Really need your advice.. food aggression/castration/cats

[Shady]

For once I have to be serious as i have a bit of a situation going on in my house and i'm not sure what to do about it, or want's causing it but ANY advice will be welcome as i am in no way a dog expert although i do my best and take ownership responsibility very seriously.
Some of you know I have 2 dogs. 1 is my lovely old french hound Jessie and she is now nearly 11 but in great health. The other is my Young Weim Nickel and he is about a year and a half. I also have 6 cats.
Jessie has never been an affectionate dog to dogs that live with her. Cats can touch her , dogs can't but i have never had any aggression , not with us, cats, or any dog. My last Weim was castrated young as i never thought to do otherwise. I was a cat person before so this is what you do. After joining this forum i considered the choice and have left Nickel entire. He is different in many ways to my last Weim and i have noticed that the older he gets the less he will back down and challenges Jessie a lot with all sorts of things. The last never did this, she was boss, he always gave way to her. So there is a different dynamic going on and she is older and has always been top dog i guess?. I step in where i can but how far do you take this. He is super with dogs in general, very submissive in fact, entire or not
Over the last 3 months i have had sporadic vicious fighting between them over ' food ' this could be anything from a horse turd to a speck of cat food and it is getting worse. It's unpredictable so i don't know how to deal with it and Jessie is getting hurt.
The other thing that has changed is the cat's behaviour in the house. Iv'e had cats all my life and balance them carefully in terms of breed and sex and this bunch get along just fine, or they did until a month ago , now they are fighting with each other every other day, different combinations and behaviour that i would never, ever anticipate from the breed.
My questions therefore are, is it connected to Nickel being entire? can you share some thoughts. Logic tells me that is the problem in part but would castration change anything? I am not opposed either way. My friend had terrible problems with her dog that literally changed over night when she castrated but i am wise enough to know that this is not always the case.
Thanks people! xxx

 

[twiggy2]

Aggression over food is unlikely to change after castration. It is more likely that food is something both dogs value and want equally.
Castration only reduces aggression if it is hormone driven in a negative way.
Who knows what is driving the cat aggression, it may or may not be something to do with the dog not being castrated.
It could just be to do with the tension in the house or simply that the combination of cats is not working.

 

[Shady]

Thanks Twiggy, I value your response. Cats have been the same bunch for over 2 years. 4 of them together over 6 years, always happy together until now.
I wondered if lowering testosterone would help but research seems to indicate otherwise but does suggest that females are more territorial and actually worse regarding food aggression! it's less between 2 males.
I am really careful with food and treats. Respect is given to Jessie first and the problem is so random and with such odd things that perhaps there is nothing i can do. Nickel is an obedient dog and normally if i say stop he stops , but not in this, it's awful. When he was younger Jessie just had to look at him in a certain way and he backed off or lay down in submission but now he just answers back.

 

[CorvusCorax]

It's normal at this age for young dogs, especially males, to start asserting themselves. His bits are dropping, as we say.
She is elderly in dog terms and he will probably be well aware of this and will see and exploit any weakness he finds.
With the best will in the world it is probably not random and there are probably warning signs, we just have to train ourselves to look for them!
This is a big bold dog and you have to be assertive. There was some advice given on this thread which will probably be of benefit:
https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/gsd-issues.769976/
This young man needs some consequence in his life and it has to come from you. You have to be very strict with food and very unemotional. You control all movements and interactions, not him.
Don't *let* him reach the horse turd, be fastidious about cleaning up cat food.

I would say the cats are just being affected by the tension between the dogs and subsequent stress from you.

 

[Leo Walker]

I've got 2 whippets, 8 and 2 both entire males. The loveliest sweetest natured dogs you could ever hope for. They get along brilliantly on the whole, but we went through a patch where every now and again there would be a spat. Not fighting and no one was ever hurt, but lots of noise and scuffling. It was always triggered over something high value, a toy or treat etc, but it wasnt about that really. It was about the youngest hitting maturity and asserting himself with the older dog. It happened maybe 4 or 5 times over a couple of months and then stopped as they worked out the new structure.

With such soft, easy going dogs I wasnt worried and was pretty confident it would work itself out, but if there had been proper fighting or anyone getting hurt then I would have stepped in. Its a natural thing for a young dog to assert itself over an older dog at that sort of age, but its a different set up for you and must be very worrying that they are actually fighting and hurting each other.

I hope you can get it resolved. I'd be looking for advice from a good behaviourist. Some of them do email/phone consults if your location is an issue.

 

[Clodagh]

I find it quite disturbing that a young male dog is attacking an older bitch, I do not consider that to be normal. Much as I agree with CC about the triggers I would actually get his bits off - it won't do any harm and it might help. He is getting on for mature now, and obviously not fearful/submissive. If you wanted to you could try chemical castration first, and see if that helps. Thistle did that with her ASBO spaniel dog and it made a huge difference, she has now gone the whole permanent hog.
I would follow the total obedience at all times guidelines that I mentioned in the other thread, and the not leaving alone, but tbh you are never going to be able to keep them away from everything they perceive to be food.
I know nothing of cats but I should think you are a stressed household right now and that must affect them, surely?

 

[MotherOfChickens]

while I am not big on dominance theories, you say you are giving respect to Jessie first-so maybe the food/whatever is therefore being seen as higher reward by Nickel because of that. although people always say castration isn't a cure all, I have seen it work wonders on certain thuggish behaviours so I wouldn't rule it out. But, in the meantime I would do as CC suggests-take emotion out of it, be very firm about food and preempt any strife. Both should have a leave it command cast in stone.Its horrible when they fight ((hug))

I expect as others have said, the cats are most likely stressed.

The only spat my two entire males have had is over a toy and it was completely my fault. Fitz is way more competitive than Quarrie over all things-possibly down to being kept in a group in kennels when he was younger. I now rule the toys and they play happily together but new things are introduced very carefully. Each has their own pen/crate, each are fed entirely separately and they are separated in the car. my cats are also fed apart from the dogs (mostly for the dogs' protection).

 

[CorvusCorax]

Unfortunately there are some dogs which attack those they perceive as having weakness, like age and/or illness/something amiss, like fitting. It's not nice for us as humans to try and rationalise, but they are animals at the end of the day.
Maybe you could pop both to the vet for a chat Shady?
I have two mature entire males, I keep them separately but spend quality time with both. As was once said to me, I buy the food and the toys are mine, I even have the receipts!

 

[Shady]

Thank you so much for your replies, they are incredibly helpful and i do appreciate it and have read them carefully and matched them to what's going on here. Iv'e also read the link, thank you CC.
Nothing else triggers this, no matter how excited they get
I feed them separately , no issues at dinner times, he goes on his bed straight after, she goes in the front room, he never goes near her bowl or hassles her. He sits when i ask and stays when i ask. I can take anything from him.
No cat food is within reach at any point but they do drop bits off the counter sometimes and this has definitely triggered it if sniffed out so point taken on this!
The other day it seemed to be a tiny piece of potato peeling outside, must have fallen from the bin liner . Jess was sniffing it, Nicky wanted to have a look, she barked at him to back off( i assume) and next thing they were fighting and she got bitten on the face.
I came running and yelled and grabbed him by the neck, he immediately calmed and i told him to sit( did shout a bit) which he did straight away and stayed there while i checked Jess. Sent him inside to his bed and made him stay, didn't talk to him.
Later they were playing like nothing had happened.
My gut instinct is to castrate him but the vets will be no help to help me with this decision so i thought i would come on here and i'm glad i have.
Male Weims are naturally dominant dogs and i have worked hard with him because i know this and i have been delighted with his character and intelligence up until this point!!

 

[Leo Walker]

If you wanted to you could try chemical castration first, and see if that helps. Thistle did that with her ASBO spaniel dog and it made a huge difference, she has now gone the whole permanent hog.

I did it with Dylan when he was about 18months old and a nightmare for weeing in the house when he was left. Made zero difference to the issues so we didnt bother with castrating, but it is a very good way to find out if it will help or not. It lasts longer than they say it will though. I reckon 18months with Dylan, although hes only 17kgs

 

[CorvusCorax]

Lol I am glad you said that, I was going to say that most of the Weims I have met are pretty rude and very food obsessed but I thought I might have been chancing my arm
Please no one get offended, I know my own dogs can be utter gobshites at times too

I was always taught to 'give the dog a purpose' after a scrap - sit, down, stand, heel, whatever. Some sort of command/control. So that the 'victor' doesn't strut away with his chest puffed out thinking 'I won that one'. So you did the right thing.
With regards to letting them play together later, I would put him in 'boot camp' so to speak, for now, and not give him the benefit of the doubt for a while, just to be safe and while you establish some ground rules. Letting them rough house at the moment may be counter-productive. JMO though.

 

[{97702}]

Millie lurcher must have some Weim in her - she is an opinionated brat as well!

 

[{97702}]

Unfortunately there are some dogs which attack those they perceive as having weakness, like age and/or illness/something amiss, like fitting. It's not nice for us as humans to try and rationalise, but they are animals at the end of the day

God that reminds me of when my first whippet got old.... she had trouble getting back through the dog flap, and my other whippet (who had lived with her all her life) attacked her. It was just horrible, Isobel was tiny and frail anyway.... I kept them totally apart after that 😟😟😟

 

[Shady]

Lol I am glad you said that, I was going to say that most of the Weims I have met are pretty rude and very food obsessed but I thought I might have been chancing my arm
Please no one get offended, I know my own dogs can be utter gobshites at times too

I was always taught to 'give the dog a purpose' after a scrap - sit, down, stand, heel, whatever. Some sort of command/control. So that the 'victor' doesn't strut away with his chest puffed out thinking 'I won that one'. So you did the right thing.
With regards to letting them play together later, I would put him in 'boot camp' so to speak, for now, and not give him the benefit of the doubt for a while, just to be safe and while you establish some ground rules. Letting them rough house at the moment may be counter-productive. JMO though.

Thanks CC
You are not wrong regarding Weims ,tho i would say they are rude in a nice way they are very food obsessed , bit like Labs, proper dustbins so i have strict rules in my kitchen and i never give him anything first or only unless i am outside with just him training. Dogs eat after cats too so he has to sit on his bed and not move, lol, the expression is priceless.
They hate being ignored as they are super sensitive and adore their owners. Being told to get on his bloody bed and stay there is the meanest thing to do to one but yes, i take your point regarding boot camp.
I have not had any aggression between them on any other thing so far BUT it would be fair to say that this could be because Jessie chooses not to react to anything else, he is certainly disrespectful regarding her space fairly often but i imagine that applies to many dog relationships when one is old and the other young?
To give you an idea of how good he is 'normally' i had to take him to the vets for a sudden huge abscess on his cheek and for 4 days i injected him myself and he never moved a muscle or ran away when he saw the syringe .

I will look into the chemical castration, thank you, i had not thought of this.
Thanks again xxx

 

[CorvusCorax]

Hard as it is, try and stop thinking of them as Jessie and Nicky but as an old dog who needs to be protected and doesn't need this nonsense and a young adolescent pushing his luck, no matter how pleasant he is the rest of the time.
If you fix this issue now, there's less chance of having an absolute git of a three year old dog who has learned that he can bully others, including you, on any number of issues.
Dogs do what works for them/what's in their best interests, he's had 'success' or else he wouldn't do it again, so he needs to learn that nothing good comes from this behaviour.

 

[Shady]

Hard as it is, try and stop thinking of them as Jessie and Nicky but as an old dog who needs to be protected and doesn't need this nonsense and a young adolescent pushing his luck, no matter how pleasant he is the rest of the time.
If you fix this issue now, there's less chance of having an absolute git of a three year old dog who has learned that he can bully others, including you, on any number of issues.
Dogs do what works for them/what's in their best interests, he's had 'success' or else he wouldn't do it again, so he needs to learn that nothing good comes from this behaviour.

Thanks again CC.I am taking all this in, i promise you
He is really good with other dogs and no problem at all with strange dogs. I would go so far as to say i am surprised by this, his body language is excellent and he never bully's friends dogs.Iv'e taken him out with the chasse and he was great
However i hear exactly what you are saying and you are correct regarding Jessie
Thanks CC, X

 

[twiggy2]

You see I would go the opposite way.
It's natural that the younger dog that is getting stronger is going to challenge the older dog who is getting weaker over things they both feel are of high value, it's natural.
I would say you need to see it more as a natural progression and not humanise things by seeing your (much loved) older dog as being picked on. Maybe you are just seeing a moment in time where your older dog still feels strong enough to stand up to the younger dog, this will pass.
You say your older dog gets respect first, respect is not an emotion that dogs recognise and you may be clouding the water by doing this.
For me dogs do not fight/squabble or kick off around me-its not allowed, if something is dropped it's mine not theirs- they can't have what I drop unless I say they can, if they are in my space then they are expected to behave in all ways.
Apart from that they can organise who is who, if they fight rather than squabble then they are not out or loose together.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

Several years ago, when I had 2 Norwegian Buhunds, Nessie, and Humla(, and a Smooth Collie, Raya, which were between the Buhunds in age), it came a period when Nessie was getting old, but she was still convinced she was highest in rang, and Humla noticing that Nessie was getting older, wondered why her rang wasn't highest.

Normally when I accidentally drop something edible on the floor, my bitches have learnt that there is no point in trying to get it, because it is still mine. But one day, we were in the kitchen, something fell to the floor, and out of the blue, Nessie went for it, so Humla also tried to get it, and the situation just exploded.

I didn't say a word to Humla. I just "dived" down (probably growling), grabbed Nessie, threw her up on the kitchen table (tables are usually No go zones), opened the fridge, grabbed the first thing I got my hands on which happened to be a cheese, and started carving out chunks of cheese, and gave them to Nessie.
Humla jumped around a little on the floor, both trying to get my attention, and hoping to also get some cheese, but I ignored her completely (Raya also wondered a little if she might get some cheese, but I think I just ignored her, too). Once I felt certain on that Humla had so to say accepted that she was in the doghouse, I put away the cheese, took Nessie down from the table, and continued as if nothing had happened.

There had been a few small, incidents before that, but nothing happened again after that. Dogs are of course individuals, what worked for us might not work for others, but I have to say that being completely ignored, whilst the other one gets all the attention, can sometimes send a clearer message than being told off.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

I'm going to hazard a guess that Nickel has turned into asbo teenager. We had a mini rebellion with Jake and Brig at that age and re-started their training from scratch. I didn't neuter having done a lot of research, p#us their behaviour wasn't dominant, just rebellious.

The only Weims I've come across have been feisty swine, one took on each of mine in turn, idiot properly went for Brig who gave him a bloody good telling off.

One of the two types of chemical castration has indicators for increased risk of testicular cancer later in life, sorry, I don't remember which.

 

[Shady]

You see I would go the opposite way.
It's natural that the younger dog that is getting stronger is going to challenge the older dog who is getting weaker over things they both feel are of high value, it's natural.
I would say you need to see it more as a natural progression and not humanise things by seeing your (much loved) older dog as being picked on. Maybe you are just seeing a moment in time where your older dog still feels strong enough to stand up to the younger dog, this will pass.
You say your older dog gets respect first, respect is not an emotion that dogs recognise and you may be clouding the water by doing this.
For me dogs do not fight/squabble or kick off around me-its not allowed, if something is dropped it's mine not theirs- they can't have what I drop unless I say they can, if they are in my space then they are expected to behave in all ways.
Apart from that they can organise who is who, if they fight rather than squabble then they are not out or loose together.

I hear what you are saying Twiggy and if I drop anything it is mine not his, and i take anything from him including food if i want, i have done this since a pup.
IF i give them a treat which is not that often jess is first, always and at dinner time her bowl goes down first, then his across the room and i watch them, i always have and he is respectful as i said before. It is the random times that occur that i must deal with and not letting them out together would be my last recourse if i am honest as they enjoy total freedom here which most dogs never get. He has excellent recall and is not a problem at all in any other way.

I'm going to hazard a guess that Nickel has turned into asbo teenager. We had a mini rebellion with Jake and Brig at that age and re-started their training from scratch. I didn't neuter having done a lot of research, p#us their behaviour wasn't dominant, just rebellious.

The only Weims I've come across have been feisty swine, one took on each of mine in turn, idiot properly went for Brig who gave him a bloody good telling off.

CT
They are naturally feisty, strong willed, stubborn and difficult to train and many people don't have the patience for them or desire to put the work in or walk them enough but they are also one of the loveliest of breeds , very funny and loving.
I'm sure i will find a way through this and i value ALL of your comments

 

[SusieT]

castrate him. Youngish adult male showing aggressive tendancies in vertain situations doesn't need any excess testoserone stoking things

 

[skinnydipper]

Food aggression is not testosterone driven, gender specific or age related.

Simply, the aggressor wants the "prize".

I think this echoes what Twiggy has already said in post #2.

You are doing a stellar job of controlling mealtimes and treats. It is the unexpected "titbits" that are causing a problem and I don't know how you can plan for that.

For what it is worth, Shady, I would not have him castrated - his balls are not the problem.

I have nothing to add to the excellent advice already given by others.

I think you have Orientals. I used to have Siamese - seal points, lilac point and a Havana. They are highly intelligent and sensitive felines and as others have said they will be picking up bad vibes and reacting. (I am not a cat snob any more than I am a dog snob and have had wonderful moggies and currently have an offspring of farm cats).

BTW I have known some lovely Weimaraners. There is a Weim (I don't know his name) who is walked at the back of my garden who has to wear a muzzle, not because he is aggressive - far from it, but when he is out and about he eats whatever he can find! My Chloe used to flirt shamelessly with the lovely Merlin and we regularly bumped into Brian, a selectively deaf, harmless clown.

Best of luck. I hope you can find a solution. It would be a shame to separate them.

 

[Shady]

Food aggression is not testosterone driven, gender specific or age related.

Simply, the aggressor wants the "prize".

I think this echoes what Twiggy has already said in post #2.

You are doing a stellar job of controlling mealtimes and treats. It is the unexpected "titbits" that are causing a problem and I don't know how you can plan for that.

For what it is worth, Shady, I would not have him castrated - his balls are not the problem.

I have nothing to add to the excellent advice already given by others.

I think you have Orientals. I used to have Siamese - seal points, lilac point and a Havana. They are highly intelligent and sensitive felines and as others have said they will be picking up bad vibes and reacting. (I am not a cat snob any more than I am a dog snob and have had wonderful moggies and currently have an offspring of farm cats).

BTW I have known some lovely Weimaraners. There is a Weim (I don't know his name) who is walked at the back of my garden who has to wear a muzzle, not because he is aggressive - far from it, but when he is out and about he eats whatever he can find! My Chloe used to flirt shamelessly with the lovely Merlin and we regularly bumped into Brian, a selectively deaf, harmless clown.

Best of luck. I hope you can find a solution. It would be a shame to separate them.

Thank you SkinnyDipper
Can you believe it , it's not the Orientals but the laid back, super chilled Persians and the British Shorthair. Iv'e never even heard one of them spit in 6 years, the Orientals are like, urgh get away from us! The trouble with cats is that a breakdown in friendships can stay.

Iv'e taken everything that all of you have said on board and have looked at their relationship and my responsibilities. They are always together and always with me or my OH , work or home and at home they run free but never go far. There is nothing here, no roads or houses or livestock, just my one neighbour below.. I have called him off or back to me from everything up until this, even deer running past and iv'e been so pleased with him( still am, i adore them both).
However I found out an interesting thing today , and i'm pretty sure this has contributed or maybe caused the problem .
My one neighbour lives just below my land limit and we share the private lane to our houses.. It separates to each house and he walks up regularly with his dog for a cuppa, he's quite old and lives alone. The dogs get on really well, his is also entire. I saw him coming up the lane by chance and chuck something down for the dogs. Turns out he's been giving them treats and remarked on how fast Nickel is in getting them. I never give my dogs anything this way and i was really bloody angry as i have asked him never to feed them( he brought bones up once). It looks to me as if he has inadvertently created a nice bit of competition between them that has escalated.
Obviously i am now hoping i can sort this problem......

 

[MotherOfChickens]

well now you have a potential reason for the behaviour, you know what you are dealing with Shady! how annoying though, I hope you can sort it all out.

 

[Shady]

well now you have a potential reason for the behaviour, you know what you are dealing with Shady! how annoying though, I hope you can sort it all out.

Thanks MOC, I'm peed off about it but it's done now and i have a problem to sort that may or may not have happened anyway.
Weims by their very origin are complicated dogs. Bred to hunt and guard is not an easy combination. On the one hand you want them to go away and kill something, then come home and look after your house and we now want them to be a calm family dog above everything else and put all that nonsense away. They are born adorable, all they want is cuddles but then they look around and think, mmm, all this is mine, your job then is to claim it all back! I love them, they are so funny, they don't really want it all anyway but they are masters of exploitation and manipulation and you have to be one step ahead of their antics all the time , add all that mad Weim energy to the mix and it's like whoo hoo, never a dull moment!
One of the hardest things is that they can frustrate you so much that you lose your temper and that is fatal with this breed as they are sensitive and become fearful very easily. I see many , many here for re homing and i can almost guarantee that the owners are young and have stuck them in an apartment, not walked them, then yelled at them repeatedly for destructive behaviour .
Hey ho, i'll shut up now!! xxxx

 

[skinnydipper]

Ah, the neighbours. Tell me about it. I nearly told you about the bacon incident but did not think it relevant to your situation and my posts always end up like essays. But here goes.

For many years I had a minimum of 8 dogs (and 4 cats). As you know food can be a flashpoint in a multidog household and I had rules. Everyone had their own "place" to go to before I gave out the food, dogs had to stay at their place until everyone had finished eating, no-one was allowed to approach another's food dish. This was particularly important because I had Layla, the lurcher, and she would have eaten hers and everyone else's. She was abandoned by Travellers at about a year old. They all had to have their bum on the floor before any of them got a treat. It worked great. They never had a fight or scuffle about anything, food related or otherwise.

Until .... The neighbours. Stupid old farts.

I didn't realise I had a problem until one of the dogs vomited up the cartilage from a chicken breast - not fed to them by me.

My dogs have always had free access to the garden via a large dog flap.

Unbeknown to me, when their poodle died, they started throwing table scraps, presumably that they previously fed to their dog, over the fence. Anything - mouldy cheese, potato, bread, meat, you name it. I repeatedly asked them not to, I explained I would never feed stale or spoiled food to my dogs and did not want anyone else doing it, that Annie had multiple allergies (which incidentally included wheat, potato and chicken, pork), that it could lead to fighting over food. They knew better and carried on. (you couldn't tell him anything - he used to think that profoundly deaf Nina was just making it up - he used to try blowing a whistle behind her or clapping and banging - God!)

The bacon incident was the last straw as far as I was concerned. The only time one of my dogs went for another was when he threw a piece of bacon over the fence. Little Ben, the JRT, was bitten on the head by Layla. I can't tell you how angry I was, they certainly sat up and took notice then (the neighbours that is, I have infinite patience with dogs but people, not so much).

This is keeping me occupied while the big lad is at the vets so I will continue rambling.

When I had multiple dogs people tried to give me more. I was offered a Springer which had been bought as the consolation prize for a child whose father had left home - adolescent, not house trained or any sort of trained. A bloke asked me to take his Dalmation that a girlfriend had bought him and he didn't want a dog. Somebody asked me to give their elderly whippet a home, they had had the house refurbished and I don't think she matched the decoration, I did take her and went up to 9 dogs for the short time she was with me. But the one you may be interested in was the Sainsbury's dog.

When I was in Sainsburys a pet insurance rep tried to sell me insurance and I explained I couldn't afford it for 8 dogs. She recognised a mug when she saw one and tried to give me one of her Weimaraners. She had bought 2 pups and they were now adolescent and she was not coping

Still waiting for the vets to ring. They must have given him enough anaesthetic to knock out an elephant.

Home now. I'll give you some respite.

I hope you don't get to the point where you feel like shaking your neighbour until his teeth rattle

 

[Pinkvboots]

Bloody neighbours so glad I don't have really close ones I don't think I could cope having 6 years without.

I really hope you can put it right Shady it really does sound like the neighbour giving them treats could be the problem, I would just be honest and tell him its upset the dogs and the cats social balance and say it needs to stop, maybe suggest he keeps the treats for you to give to them I know it's difficult some people are natural feeders, I know my mil is one I try not to think about what she gives our dog when she is there, all I know is her belly is huge and she has no interest in her dinner.

 

[Shady]

Ah, the neighbours. Tell me about it. I nearly told you about the bacon incident but did not think it relevant to your situation and my posts always end up like essays. But here goes.

For many years I had a minimum of 8 dogs (and 4 cats). As you know food can be a flashpoint in a multidog household and I had rules. Everyone had their own "place" to go to before I gave out the food, dogs had to stay at their place until everyone had finished eating, no-one was allowed to approach another's food dish. This was particularly important because I had Layla, the lurcher, and she would have eaten hers and everyone else's. She was abandoned by Travellers at about a year old. They all had to have their bum on the floor before any of them got a treat. It worked great. They never had a fight or scuffle about anything, food related or otherwise.

Until .... The neighbours. Stupid old farts.

I didn't realise I had a problem until one of the dogs vomited up the cartilage from a chicken breast - not fed to them by me.

My dogs have always had free access to the garden via a large dog flap.

Unbeknown to me, when their poodle died, they started throwing table scraps, presumably that they previously fed to their dog, over the fence. Anything - mouldy cheese, potato, bread, meat, you name it. I repeatedly asked them not to, I explained I would never feed stale or spoiled food to my dogs and did not want anyone else doing it, that Annie had multiple allergies (which incidentally included wheat, potato and chicken, pork), that it could lead to fighting over food. They knew better and carried on. (you couldn't tell him anything - he used to think that profoundly deaf Nina was just making it up - he used to try blowing a whistle behind her or clapping and banging - God!)

The bacon incident was the last straw as far as I was concerned. The only time one of my dogs went for another was when he threw a piece of bacon over the fence. Little Ben, the JRT, was bitten on the head by Layla. I can't tell you how angry I was, they certainly sat up and took notice then (the neighbours that is, I have infinite patience with dogs but people, not so much).

This is keeping me occupied while the big lad is at the vets so I will continue rambling.

When I had multiple dogs people tried to give me more. I was offered a Springer which had been bought as the consolation prize for a child whose father had left home - adolescent, not house trained or any sort of trained. A bloke asked me to take his Dalmation that a girlfriend had bought him and he didn't want a dog. Somebody asked me to give their elderly whippet a home, they had had the house refurbished and I don't think she matched the decoration, I did take her and went up to 9 dogs for the short time she was with me. But the one you may be interested in was the Sainsbury's dog.

When I was in Sainsburys a pet insurance rep tried to sell me insurance and I explained I couldn't afford it for 8 dogs. She recognised a mug when she saw one and tried to give me one of her Weimaraners. She had bought 2 pups and they were now adolescent and she was not coping

Still waiting for the vets to ring. They must have given him enough anaesthetic to knock out an elephant.

Home now. I'll give you some respite.

I hope you don't get to the point where you feel like shaking your neighbour until his teeth rattle

Wow SD,shit,those neighbours were worse than mine!. I lived on an old peoples bungalow estate for a year and the lovely old biddy next to me used to throw her roasted joint or chicken carcass remains out for my cats... que vet visits for bones in throat....
I can only imagine that poor woman's daily hell having 2 out of control young Weims ! No decent breeder would ever sell 2 pups unless to a VERY experienced owner. They are just too much .
I hope everything is ok with your dog?
I enjoyed reading your rambling! it sounds like you have a busy life, a big heart and a lot of experience. xx

 

[skinnydipper]

Thank you for asking after the big lad.

Due to his multiple allergies venison is one of the few foods he can eat and his evening treat was roasted venison strips. Last week when eating his treats he managed to break both carnassial teeth (these are the biggest molars in the top jaw) and exposed the pulp on both teeth - I couldn't flaming believe it - what were the chances of that happening? Another trip to the vets. They couldn't fit him in on Friday's list (2 hour op) so he was booked in for Monday. It was brutal surgery. Poor soul.

Rotten teeth could have been pulled out but because the teeth were not decayed they were hard to extract. He had to have gingival flaps (the gums were cut and folded back), the jaw bone had to be drilled with a burr to expose the roots and enable the teeth be extracted, then he had his gums sutured.

Because the bone has been cut in 2 places it has left his jaw in a fragile state. It takes about 6 weeks for the bone to grow back in.

I just hope it all heals with no problems.

I was proud of his beautifully clean pearlies but I think his poor early nutrition (when he came to me at 18 months he was 10 kg underweight) has affected the quality of his teeth. No more venison strips for him.

 

[Shady]

Thank you for asking after the big lad.

Due to his multiple allergies venison is one of the few foods he can eat and his evening treat was roasted venison strips. Last week when eating his treats he managed to break both carnassial teeth (these are the biggest molars in the top jaw) and exposed the pulp on both teeth - I couldn't flaming believe it - what were the chances of that happening? Another trip to the vets. They couldn't fit him in on Friday's list (2 hour op) so he was booked in for Monday. It was brutal surgery. Poor soul.

Rotten teeth could have been pulled out but because the teeth were not decayed they were hard to extract. He had to have gingival flaps (the gums were cut and folded back), the jaw bone had to be drilled with a burr to expose the roots and enable the teeth be extracted, then he had his gums sutured.

Because the bone has been cut in 2 places it has left his jaw in a fragile state. It takes about 6 weeks for the bone to grow back in.

I just hope it all heals with no problems.

I was proud of his beautifully clean pearlies but I think his poor early nutrition (when he came to me at 18 months he was 10 kg underweight) has affected the quality of his teeth. No more venison strips for him.

OMG SD
I don't know what to say, the poor lad, i do hope he will be ok.
Iv'e had cats come in minus a front canine and thought , how the hell did you do that but the dogs seem to have all their teeth at the moment. I can't give them bones or big teeth chews because Jess gets really stressed and wants to bury hers and then won't settle and keeps going out and moving it! I also don't really like bones around the cats as i'm not convinced it's a good idea.
Fingers crossed all will be well for your dog, things are calm here again .... for the moment
xx