned into a CT...so in theory the combinations that qualified may not be able to jump a stick xc. What I dont understand is how without an ambulance they ran the XC as CR as an extra....surely no ambulance means no XC at all?

Our major H&S concern was that they pulled all fence judges off the cross country so were sending people round on schooling rounds with absolutely zero eyes on the ground!!!! (and that parents were letting what looked like rather young children go around with no supervision).

Apologies on the Area mix up, I knew it was 1 or the other and lucky dipped wrong.
 

blue2262

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I didn't object to them leaving the xc open for schooling, I took the view that with so many people about it was probably safer than going schooling alone and presumably the starter who stayed would have known if someone had not come back, or the parents or friends would have noticed!. I just struggle to believe that head office have allowed it to stand as a qualifier and am cross that area 18 were effectively denied the opportunity to qualify.The decision to WD everyone was made by the area 18 rep on the basis that people were not happy to qualify without showing they could go XC, that really was a nonsense, no one competing at open level would compete only at the area event. I tried to discuss the situation with the organisers but they were so defensive ( presumably they had had to deal with some fairly irate competitors) that it was impossible to find out what was going on.
 

Gamebird

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If you step in at the champs as a reserve without having ridden at the qualifier you need a signed statement to say that you're competing competently at or above the same levels as the champs. I suspect this might stand for those who qualified without the xc phase.
 

trickivicki

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I didn't object to them leaving the xc open for schooling, I took the view that with so many people about it was probably safer than going schooling alone and presumably the starter who stayed would have known if someone had not come back, or the parents or friends would have noticed!. I just struggle to believe that head office have allowed it to stand as a qualifier and am cross that area 18 were effectively denied the opportunity to qualify.The decision to WD everyone was made by the area 18 rep on the basis that people were not happy to qualify without showing they could go XC, that really was a nonsense, no one competing at open level would compete only at the area event. I tried to discuss the situation with the organisers but they were so defensive ( presumably they had had to deal with some fairly irate competitors) that it was impossible to find out what was going on.

I think you are in my club!!!!
 
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