Rearing up when on our own

[olderthanshelooks]

My mare has recently taken to rearing up when we leave the others at the end of the day and if we have to stand on our own. She has always been a nappy old creature but has only ever dug her feet in before and not moved this rrearing up has only occured in the last month.
All the time that we are with the others she is absolutely fine. Not an enjoyable experience at the end of the day when I am trying to go back to my box.

She never does this when out hacking.

Any suggestions please os what I can do to stop this would be greatfully appreciated.

 

[Suziq77]

Without seeing it it's hard to give a definite answer but when I find myself on a "nappy" rearer I employ the good old method of turning their head onto your knee (right round, not a half hearted tug) accompanied by a strong leg aid - until they move. Keep a contact on the reins, don't drop them as this actually seems to encourage some horses to go up again. If their neck is bent then they shouldn't be able to balance themselves to go up to any real height.

I also find that growling "get on with you" or similar can help too and with mares I find you really have to visualise that this is definitely going to work as if you're half hearted about it they'll sniff you out a mile off...

 

[TwoPair]

Agree with Suziq you cannot be half hearted with horses like this. Keeping forward with a good neck bend is a good way of preventing the balance needed. I hate the things with a passion but would a standing martingale help? In the sense she couldn't get her head right up...I dislike rearers with a passion and I think it also depends on your sense of a 'rear' - are we talking bolt upright or a 'bounce'?

 

[olderthanshelooks]

She goes up and spins round, they start of small and get bigger and bigger. I normally sit it out until the others are out of hearing distance but yesterday the road was wet and slippery so I made the choice to get off and lead her as I thought it was an accident waiting to happen. She led away fine, without any arguments, when the others were out of ear shot I got back on and hacked back to my box no problems at all.

Thanks for your advice I will give it ago next time. The strong leg aid may be bit of a problem though as she doesn't listen at the best of times. (Ex-trekking pony says it all!!

 

[TwoPair]

Not practical out hunting but there is the old horsemans cure of cracking an egg on the poll when the horse goes up. Theory being that the horse thinks it's hit his head and is bleeding.

 

[olderthanshelooks]

She only does it out hunting so the egg isn't really an option. would be quite an interesting challenge trying to carry an egg all day without breaking though!!

Must admit did lose my temper and hit her on top of head with my crop as a last resort. Don't think she even realised I had done it as there was no reaction what so ever.

 

[Luci07]

You said you stood still? Then moved away is that right? Could you just keep your mare moving off and moving forward when saying goodbye. I.e do not ask her to stand still? My old mare would rear out hunting if i asked her to stand still while others were moving away so I kept her going. She would also rear in the start box when eventing when
asking her to stand for countdown so again I had to keep her walking on a long rein and only pick up in 3 2 1

Should also say she never did it out hacking or at any other time!

 

[olderthanshelooks]

Hi Luci07, Should've when I leave at the end of the day i.e yesterday there was a group of us hacking back then they went off 1 way and I needed to go another tried to carry on walking but she just stops and goes up.

Standing still when we are spread out round a cover.

 

[Shanta]

Hi there, sorry to hear about your problem. My young mare took to doing this on the ground recently - "a branded pressure halter" is sorting her out. I was told that if you hit them/break an egg on the poll it just makes them go higher waiting for the impact! I once saw a programme where the rider used a soft rope with a knot in the end, and as the horse went up, he swung it under its tummy. The horse suddenly realised it could be a predator, and that it was revealing its most vulnerable area. It soon learnt! Hope this helps...

 

[Luci07]

Hi Luci07, Should've when I leave at the end of the day i.e yesterday there was a group of us hacking back then they went off 1 way and I needed to go another tried to carry on walking but she just stops and goes up.

Standing still when we are spread out round a cover.

I am not sure it is a "normal" rearing issue just as my mares wasn't normal. So, when you need to move away from the others, perhaps ask them to go into trot and then move away when you are in pace - or better still, have someone come with you. At the coverts, try walking her around - which I appreciate is painful if you are there for a while. With my mare it really was a case of over excitement and the fact that she wanted to get going. It was not a normal behaviour so dont see how I could ever have trained her out of it. Thank heavens that I has the good fortune to be started by the very kind Mr Bill Allen who told me how to manage my mare the first time she did it at Stilemans!

 

[olderthanshelooks]

It's pure ignorance on the mares part. Always has been and always will be. At 18 1/2 I don't think I will ever cure the ignorance.

But I will win this one just like I have won when it comes to loading, and standing for the farrier

Thanks for the advice, I will try the turning head into my knee tomorrow and see how we go. Apart from the rearing she is a cracking little hunter otherwise.

 

[Luci07]

Can you post an update? And good luck. I can't claim to have real experience of readers as when my mare did it it really was due to excitement. Tbh if my mare could have gone off Xcode or hunting without me she would have! I put up with it as she was brilliant and really safe once we got going

 

[maggiesmum]

Firstly - I can't believe people are still suggesting cracking an egg on a horses head, i'm pretty sure horses aren't stupid and know the difference between their own blood and an egg! Not to mention how outdated and ridiculous it is!

It might sound 'uncool' and like giving in but you've already found a way to break the behaviour - "She led away fine, without any arguments, when the others were out of ear shot I got back on and hacked back to my box no problems at all." By doing this you got her feet and mind moving forwards hence she settled and you jumped back on, she wants to follow the others by getting off you're asking her to follow you instead which she willingly did.
Horses don;t see it as ahh but I won because she had to get off, they only see whether they carried out the action they were asked to do or not - you asked her to move away from the others and she did.
If you jumped off at the very beginning of the nap and got her feet moving straight away you might well start to break the connection between leaving and rearing / napping.

 

[TwoPair]

Maggiesmum if you read my post I said it was an old horsemans trick so I have acknowledged its old school. However having had it work on one, I'll reserve judgement on your stupidity comment.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Firstly - I can't believe people are still suggesting cracking an egg on a horses head, i'm pretty sure horses aren't stupid and know the difference between their own blood and an egg! Not to mention how outdated and ridiculous it is!

It might sound 'uncool' and like giving in but you've already found a way to break the behaviour - "She led away fine, without any arguments, when the others were out of ear shot I got back on and hacked back to my box no problems at all." By doing this you got her feet and mind moving forwards hence she settled and you jumped back on, she wants to follow the others by getting off you're asking her to follow you instead which she willingly did.
Horses don;t see it as ahh but I won because she had to get off, they only see whether they carried out the action they were asked to do or not - you asked her to move away from the others and she did.
If you jumped off at the very beginning of the nap and got her feet moving straight away you might well start to break the connection between leaving and rearing / napping.

Agree with this! Mine's a darling 99% of the time BUT has got a helluva rear in him (also an ex-trekker, so wonder where the hell he learnt it). I've had some help with him from my trainer, who basically says what's being said here, that as herd leader you have GOT to keep the feet moving coz the one who controls the movement of the horse's feet should be herd leader and not the horse! We've employed the trick of "head to knee" - and it does the job of keeping the horse moving rather than have it static - but its no good being "nice" about it, you really have the pull the head around till the horse is uncomfortable; then it will learn that even the thought of rearing, just doesn't pay.

So...... whether you're on top or on the ground - I think you have to get away from the attitude of "stay on top at all costs" - its really all about whether YOU as herd leader are controlling the horse's feet and the direction in which he goes, and if you can achieve this better on the ground without having a big show-down, then that surely is the way to go.

I do feel you may benefit from some skilled help though; if I hadn't had someone experienced come alongside and help me with my boy I have a suspicion he'd be lining a tin of dog food by now.

Personally I've always found Michael Peace's philosophy very helpful; and although I know he's expensive you might find some of his books/DVD's etc useful.

If you can find an Intelligent Horsemanship, or Positive Horsemanship practitioner in your area, IME they're very good. Personally wouldn't recommend Parelli but that's just me.

 

[olderthanshelooks]

Thank you everyone, will take all your advice on board and believe me I am going to win this one she isn't going to get away with it!

Will try head to knee and if it doesn't work I shall get off and lead again.

Will update after tomorrow.

 

[olderthanshelooks]

Well didn't get to try anything yesterday.
Another horse lost a shoe so hacked back to it's yard, then I carried ontowards my trailer, could see 2 more horses in front so no arguments when leaving the other horse. Caught up with the other 2 and hacked with them until I got to my trailer, stopped, jumped off, tied up no arguments at all.
The fact that we had a good long gallop up a rather steep hill not long before as hounds were running may of had something to do with it! (Hills aren't our strong point)
So a more positive end of the day, but will definately keep all your advice in mind for any other episodes.
many thanks

 

[padderpaws]

I have a nappy horse that has reared in the past (very high too) and I agree with the head to knee and get them moving round. Also getting off and leading past somethings. BUT you should see the looks of horror at treating a horse in such a way and my god if you get off, well, what a whus you are now your horse has totally won. Drives me insane. It's funny though cause no one has ever offered to show me how it's done or offered any help other than to say "bloody well whack it one" which when I did that was when he reared big time.

 

[4x4]

IMHO if you can get to where you want to go regardless of whether you had to get off or not you have won the battle - the only rule I follow with nappy/rearers etc. is never let them go back the way they came, even if you only go round the block when you have a problem. Sounds as if you're winning tho'. Good luck.

 

[PennyJ]

It's pure ignorance on the mares part. Always has been and always will be. At 18 1/2 I don't think I will ever cure the ignorance.

But I will win this one just like I have won when it comes to loading, and standing for the farrier

Thanks for the advice, I will try the turning head into my knee tomorrow and see how we go. Apart from the rearing she is a cracking little hunter otherwise.

We have one who has this oafish streak too, who recently started going up out hacking for no particularly good reason, other than being asked to stand when he didn't feel like it - road junctions etc etc. Rather scary and puzzling to deal with as no obvious trigger cause. We introduced Calm and Condition to his feed and it has stopped. Couldn't possibly say if the 2 events are linked or not, but we are breathing a big sigh of relief... and hoping he doesn't start it again.

Just bad manners I would say and you need to be super strict and really mean it when you tell her off like one of the posters above says. Our boy hates being told off, which may have helped break the habit.

 

[olderthanshelooks]

It is very bad manners and unfortunately I tell her off and she doesn't take the slightest bit of notice. Sure others will disagree but I'm convinced it's coz she spent the first 5/6 years of her life as a trekker so never had a consistenent rider until me.

As with people giving funny looks, she didn't load. (previous owners beat her to get her in). Have lots of patience and a few tears and running round the lanes trying to catch her, she now goes in 9 times out of 10 but not in the conventional way! I have to leave her tied to back of the trailer, put the ramp down and as she starts to walk in untie her. If I try to lead up with the ramp already down, she turns and runs! I get people give me funny looks when they see me loading and used to get even funnier ones when I used to load with a lunge line wrapped round the breast bar and attached to horse, so that she couldn't go any where. I had to prove I was stronger than she was and eventually she would walk in without to much fuss. IMO if it works for you, whether the conventional way or not, who cares what other people think.

 

[Dovorian]

I used to load mine with the lunge line round the breast bar, attached to a lunge cavesson, if he walked up then fine, but if not I could get behind him. Tactics evolved thru need as I often left a meet early as had small person on an 11.2 with me! Efficiency and efficacy were essential. Nothing wrong with that imho.

 

[FleabittenT]

We have a nappy old mare who sounds very similar to yours - if she wasn't so good at her job, she'd have been long gone!

It certainly rings a bell when you say "I had to prove I was stronger than she was and eventually she would walk in without to much fuss" - the same applies to my mare, I just have to insist she goes forward until she gives in. Perhaps the same could apply here?

The trick for me is my mindset - all movement is good, I just to need to translate up and backward energy into forward energy, and get her feet moving. I know it sounds simplistic, but I throw the reins at her, kick on (pony-club style ) and back it up with my voice and behind my leg with my stick until she moves on.

Keeping a contact just sends her higher. Turning her on a tight circle doesn't work - she'll go up again as soon as she's straight. Insisting she goes forward and pushing through is the only way.

Luckily, her episodes are much reduced these days. It was a deeply ingrained habit when we acquired her from her previous owner. We have had a million and one investigations to rule out a physical cause, but she's a smart, stubborn mare, and we have concluded it was a learned avoidance technique. Rearing = rider off, returned to her stable with a big net of hay and no work today.

I hope you find a solution, it's certainly not a lot of fun