Really dumb questions re. passports/breed registration

[Chinchilla]

I think that I know(!!!) that my fewspot would be eligible for the BSPS Spotted Sporthorse Registry; The ApHUK 'C' (Characteristic) registry; and the British Appaloosa Society partbred registry.
So my questions are what are the benefits of breed registration, is there anything besides being able to show in registered classes?
Is it possible to have a horse registered with multiple societies and what would be the benefits of this?
So how would you go about it: I know horses can be 'overstamped' and their passports transferred to another society but this isn't the same as registering is it and doesn't mean they're registered by both?
I know this all sounds very dumb of me, but I really don't understand this and want to know if it's worth bothering with as it strikes me as a bit of a minefield and I'm not sure if it will benefit either me or the horse.
Sorry...!

 

[DabDab]

Well if you would like to do affiliated spotty class showing with her then it would be worth it (but from memory yours is pretty much a white out type few spot, and I'm not sure that they do that well in those classes). Do you know her breeding? I think you have to state parentage and their colour.

I would contemplate getting mine done if I decide to breed from her, but then again I would only breed from her because she's a lovely sports horse really, not for the spotty genes, so it probably isn't worth it.

 

[be positive]

There is no benefit for you or the horse unless you plan on breeding in the future or showing under the rules of one society, if she has a generic passport with no recorded breeding there will be nothing to put on any other passport except her basic details so an expensive but pointless exercise.
I have one registered with 2 societies, he actually has 2 passports which should not have happened, he is of known breeding and eligible for both which did mean he could show in an extra affiliated class.

 

[conniegirl]

overstamping does mean they are registered with both!
For example a CHAPS passport overstamped by the BSPA means that the horse is registered with both societies.
or a welsh x arab who is registered with the AHS can be overstamped by the WPCS so it can be shown as both part bred welsh and part bred arab

 

[Chinchilla]

Ahhh OK. It seems to be quite expensive to do with one society as well, never mind more than that .
So might not be worth it as there's not a lot of point showing: much as I love her, if I was being totally honest with myself, her conformation is probably not up to scratch to make paying all that money to show to come last every time.
And I'm not breeding her again for the same reason (conformation) because that means all she has to offer any foals is her colour and I'm against breeding purely for pretty coloured ponies, it's just an added bonus.
Thanks for helping clarify things everyone!!

(And yes she's a mostly white fewspot - has about eight or so teeny little spots below hocks and knees and that's it - though obviously has shell coloured hooves, mottling etc.)

 

[Chinchilla]

I still want to contact her breeders though, but a bit worried about doing it tbh.
Tempted by the promise of foal photos of the spotty mongrel mare though.... But don't want to seem like a creep emailing/writing to random strangers basically demanding, "GIVE ME BABY PICTURES OF MY HORSE!" lol
(not that I would phrase it like that...)

 

[DabDab]

What kind of breeders are they? Do they generally breed spottys?

ETA: there's no reason for this question, I'm just being nosey

 

[sywell]

Ahhh OK. It seems to be quite expensive to do with one society as well, never mind more than that .
So might not be worth it as there's not a lot of point showing: much as I love her, if I was being totally honest with myself, her conformation is probably not up to scratch to make paying all that money to show to come last every time.
And I'm not breeding her again for the same reason (conformation) because that means all she has to offer any foals is her colour and I'm against breeding purely for pretty coloured ponies, it's just an added bonus.
Thanks for helping clarify things everyone!!

(And yes she's a mostly white fewspot - has about eight or so teeny little spots below hocks and knees and that's it - though obviously has shell coloured hooves, mottling etc.)

I will put an advice notice from the EU issued in November 2017. When you register a foal you do not know who will own it in the next 25 years so a passport with breeding details is a best bet particularly if you have to sell. If it became a competition horse to travel to the EU it will need a passport as a Registered horse with breeding details. At the moment Registered horse have special concessions for health certificates and travel times. If a horse is stolen and re registerd having the breeding details in he passport will help to prove the identity if it is traced as you can prove with DNA parentage.
As of the withdrawal date, breed societies and breeding operations in the United
Kingdom will no longer be listed in accordance with Article 7 of Regulation (EU)
2016/1012.
 As of the withdrawal date, purebred breeding animals and hybrid breeding pigs, or
the offspring of germinal products of those animals, may only be entered in breeding
books or registered in breeding registers established in Member States of EU-27, if
they were accompanied by a zootechnical certificate in accordance with Commission
Implementing Regulation (EU) 2017/7175
, issued by a breeding body in the United
Kingdom if listed in accordance with Article 34 of Regulation (EU) 2016/1012.

 

[sywell]

There is no benefit for you or the horse unless you plan on breeding in the future or showing under the rules of one society, if she has a generic passport with no recorded breeding there will be nothing to put on any other passport except her basic details so an expensive but pointless exercise.
I have one registered with 2 societies, he actually has 2 passports which should not have happened, he is of known breeding and eligible for both which did mean he could show in an extra affiliated class.

If you bred a horse that became a competition horse you would need to upgrade your passport from ID to Registered.

 

[Chinchilla]

I will put an advice notice from the EU issued in November 2017. When you register a foal you do not know who will own it in the next 25 years so a passport with breeding details is a best bet particularly if you have to sell. If it became a competition horse to travel to the EU it will need a passport as a Registered horse with breeding details. At the moment Registered horse have special concessions for health certificates and travel times. If a horse is stolen and re registerd having the breeding details in he passport will help to prove the identity if it is traced as you can prove with DNA parentage.
As of the withdrawal date, breed societies and breeding operations in the United
Kingdom will no longer be listed in accordance with Article 7 of Regulation (EU)
2016/1012.
 As of the withdrawal date, purebred breeding animals and hybrid breeding pigs, or
the offspring of germinal products of those animals, may only be entered in breeding
books or registered in breeding registers established in Member States of EU-27, if
they were accompanied by a zootechnical certificate in accordance with Commission
Implementing Regulation (EU) 2017/7175
, issued by a breeding body in the United
Kingdom if listed in accordance with Article 34 of Regulation (EU) 2016/1012.

Being more than a bit thick, I don't get how this is relevant? Bit hard to add breeding when you have no idea of parents, just saying...don't even know her breed....and she's never going to be bred while she's with me so it won't apply to any foals.

 

[be positive]

Being more than a bit thick, I don't get how this is relevant? Bit hard to add breeding when you have no idea of parents, just saying...don't even know her breed....and she's never going to be bred while she's with me so it won't apply to any foals.

I is not relevant as you have no breeding details, which was my point earlier, I don't understand how breeding details can be added at a later date if parentage is unknown or how a generic passport can become a registered passport when the equine becomes a "competition horse" there are still many top level horses with breeding unknown although as time goes on this will be less common in quality stock purpose bred but the back yard breeders are not going to follow the rule book so there will always be numerous coloured cob types of unknown breeding.
Not many of us have horses that will travel abroad to live or compete, if by any chance I did breed a foal it would be from a registered mare by a registered stallion so it would have known breeding and be registered as are all the horses on my yard now, I prefer to know where they came from but have owned some with breeding unknown or generic passports.

 

[DabDab]

I have two with generic passports - one was, I assume, done in a rush before advertising her for sale age 2, but I know exactly what she is, I saw both parents, plus pictures of her being born. It's ridiculous that she doesn't have a registered passport really as her dam is a weatherbys registered tb and her dad a registered knabstrupper bred by a reputable stud, so it shouldn't have been difficult to sort a better set of papers for her, but these things happen.

The other I have no idea other than she's a connemara type from a stud that seem to mainly use their own connemara stallion, so I could guess that that may be her dad. Honestly though she could be anything, but she was cheap as chips and is the most wonderful pony I've ever owned, so I don't care in the slightest

 

[wkiwi]

I still want to contact her breeders though, but a bit worried about doing it tbh.
Tempted by the promise of foal photos of the spotty mongrel mare though.... But don't want to seem like a creep emailing/writing to random strangers basically demanding, "GIVE ME BABY PICTURES OF MY HORSE!" lol
(not that I would phrase it like that...)

Don't be worried about doing this! My friend contacts all preious owners and breeders (via passport details) when she buys a new horse and although some don't reply she has had breeders and old owners really pleased to know where their horse has ended up. Get lots of interesting snippets about your horse and its history this way.
One recent non-reply turned out to be that the breeder had since died, so don't assume that if they don't reply they are pissed off by you asking.
Have done it in reverse too - used social media to track down the two foals that a mare i owned had bred with a previous owner. Very pleased to hear they are both doing well.

 

[sywell]

Being more than a bit thick, I don't get how this is relevant? Bit hard to add breeding when you have no idea of parents, just saying...don't even know her breed....and she's never going to be bred while she's with me so it won't apply to any foals.

I take your point but as DNA databases evolve anyone might wish to trace the parentage but i appreciate your evaluation of this horse. I am just trying to get people to know the EU position which DEFRA have not made available since last November as you know they have not implemented in the UK the 1/1/2016 passport regulations.

 

[Chinchilla]

I take your point but as DNA databases evolve anyone might wish to trace the parentage but i appreciate your evaluation of this horse. I am just trying to get people to know the EU position which DEFRA have not made available since last November as you know they have not implemented in the UK the 1/1/2016 passport regulations.

Hmm OK. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. Tbh, the situation with equine ID is insanely over complicated I think.

 

[conniegirl]

I take your point but as DNA databases evolve anyone might wish to trace the parentage but i appreciate your evaluation of this horse. I am just trying to get people to know the EU position which DEFRA have not made available since last November as you know they have not implemented in the UK the 1/1/2016 passport regulations.

DNA testing can only be done IF you have a fairly good idea of who the parents are and IF they are either alive to test thier DNA or they have thier DNA already in the system And you can get permission from the owner of the horse to test against it. Oh and of course those there is the big IF of whether those horses have any recorded parentage.

You cannot upgrade a generic passport to a registered one.

 

[JJS]

I still want to contact her breeders though, but a bit worried about doing it tbh.
Tempted by the promise of foal photos of the spotty mongrel mare though.... But don't want to seem like a creep emailing/writing to random strangers basically demanding, "GIVE ME BABY PICTURES OF MY HORSE!" lol
(not that I would phrase it like that...)

Go ahead and ask! What's the worst that could happen?

 

[sywell]

DNA testing can only be done IF you have a fairly good idea of who the parents are and IF they are either alive to test thier DNA or they have thier DNA already in the system And you can get permission from the owner of the horse to test against it. Oh and of course those there is the big IF of whether those horses have any recorded parentage.

You cannot upgrade a generic passport to a registered one.

That is wrong EU262 and 508/2004 has clear guidance on how to up grade an ID only passport to a registered horses over the years as a registrar I did several from Pet ID and an Irish passport. That of course excluded Red Baron a Hanoverian passported horse that evented with an Irish passport of a horse of unknown breeding but was a DNA parentage tested horses callied Miester.

 

[sywell]

Go ahead and ask! What's the worst that could happen?

Breeders love to know when horses they bred have got to even if its bad news. One I bred was standing waiting to cross the road and was hit by a bus.

 

[Chinchilla]

Breeders love to know when horses they bred have got to even if its bad news. One I bred was standing waiting to cross the road and was hit by a bus.

Oh well I reckon I'll just go for it and get in touch with them then! Wish me luck lol