Reasonable gap between phases at a combined training?

[Jango]

I've gone out today to do a combined training and we were only given 25mins between Dr and SJ. Then shouted at by the warmup steward and then again over the tannoy, when myself and another competitor were 5 mins late to jump. I think get back to your lorry, change tack, add boots, change own gear, get to the warm up and actually warm up 25 mins just isn't enough and it was badly scheduled? I also popped into the indoor where the jumping was being held to visualise the course (I had walked pre-dr but my memory is dire!). My dad was with me but he isn't horsey, so I had to do everything. Or am I too slow and everyone else manages this? It's completely put me off this venue tbh. For anyone whose done BD combined training is there a minimum time?

 

[Red-1]

Not combined training, but have done BE dressage to SJ with half an hour, and loads of distance to cover between the two.

I just put studs in for SJ before dressage, walked the course before dressage and had my kit all lined up. I lashed the horse to the lorry, so no loading and unloading, boots on, swap saddle, on and away.

 

[iknowmyvalue]

It’s frustrating but doable IF the dressage is running to time. Would be helpful if they scheduled a little bit further apart. To be honest, most of the CTs I’ve been to have been timed for dressage but putting numbers down to jump, or at least a guide time for SJ but not too strict (which I think is better)

 

[Roxylola]

I prefer a short gap, I've done the bulk of my warm up for dressage so couple of fences should be enough (hopefully). If I was super worried I'd dressage in my jump saddle.
I appreciate wanting to double check the course again but that's a luxury if there is time imo.
I'd agree the venue could perhaps have been a bit nicer by the sound of it though

 

[criso]

I'm probably the opposite. I don't have a dressage saddle so no change of tack needed and I wear the same. I sometimes but not always put boots on, poles are so light these days. If I have someone with me they'll put the boots on so I don't even dismount I treat the dressage as a warm up so all I need to do is shorten my stirrups, pop a couple of fences and I'm probably there within 10 minutes. I always think it's less work for the horse to keep going rather than cool down and warm up again


My local venue says present within 20 minutes but I've seen them be quite forgiving if people take longer. However it can also be frustrating to be ready to jump but you can't because people from the last class haven't turned up on time and the course is at the wrong height.

Could you at least save a bit by having your gear ready with your dad by the warmup so at least you don't need to go back to the lorry.

 

[ihatework]

As long as the parking and arenas aren’t miles apart then I think 25 mins should be just doable if a little tight. I’d prob expect a minimum of 30 mins, I have a feeling that is the min at BE

 

[Leandy]

I'm going to say I think that 25 mins is fine unless everything is miles apart. If you have just done your dressage you are warmed up anyway and just need to pop a few practice fences which wouldn't take longer than 10 mins in the jumping warm up. So I'd say 15 mins to change any tack you want to, add boots etc and 10 mins to pop a few fences is fine. A lot of people don't use a dressage saddle for CT so tack changes are quite swift. The rider can easily dressage and SJ in the same gear especially if time is tight. A (major) venue local to us just gives times for the dressage and then you can go and change tack if needed, show up at the SJ arena, warm up by jumping the first few fences as many times as you like and then do the full course. People just tend to go straight from dressage and onto the SJ with minimal time in between and I haven't seen anyone feel the need for more than five minutes or so to pop the practice fences even though there is no formal time limit. Were you at the end of the class? Is that why they were chasing you? You need to check the course before the dressage or from the SJ collecting ring when onboard if not time in between I'm afraid. That said, the venue should be welcoming and polite and everywhere I have been has been pretty accommodating on SJ times, after all if you showed up for the dressage, you are not likely not to show up for the SJ.

 

[sportsmansB]

It does seem a bit harsh that they were shouting for you given that they must have known the timings could have been tight - however 25 mins should really be enough when you are already warmed up on the flat, provided you are organised and have any changes of gear etc set out before you go to dressage.
I would want to watch the course one more time too probably as I get terrible fear that I'll forget it, but maybe that was the luxury that you just didn't have time for.
You'll know for again!
I remember doing 2 dressage tests in one day which were meant to have 45 mins between them, only the first arena was running late so when I came out I basically needed to go straight into arena 2 but hadn't learnt the second test properly at all as I thought I would have loads of time. Lesson learned!

 

[Nicnac]

Depends. If your dressage start time and SJ start times were 25 minutes apart then it's really tight as less than 20 mins btw end of dressage and SJ start. If 25 mins btw end of dsg and sj then doable. Why do you need to get yourself changed? Can understand a helper would have been really useful!

 

[Jango]

Thanks everyone! Good to hear everyone's perspectives. So actually nicnac raises a really good point, my times were 12.15 and 12.40, so I hadn't accounted for the time doing the dressage in my OP, so I actually only had 20mins gap! The way the venue is you can't see the course from the collecting ring (I tried to visualise it and just couldn't remember it all at, hence dashing in to remind myself). My dad is lovely and it's nice to have company (I don't usually) but he couldn't do something like change boots. He's pretty dopey ? I needed to swap into a back number from a bridle number (venue asked for back numbers for jumping), so get off, take hat off etc, take my spurs off, change whip. Plus change of my horses gear. I need 10mins to warm up to jump, which I don't think is unreasonable. My horse isn't the most forward thinking and after any break (even a long rein and a walk) she needs a bit of a reminder to get going again! I probably walked a few mins, then I do some walk/canter trans, then I jumped 4/5 fences.

Ultimately I just won't bother doing combined training there again. It's so annoying as it's such a good venue from a location and facilities perspective. But it's always badly organised and now if they are going to be rude over being 5 mins late for jumping I'll just go elsewhere or just SJ and Dr at different venues for the winter. It's unaff and it's supposed to be enjoyable and it just won't be for me if I'm rushed/being yelled at! They didn't have many entries, so I am tempted to feedback to them with an anonymous email that maybe they would have more entries if they ran things a bit better!

 

[LEC]

I am tempted to feedback to them with an anonymous email that maybe they would have more entries if they ran things a bit better!

or just send an email saying you loved it but found times a bit tight and 30 -40 mins would be awesome and make the whole thing less stressful

 

[sport horse]

Thanks everyone! Good to hear everyone's perspectives. So actually nicnac raises a really good point, my times were 12.15 and 12.40, so I hadn't accounted for the time doing the dressage in my OP, so I actually only had 20mins gap! The way the venue is you can't see the course from the collecting ring (I tried to visualise it and just couldn't remember it all at, hence dashing in to remind myself). My dad is lovely and it's nice to have company (I don't usually) but he couldn't do something like change boots. He's pretty dopey ? I needed to swap into a back number from a bridle number (venue asked for back numbers for jumping), so get off, take hat off etc, take my spurs off, change whip. Plus change of my horses gear. I need 10mins to warm up to jump, which I don't think is unreasonable. My horse isn't the most forward thinking and after any break (even a long rein and a walk) she needs a bit of a reminder to get going again! I probably walked a few mins, then I do some walk/canter trans, then I jumped 4/5 fences.

Ultimately I just won't bother doing combined training there again. It's so annoying as it's such a good venue from a location and facilities perspective. But it's always badly organised and now if they are going to be rude over being 5 mins late for jumping I'll just go elsewhere or just SJ and Dr at different venues for the winter. It's unaff and it's supposed to be enjoyable and it just won't be for me if I'm rushed/being yelled at! They didn't have many entries, so I am tempted to feedback to them with an anonymous email that maybe they would have more entries if they ran things a bit better!

You could try asking for a minimum time between the phases when you entr, as you travel alone and have a tack change. If they then do not accommodate you then yes, walk away. Give them a chance first? The times are probably done by a Secretary and they can be guilty of not 'thinking'.

 

[Roxylola]

Thanks everyone! Good to hear everyone's perspectives. So actually nicnac raises a really good point, my times were 12.15 and 12.40, so I hadn't accounted for the time doing the dressage in my OP, so I actually only had 20mins gap! The way the venue is you can't see the course from the collecting ring (I tried to visualise it and just couldn't remember it all at, hence dashing in to remind myself). My dad is lovely and it's nice to have company (I don't usually) but he couldn't do something like change boots. He's pretty dopey ? I needed to swap into a back number from a bridle number (venue asked for back numbers for jumping), so get off, take hat off etc, take my spurs off, change whip. Plus change of my horses gear. I need 10mins to warm up to jump, which I don't think is unreasonable. My horse isn't the most forward thinking and after any break (even a long rein and a walk) she needs a bit of a reminder to get going again! I probably walked a few mins, then I do some walk/canter trans, then I jumped 4/5 fences.

Ultimately I just won't bother doing combined training there again. It's so annoying as it's such a good venue from a location and facilities perspective. But it's always badly organised and now if they are going to be rude over being 5 mins late for jumping I'll just go elsewhere or just SJ and Dr at different venues for the winter. It's unaff and it's supposed to be enjoyable and it just won't be for me if I'm rushed/being yelled at! They didn't have many entries, so I am tempted to feedback to them with an anonymous email that maybe they would have more entries if they ran things a bit better!

I think there's fault on both sides, you could wear a back number throughout for instance.
However, if its the venue I think it could be (North west and was running unaffiliated CT ) they can be a bit like that and wont give a fig for feedback unfortunately.
I wouldn't write off CT I general though - just maybe ask for at least 45 mins if possible between your times if you find that is best for you when you do your entries

 

[Ossy2]

If the the venue I’m thinking of again North west I’m sure they mentioned on their FB that there wasn’t enough entries really for it to be worth running but were going to honour this one and next one and rethink continuing. Maybe there wasn’t enough entries to give you longer between disciplines, I know 5 mins late doesn’t seem much and there’s no excuse for rudeness but if everyone decides to be 5 mins late it’s very easy for the venue to find themselves running half hour or so late then you get the other side of it when competitors turn up ready to jump to be told they have another half hour to wait past their allocated time and you can be sure the venue would be to blame.
I’ve had with dressage there too when I had two different horses in consequent classes but with only 5 in each the most I got was 50 mins between to deposit one back to wagon get into the other one and warm that one up for test. It wasn’t the venues fault they had me first in and then last in, it’s just how it goes sometimes

 

[Velcrobum]

If the the venue I’m thinking of again North west I’m sure they mentioned on their FB that there wasn’t enough entries really for it to be worth running but were going to honour this one and next one and rethink continuing. Maybe there wasn’t enough entries to give you longer between disciplines, I know 5 mins late doesn’t seem much and there’s no excuse for rudeness but if everyone decides to be 5 mins late it’s very easy for the venue to find themselves running half hour or so late then you get the other side of it when competitors turn up ready to jump to be told they have another half hour to wait past their allocated time and you can be sure the venue would be to blame.
I’ve had with dressage there too when I had two different horses in consequent classes but with only 5 in each the most I got was 50 mins between to deposit one back to wagon get into the other one and warm that one up for test. It wasn’t the venues fault they had me first in and then last in, it’s just how it goes sometimes

Exactly it is what it is sometimes. Bottom line a venue cannot please everyone!!

 

[Jango]

Thanks for the couple of people that mentioned, that's a good idea, if I do any combined training elsewhere I'll ask for 30 mins plus as I think that's fine for time. I'd honestly rather not go if they can't offer that.

It is the venue in the NW you are thinking of Roxylola! It's such a shame they are a pain to deal with as it's so convenient for me. As I sometimes need to go there (qualifiers etc) I don't want to give my name to any feedback as they are known to be difficult. That's why I was thinking anonymous. But places like kelsall/somerford/Alsager/reaseheath are just so much better run and it makes for a better day. Lesson learnt, request longer and avoid that venue if possible

IMO they didn't have many entries as they run the trailblazers heights which are weird. It suited me to do a Nov 75cm yesterday as it was our first novice and I wanted an easy jump. But typically I think people want prelim or intro 65 and prelim 75, then novice 85.

 

[criso]

Our local venue run trailblazers but also other classes where you can pyo tests with a height plus Bluechip which is 70cm with a prelim.

As I said they ask you to present for the jumping within 20 minutes though they are nicer about it than your venue.

I've done 2 classes before and wouldn't want to be hanging around so 20 minutes suits me fine. I'd be less likely to go if it was a big gap.

Another venue did arena eventing and it was pretty much the same though they had a jumping between certain times so if you had an early dressage time and went at the end of the jumping, you could buy yourself more time.

They both run quite alot of heights from 50cm to 110cm so need to get through people quickly.

 

[DressageCob]

I don't use boots so 20 minutes would be fine for me (especially if I wore a number bib the whole time like I would for eventing).

I wish more places did a PYO test. I wouldn't want to be doing a prelim test (for fear of being accused of pot hunting) but the medium is normally with a 90, 95 or 100 and I would rather jump 80cm max ?

that said I'm strictly a dressage girl at the moment so I don't have a problem ?

 

[Goldenstar]

Twenty minutes is too short a gap.

 

[criso]

I don't use boots so 20 minutes would be fine for me (especially if I wore a number bib the whole time like I would for eventing).

I wish more places did a PYO test. I wouldn't want to be doing a prelim test (for fear of being accused of pot hunting) but the medium is normally with a 90, 95 or 100 and I would rather jump 80cm max ?

that said I'm strictly a dressage girl at the moment so I don't have a problem ?

I'm the opposite, I ended up doing a novice test my horse wasn't ready for because I wanted to jump 75cm

 

[MagicMelon]

I think sometimes venues forget some riders are there on their own, so cant for example have their groom take the horse off to get it ready while you walk the SJ course etc. Ive been to things on my own and if my "groom" comes then they're usually babysitting my kids so am still on my own ultimately. I think its doable if you prepared beforehand, like you could put your change of clothes/tack by the arena? I probably would have just dressed in a manner that covered both phases and pretty much got off after dressage and hung about for the SJ. I know its more of a faff though if you need to change bits etc.