Real bad day!!She's got to go!!

[TequilaMist]

Went up to do my mare today - nothing stressful just meant to be a groomand bucket of feed.She has a major biteing problem anyway but have manage to 'manage' it so far without any major disasters - its normally more a real pain and takes some fun out of it.Shes usually fine if got haynet to distact her!Well not today!!Caught ok,tied up took off rug everything fine went to get brush to groom and mare wouldn't let me or anybody else near her,lunged at you with teeth then if that didn't work turned and tried to double barrell you!!Now normally would just think sod you I'm coming in anyway but these were serious threats and would be followed through.Managed to get her by feed bucket then grab headcollar!!It appeared mare did not want to leave haynet.Once your at her head its ok(you have to hold noseband of headcollar tho just in case),riding real good its just getting to that part thats the prob!!
Vet coming out this week to check hormone level etc IF we can get near her.If something can be found great we'll work on that otherwise well options are sell/give to someone more experienced in handling this type of behaviour or to be honest if it can't be sorted PTS would have to be considered.Just wanted to get this off chest as OH just thinks sell her but she isn't sellable with that vice.
Oh she even narked/threatened other liveries just walking by!It makes life at livery yard hard as she can't be put in field with other liveries as I worried she may go for them!!
Just needed to get that off my chest as am a bit emotional right now as thought with tlc and doing things slow and calmy we'd get somewhere but its got worse!!!

 

[tigers_eye]

Sounds like a cow (hmm, have you landed with William's mum by any chance?!). Just a couple of short-term thoughts - a shetland with a taste for other horses' jugulars at our yard wears a grazing muzzle like a basket all the time so he can go out with others. Ovarian cysts might be making her very uncomfortable. If you can dodge the hind legs: grooming with you hand furthest from her head whilst holding a metal curry comb towards her with the other means she will hit that and hopefully teach herself a lesson. Good luck with her. Whereabouts are you?

 

[Sooty]

Toffee used to be like this when she was kept in a livery yard. She is quite a dominant mare who has an excess of follicles on her ovaries, making her seasons quite painful. She disliked the mare in the stable next door, she was claustrophobic and pretty miserable unless turned out 24/7. When we brought her home she was a different horse after a while. It does take time, it could be her surroundings that just don't suit her. it could be hormonal, it could just be that she is a bad tempered mare! She may be suited to a home where she is on her own, or just with a companion. I really sympathise, these threats are frightening and it is hard to maintain a bond. Good luck with whatever your decide to do with her, and with the vet.

 

[TequilaMist]

Am in NE Scotland,Aberdeen to be precise.Yard we were on had a sheltie like that, didn't go down well at all .As a lot of them did showing you could understand that.
We couldn't even get to head, even when her head was in feed bucket she was narking.Needed to get a hand to put rug back on as your hand needs to hold headcollar to be sure.Dodging hind legs is also hard as for a 16.2 cobby type she's real quick!!
If it was ovarian cysts/hormones would it not show up when ridden.Behaviour only appears on ground.She's ok ridden only odd buck if tapped with whip.She's even had people with a disability on her with no problems.This is a genuine query as have never had a mare with any hormonal.cyst probs.
Did think of putting a muzzle on her with the theory that when she went for you she wouldn't manage to sink her teeth and hopefully would stop trying but to be honest don't know if that would escalate things as never heard or seen it done.
Hopeing it is hormones or something like that as at least there may be things that will help.
Was williams mum a skewbald!!

 

[TequilaMist]

Funny you mention stable Sooty as no way could you put mare in stable!She'd kill you.Thought she may be claustaphobic so she's out 24/7 with just one other companion(my welsh cob so no-one else involved in that field).Its weird last time we took her in she was sweet(well for her anyway didn't try to bite)OH was even grooming her legs.Then this!!

 

[amage]

oh you poor thing that is terrible. how old is she? is there anyone who can get near her? my friend has a grand prix sjer that is like that no one can get near him except me and my friend and he is dangerous...has put people in hospital. i know i will prob be shot down for this but i got through to him with pure bribery. he sees me, knows he's getting polos and once he has his 2 polos is generally a lamb. i can plait him etc no prob. i know other people have tried it with this horse and it doesn't work for them but they manage it by just leaving his jockey to do him. i know its not the right way to go about managing this kind of horse but its the safest. anyone who has tried to teach him otherwise has got hurt. has you're mare always been like this or just recently. if its hormonal there is plenty you can do. even before vet comes start adding evening primrose oil(and lots of it) to her feed. it can have a soothing effect on them sometimes (its meannnt to help pmt but it did help the grumpy gelding that i bribed). i hope you can work it out

 

[amage]

thats interesting...was your oh there when she lashed out or just females! it may sound weird but if it is her hormones at her she may be better behaved with a guy than a girl! i know that sounds stupid but it kind of makes sense too.

 

[MissDeMeena]

I worked with a racehorse like this..
1) He lived with a head collar on all the time when in his stable.
2) To catch him in the stable you had to wave a handfull of hay, and grab said head collar.
3) Muzzle is then put on ontop of the head collar.
4) Horse is tied up VERY tight, ie so he can't move his head around much.
5) You were then safe to ignore the front end, and just watch out for the cow kicking back end!!

Once said horse was brushed/tacked up, you could let your great grandmother ride him up the gallops, he was a total saint to ride! Just a nightmare in the stable!

 

[TequilaMist]

OH was there as well,didn't matter.Another livery tried as well.
I'm usually the one dishing out the polos/grub.Even in field when you give her polos she sort of tentaviley stretches nose out,you can't have no sudden movements or thats it.and usually has a wary look but the one today was just pure threat!!I have never retaliated by hitting her as felt this would reinforce just her thinking.

 

[TequilaMist]

Mare is 8 allegedly has bred 2 foals in past before I got her age 7.Wonder now if this was due to nature maybe pleasant went in foal!Will give evening primrose oil a go!!Am sorry for mare too as she obviously isn't happy too.Thats ok about the bribing,thats what I've being hopeing she'll realise its not bad being around me!!

 

[TequilaMist]

hI that was what I used to do to get her out of stable on few occasions she was in one(she needed to be in box for short period)
Did horse ever stop biting without the muzzle or was it a lifetime thing?
I don't usually tie her up tight as let her eat hay but somtimes I am a bit soft.So that would definitely be an option especially when vet arrives.I'll let you know if I manage to avoid the back end,the horse moves faster than me!!

 

[GTs]

I hate bullshit horses, I would give them a try to see if anything was medically wrong, and try to change environments if nothing works I would not think twice about killing it.

 

[amage]

if she had two foals she may well be experiencing a bit of a hormone imbalance at mo. are there any mares&foals on your yard? if her own were bred in quick succession she may be unused to having proper seasons and she may have developed ovarian cysts which can be painful. or the other hormone related issue could be she is producing extra follicles on her ovaries causing a hormone surge that would normally be altered by becoming pregnant at that stage in her cycle. i really hope you can work it out. also don't be afraid to try tough love. i know its easier said than done but if she wants to be a b*tch remember two can play at that game! i don't mean get into a stand-up row but just carry on like her attitude towards you doesn't faze you and when you groom her or whatever make out like she's not even there(weird i know but you know what i mean don't chat to her or anything). if she starts looking for the attention reward her with a little bit but then stop when you want to. and don't start again till you want to. if you can get her secured enough that she can't injure you try running your hands over around where her kidneys should be. start light and knead the whole area and see if she reacts to pain as this will give you an idea of whether or not her ovaries are sore. be very careful doing this though as some of them can react quite violently if you hit the spot! i really hope you can get her sorted.

 

[seaofdreams]

i knew a gelding like this, he was horrid sounds very similar to your mare although he was a gem to ride, i used to look after him alot as i was the only one who would look after him!!
But the yard we were on flooded and we all moved to different yards for a while and he completly changed and never even tried to bite another person and you could go in the field with him again, he used to charge at you and have you i'll never forget one christmas me and my mum went up to feed my pony and give her a feed, my mum was topping up my ponys water Gerry came over to the fence line and my mum didn't see him or hear him i screamed at her to move but it was too late and he bit my mum on the head, it was awfull but he is a completly diferent horse now, i had to go and see him to belive it, so needless to say she didn't take him back to the flooded yard !

Good Luck with your mare

Helen

 

[Skhosu]

I had a biter, and I mean you could barely get into the stable as he would be trying to get you. I would use the metal curry comb idea (I used a dandy brush for mine) Perhaps the muzzle so you don't have to worry about the front end.
I wouldn't even consider PTS but would be putting lots of work in.
You say sometimes your 'soft' with her. This probably isn't helping, you have to be firm and consistant or the problem is unlikely to get better.
I would cut out all the titbits etc. and seek experienced help from all areas (may consider a professional or even a natural horsemansip person? worth a go anyway)

 

[brighteyes]

I hate to suggest this, but how about a behaviourist *quickly ducks down behind brick wall with tin hat on head* Sorry everyone!

A friend has a pony who decided people are not his friends and they cope using many of the strategies mentioned above. He still isn't trustworthy except for under saddle, where he is an angel. His attitude was provoked by bad management somewhere alng the way and as his history was known (from total softy with all to raging demon in the stable) he was given a chance. He is a lovely boy and your heart breaks to think of what someone did to him to make him so aggressive towards people.

 

[TequilaMist]

Don't need to duck.This has crossed my mind if vet doesn't come up with anything.Just not sure of any good ones in area.When I first got her I honestly thought nature was just down to someone giving her a hell of a bad time!now I really don't know.

 

[TequilaMist]

Thats same with this mare.You had to actually go into stable next door and put hay over the wall.Water was quicly dumped at door.horse has managed to chase some very experienced people out of stable.Think the muzzle idea might be worth ago.PTS sleep is a last resort and to be honest is one I would serously consider if all else failed(including giving her away)I really understand what your saying about titbits but she only gets them when catching/turning out -or if I can't get near her.Which I know isn't helping as rewarding the behaviour but it seems to be the only way I can get close to head.And your right being soft isn't helping .Funny thing have dealt with horses that have been right bolshy s**ts,reared tanked off etc didn't bother me!The teeth really bother me!!Must be getting old!!

 

[cloppy]

I used to ride a stallion who bit and he was managed in exactly the same way as miss d meena describes. I used a bucket muzzle. When i went in the stable he would turn his bum on me and i had to use schooling whip on the wall to make him bring his front end round then grab headcollar and put muzzle on and tie up short very short. good luck with your mare.

 

[WishfulThinker]

I have to say I do wonder if there is something at the grass at the yard!! As Hamish went a bit 'funny' when he was there, and Beau did, and Jake got really moody and bolshy and mean at one point!!
There arent ever any pesticides etc spread on the fields are there?

 

[TequilaMist]

Now that you mention that Kat's owner found her a bit more bolshy when in field (the one Jakes in at mo).There were a couple of horses there that allegedly died of grass sickness but that was many many many yrs ago and nothing even remotely like that since.Must admit put Kats attitude down to being too few horses in a huge field so too much to eat.Don't think its that with mare tho she has always been agressive.

 

[rach1984horse]

Where abouts in Aberdeen are you and can maybe sudgest a good vet. Used to work/go to college up there a couple of years ago.

 

[AmyMay]

I haven't read all the posts - so I'm sorry if I'm repeating anything others have said/asked.

Are you trying to groom/rug etc horse whilst she's eating?? This can lead to real problems for some horses (mine included, who won't tollerate being messed with whilst eating).

When you feed her do you remove her from other horses, so that she doesn't feel threatened.

Are you doing all of this from the field??

Are you trying to groom etc. before you give her her feed - yet leave the feed in her line of sight???

So many horses by their nature are not nasty, we just have to think around the corner sometimes......

 

[TequilaMist]

Hi
I've always used main equine vets in area (you know one in Kingswells- don't know if allowed to mention name but sure you'll know which one)

 

[TequilaMist]

Hi,Mare is taken in from field and tied to baler twine on tie up rings(these are outside).She is usually given a haynet as before it had kept her happy and could groom etc.OH even was grooming legs and she let me pick out feet no problem.She had only one other there (her field companion)who was 2 tie up rings away,both had haynets and both get fed at same time,after handling/grooming.Don't groom whilst eating but did with hay there-usually fine.Have tried without haynet and mare not happy bout that either.When I say fine I mean not the aggression we got that day just that it was there and she never followed through.
Anybody got a set of full body armour for loan or sale??!!