Re: Poorly Mare Part 2 (wobblers/ EPSM/ thyroid)?????

S

SandraBean

Member
Joined
26 September 2009
Messages
10
Visit site
I need help! I own a 10 year old Dutch warmblood mare who has had 3 strange
'turns', all of which have coincided with her being in season, aswell as after
work. The seasons concerned have seemed to be painful and distressing for her.
She goes very quiet and introverted. Shows no interest in what is going on
around her...she normally presents as a sparky and happy girl. She looks tight
and tense over her back and crunches herself up. She sometimes has muscle
tremors and her coat and eyes look dull. She hates being groomed and seems sore
to touch, and sometimes bites her front leg. The same when being saddled. The
first couple of times the vet has only been present as she has been recovering.
Blood tests to date have revealed nothing.

A week ago Friday the vet had been called for a routine check however, when I
arrived at the yard my mare looked really sad and unhappy, she was in season and
presenting with the same symptoms she had on the two previous occassions, and
particularly tender to the touch. The vet arrived, took her temperature, but it
was normal. I lead her out of the stable and walked her up the yard, she was
most unwilling. I attempted to trot her back towards him...no chance. As I
turned her to walk back up the yard she appeared to 'faint', as if in severe
pain. Fortunately she fell onto the muck heap and she quickly righted herself.
Nonetheless it was a very frightening experience for her.

In response to this he did further tests, including pulling her tail whilst
walking and crossing front legs over to see if she noticed and uncrossed them.
He reported that she allowed him to pull her sideways and didn't correct this,
and that on the first couple of times that he crossed right front over left
front she took 3/4 seconds to put her feet back but subsequently she put her
feet back correctly straight away. This meant nothing to me at the time.

The upshot of this was a trip to the vets where, after an internal examination
to rule out uterus/ ovary problems, he turned his attention to her neck. After
repeating the tests again, (she still swayed when walked with her tail pulled
left and right, was quick to uncross her front feet, he also backed her up with
head normal and head high, she could do this, when turned on a tight circle she
seemed to move normally, and he didn't comment)he set about x-raying her neck
and it was at this point he diagnosed wobblers and that was that. It all gets a
bit hazy after that- and I know I have to clarify exact details because I can't
be specific about where the problem actually is but, everytime I dial the number
to speak to the vet, I cry so have yet to accomplish this. In the meantime I
think I'm going crazy and need a bit of help. I have lots of questions too, and
I can't find the answers. I may be in denial, but I'm not entirely convinced
with the diagnosis. If anyone can help with this one, in the first instance then
I'd be grateful. Firstly, I'm a little confused about her symptoms. Has anyone
else had a horse present this way? What was it diagnosed as? Why would a horse love being groomed one day then appear to be in genuine pain the next? Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! It's so hard because I just don't understand enough. And sorry this is so long (and a part repeat of the previous posting.)
 
My daughter's mare was fine one minute, then it was as if a switch had clicked and she became demented,it was distressing for everyone and she became very dangerous to handle, she went to be scanned and was diagnosed then.
 
As I was reading the details LB, I was beginning to think wobblers, though my understanding is that it is usually diagnosed in much younger horses. Whatever it is, it certainly sounds as though there's neurological involvement. How long have you had her? Did the previous owners ever mention these strange turns?

If it was me, I'd ask for a referral to the best specialist clinic around. Sometimes a 2nd opinion, where the horse hasn't been seen before, throws up a very different diagnosis. Fingers crossed - do let us know how she progresses x
 
My horse had wobblers syndrome aged 10 following a traumatic fall in the field. He was a belgian warmblood with TB in him. He was typical type, long necked, warmblood, gelding (3 times more likely than mares). His was progressive. He swayed on the sway test alarmingly, and his front feet together were not corrected. When turned in a tight circle his outside leg would swing really wide. I first noticed about 16 months into owning him following a traumatic fall in the field and him unable to lift neck up. The vet came and immediately diagnosed wobblers, but then changed his mind, and a subsequent vet diagnosed EHV. Following the fall and injury to his neck he had episodes where he'd rub his hind fetlocks together and got sores, then he developed a very strange canter that threw you up and out of the saddle (his whole body appeared to concertina) and you had to halt, rein back and then canter to release his neck. Of course I didn't realise then that this was wobblers, especially as the vet said it was EHV. Then I read up on the internet and I thought that it was wobblers.Then he had three episodes of ataxia, the third being really bad. The vet who'd diagnosed the EHV following blood tests (where 33% of the horse population prove positive as carriers without them all necessary being shredders) was unsure. I was even more convinced then that it was wobblers and insisted on him being taken to a hospital for xrays. The vet had already xrayed him on his portable machine that he'd brought from the yard (I later learnt this doesn't always show up the bones if the neck muscle is very dense) and thus we had a false reading. In light of his ataxia and the vets doubt and my insistance on him being referred, he went to Liverpool - Philip Leverhulme where he was xrayed comprehensively. Two hours later we had a diagnosis, he had severe wobblers with C3,C4 and C6 being affected. It was unoperable, and not only would I never be able to ride him again, I was also told he would not be suitable to live in a field as his ataxia episodes were so bad, he could be extremely dangerous as he could fall on someone or be left unable to get up and recumbent. We made the only decision we could and Rommy was put down there and then.

I guess the upshot of what I am saying and my immediate advice would be to get the vet to put him on a short course of finadyne which is what stabilised my horse enough for him to be able to make the trip to hospital four days after his last severe ataxia. I would also recommend you don't travel your mare yourself but if you are covered on insurance get a professional person to travel her in a lorry designed so that she can lie down if necessary. My horse was very weak and unsure of his foot placement and I had visions of him going down in my trailer on the long journey to Liverpool from the Midlands so I used a professional horse transporter (who gave him unfortunately a terrible journey) and I would not use them again however.

You need comprehensive xrays in order to make a decision as to whether she can be operated on, if indeed it is wobblers. Please feel free to PM me anytime and I will get back to you as soon as I can. X
 
Hi BOF, no wobblers can be trauma induced as well as prevelant in young horses. There are a small number of horses who are diagnosed with late onset wobblers following falls and damage to the neck, as with my horse. Sometimes these can be operated on, but most times they can not, depending on damage to the vetebrae, how many are affected, type of horse, any other factors, etc. You are right in saying that young horses are affected too, I think this is much more common, most prevelant in WB's, TB's, Quarter horses, and heavy shire type horses. Horses with long necks, and geldings/stallions are three times likely to be affected than mares.

Recent research seems to point to the fact that wobblers can be inherited (I for one would certainly never touch my previous Wobblers horses bloodlines again).

Also worth noting, dogs also have cervical myeopathy, especially long backed dogs like dalmations, dashunds, lurchers, and westies. Of course these are sometimes easier to operate on than the horse, which because of its size and weight bearing capacity is always going to be more difficult. The operation is to insert a 'basket' called a bagby basket which fuses the vetebrae in some way and stabilises it. xx
 
Sorry to hear about your horse. It sounds like Wobblers. If you are in doubt then please call out a second vet for a second opinion. Personally I would always have a Wobblers horse PTS as it is a dangerous condition and the horse could fall onto someone and kill them.
 
Hi, you have my sympathy on two counts. My mare suffered from considerable pain when coming into season, to the extent that it looked just like colic, and I couldn't do anything like sitting trot on those days. A few months ago I could her squealing in her stable with it before I even got out of my car and I ended up having to have the vet out to her (needless to say she got up off the floor and felt better 10 minutes before he arrived!). The second reason I know what you are feeling is because my horse had fits and was diagnosed as epileptic. All the tests your vet did with the tail-pulling, backing up etc are standard neurological tests. My mare was found to have lost spatial awareness with her left legs when they were crossed and some loss in the facial nerves, ie she had brain damage. There was no sign of trouble when I'd had her vetted at purchase and she was already in my care when I bought her so nothing could have been hidden. A long time later I realised that her seizures were directly tied to the dates of her being in season so don't underestimate the power of hormones. By good luck the drugs she has to control the epilepsy also suppress her seasons so a double bonus. Mine showed no problems when examined internally either. Why not ask your vet for a course of regumate for a couple of months and see if that makes any difference? When my back is bad, the muscles in my legs scream with my awkward posture and movement is so hard. Your mare could be holding herself stiffly to try to shield her from the pain.
 
Hi
Sorry to hear about your horse. Sounds like Wobblers to me.
A horse with wobblers CANNOT BE RIDDEN. My friends horse has it and now hes a companion for another horse.
 
Its not true that a horse with wobblers cannot be ridden
Wobblers is classified into 4 sections with 1/4 being mild and 4/4 being almost unable to stand!

I currently am riding a grade 1.5/4 mare with wobblers.
she does fab dressage.
Some grand prix dressage horses have wobblers as it means that they often have rather extravagant forward paces!

Just work with the vets to assess location and severity of the problem, then the prognosis will go from there!

best of luck, sorry!
 
Really sorry to hear about your horse but wanted to agree with the quote 'dont underestimate the power of hormones'
There is a mare on our yard that is so hormonal she is no longer ridden and was put in foal in a bid to try to sort her hormones out. She is very well bred. Sadly she didnt improve and is now a field ornament but happy with it. She had a filly foal who also suffers badly when in season. She is vacant, in another world, bad to girth up, colics and hunches up just when stood there when in season. Shes fine the rest of the time.
 
Wobblers horses can be ridden if they have mild symptoms but because it is a degenerative condition it won't be long before it is inadvisable to ride them due to the danger to the horse and yourself. My wobblers horse was jumping discovery double clears 3 months before he was put down, and he clearly had wobblers symptoms then although I did not have a diagnosis then as he hadn't had his ataxic episodes. About 1 1/2 months before he was put down we went to a pony club unaff show jumping comp and I let him graze a little grass and when he started getting ataxia I was concerned it was due to some toxin he'd had off the grass and started googling which is when I was convinced he had wobblers. Wobblers can only be maintained in the long run by an operation and as stated in my previous post this is only dependent upon the horses condition, if more than one vetebrae are affected, or the horse is extremely ataxic the prognosis is guarded to poor, to none existent in some cases, as was the case with mine.
 
UPDATE from 'Desperate Owner'

I went back to see the vet this week as I really felt that I needed to go over things with him again, and to air some of my concerns. I asked the vet to go through the evidence for the diagnosis again, which he did, although not with the same conviction he had done when we were seen last week. The x- ray pictures are shocking (I'd thought last week that they weren't very clear because I was crying...but I was wrong...they just weren't very clear!) And he made comments about how the positioning of her head when the x-rays were taken might have been responsible for some of the 'abnormalities' he had noted!?!? I asked to see the results of the blood tests- clear on equine herpes, slightly below the norms for calcium, above the norms for urea and muscle enzymes and at the end of the report 'mild muscle damage' was noted. Non of this had been raised last week however, when I questioned him on these, he did feel that some of them might be 'significant'!!! I wanted to scream at that point...there seems to be a much bigger picture to all of this, and yet last Wednesday there were two options...keep her as a pet or have her put to sleep. Now, I'm not for one minute suggesting his opinion isn't the right one however, I do feel there is some justification in pursuing other avenues. As well as looking further into the link with her being in season when she has one of these strange turns. If anyone has anything to add/ suggest please reply. I'm feeling a bit stronger about the situation and feel quite determined to get the right outcome for my horses sake, whatever that might be. Thankyou to everyone who has already helped out.
 
Good gracious, sounds to me like you need a different vet! If you hadn't pursued things like you have and researched stuff I am quite sure your mare would have been put down last week. Fair play to you, I love people who are assertive, I googled and researched and emailed loads of people when my boy had what I was convinced was Wobblers and the vets were convinced was EHV too!
 
If it does look like it is linked hormonally and you do not intend to breed (Though I personally Would NEVER breed from a mare with these types of problems, nor encourage it for fear it would appear in following generations if it is genetic in origin!) I would look into the possibility of having her spayed.

It is an under used technique in this country but in the USA it is used a lot in mares not destined for breeding . The ovaries are removed and there is no need for further medication. The mare remains in a "happy" mood as she has no unreceptive period, which causes the moody bit!

If that is the route of your mare's probems or even an agrivating factor it could be a very viable way to keep her in work.

You might also have a look at this
http://www.cvm.umn.edu/umec/lab/home.html

Its the US research centre for storage myopathies and other neuromuscular disorders in horses and this might well be linked to some form of Myopathy. Your vet (the new one!) might find the contact useful too..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top