Recall training - what works and what doesn't?

[Brownmare]

All in the title really. I'm busy rereading all my dog training books etc to remind me what I'm supposed to be doing in preparation for Dash coming. His particular issue is recall so I'd love any tips etc particularly any relating to sighthound breeds (we all know they are 'special' )

Obviously there is all the general stuff like building a good relationship and giving plenty of exercise etc but if anyone has any trade secrets please tell

 

[CAYLA]

I would always say, bonding with the dog for a good few weeks, in that time obviously find out what the paticular dog likes, treats, toys, I must say as much as I say this I have never really trained any of mine with these but they are good aids for a dog that maybe shows little interest in it's human, games of hide and seek are a huge favourite with my dogs, this actually has gotten to the point they are consciously looking for us all the time, even with new dog we have trained for others, I had found a very interesting link between the owners walking the dog (one in particular) was a doberman, the owners where very well boring they hardly interacted with the dog at all, and as a result she found very little interest in them, where as when we took her on, we kept her on her lead a good 4 weeks (they where very inpatient with keeping her on lead), and we initiated lots of play and rough and tumble, OH especially as he spent alot more time with her, he would chase her, hide from her, and in doing so he also introduced a frizby (which the owners said she had no interest in) im thinking maybe because they jsut flung it and expected her to catch and fetch, instead of tugging it with her and swinging her about which she loved and proceeded to actually bring it back, I think play and time spent having fun definately sets a bond.

Obviously with sight hounds you also have to be aware of moving objects in the distance so longlining at first is always advisable and using treats and play can allow you gage their attention span when rewards are offered aswell as when they are not, sometimes to simply keep an eye on your sorrounding and recall to place back on lead is a must for some, I have 2 of my own dogs that took a little time with recall and as they where neither playful, liked treats or toys, one wanted to hunt birds and the other to hunt dogs I used reprimand with the lurcher at point of focus (and it does work, as not all dogs find anyone thing more interesting than what they desire) sometimes it's a basic avoidance of reprimand that keeps them focused, now if she sees a dog in the distance she will looks straight at us, and simply put her head down and carry on walking, before she was off like a bloody thirsty beast and the pointer was more a game of witts, he was allowed to get so far then he was recalled and placed on lead, this would be repeated 50 times a walk if need be, in his previous home he was let off to run from sight, to which he would ignore recall altogether, now he never know when he will be called 1 foot away, 2 feet away or 10 metres away, he basically focuses on us all the times, both of the dogs now have fantastic recall and both where destined for a yellow bag because of their lack of it, which the owners blamed on the dog, neither listened when a longline was mentioned (both dogs where on a longline with me, after their first non responsive recall) for a good month for the lurcher and a good 6 months for the pointer), they basically said, (thats not fair, they need exercise) now they get it in abundance and at one time they spent all of months on it, for a life time of freedom, some folk are strange

Also just general recall indoors and in the garden with lots of fun involved and start without to much sorrounding disturbance to better aid you for when their is to much to focus on and never be in to much of a hurry to to let them off without these basics covered.

 

[blackcob]

In my experience of training a 'special' dog...

- Train on an empty stomach using high-value food like chicken or sausages

- Long lines are absolutely essential for transferring from a sterile environment to one with many distractions, so you can stomp on them when the dog inevitably makes a beeline for that other really interesting dog/squirrel/picnic

- Only call them back if you really mean it. If you call and they don't come, reel them in immediately with the long line. Every time you call and they don't come, and are able to keep away from you because there's no line, you're reinforcing the fact that there's a choice in the matter

- Don't set yourself up for failure. If they're so intently focussed on something else that you know they won't come if you call, don't bother! Again you're just reinforcing that there's a choice involved. Instead, distract them - run around like a loon, throw a toy, lie down on the ground and squeal - then praise and ask them to come when they focus on you again

- Never, ever scold for not coming back or let your tone get angrier every time you call. Use a whistle to keep emotion out of the command

It took six months of this, every single day, to get to the stage with mine where I can drop the long line in certain places and be confident that I'll see her again in the same lifetime. Huge relief to be able to play ball in the park, though, and have her play properly with other dogs.

 

[Brownmare]

Thanks Cayla, i knew you would have some great advice as usual

 

[Brownmare]

- Don't set yourself up for failure. If they're so intently focussed on something else that you know they won't come if you call, don't bother! Again you're just reinforcing that there's a choice involved. Instead, distract them - run around like a loon, throw a toy, lie down on the ground and squeal - then praise and ask them to come when they focus on you again

Hehe I've done plenty of this with my lurcher when he was young and delinquent - got some really funny looks at times Trouble is that was 8 years ago and I've forgotten loads - it's all starting to come back now....

 

[CAYLA]

I also have a specail dog, and again she has no interest in play/toys as a rather solem, stubborn akita with a keen hunt instinct again this is basically where respect comes in (which I definately think comes with bond), of which my dogs learn in abundance when they come in, as much as she would love to wonder off into the wilderness and live off the land, she keeps an eye on me all the time, knowing that my eye in on her and as a result she is rarely now on the lead at all (after years of being on), I think as much as we like the postive association (which is always the easiest way to train) a bit of respect and owner interest goes along way

What are you getting and where from? I msut have missed that exciting news

 

[Brownmare]

How could you miss that? May I point you in the direction of the post Cute Whippet Pics a little further down the page. Although I think I will have to fight Gazey for him

He is 15 months old and was given up to the rescue due to lack of recall.....

 

[CorvusCorax]

Making yourself more interesting than everything else via play, food, toys etc - you are the source of these things, not a box or bowl.

Hand feeding (IE food comes from pockets, not a bowl)

Calling the dog between two people in a very hyper way in a sterile environment, then transfer it slowly to places where there will be distractions

Always keep very positive an animated, no frustration or negativity on the dog's (eventual) return, no matter how long it takes.

Don't use the dog's name, use a command, like 'here' or 'come' and keep it high pitched and inviting. Never chase the dog - super fun game that - for the dog!

Don't nag the dog, if it learns to ignore you the first few times, why would it listen to you after that? This is why long line is helpful. Come! No come? Reel dog in by hand and reward.

With a hound a flirtpole might be fun, an old rag tied to a lunge whip will be much more enticing than a ball!!!

 

[CAYLA]

Oh yes, wow, cute cute cute, whips or atleast the ones I have had/still have usually have fab recall, they bond pretty well, as they are pretty affectionate little dogs, aslong as you offer the couch/bed/15 tog quilt,it will never leave you mine are playful and both retrieve frizbys, esp my dinky blue one, she is the most playful dog I have, and she is like super glue to the leg

 

[blackcob]

With a hound a flirtpole might be fun, an old rag tied to a lunge whip will be much more enticing than a ball!!!

I've been wondering about these - is there any particular technique to use or do you just wave it around? I'm thinking a bit of rabbit fur on the end would be just the trick, y'see...

 

[ChesnutsRoasting]

Distraction. Distraction. Distraction!!!!. The best chasers I have ever owned are Whippets. Practise recall regularly in the home & garden & reward with excessive praise or a suitable treat. Use the Hound Distraction Technique if he spies something to chase, shout, wave your arms like a thing possessed & leg it in the opposite direction if you have caught his attention, if not, I hope you can skin & gut a rabbit (or squirrel) for a lovely stew!!!

 

[CorvusCorax]

What ever you like, wave it in the air, skoosh it along the ground (more natural), but the dog must not be allowed to 'win' the fluffyness until they have done what you have asked them to. So if it is recall, skoosh, dog comes back, sit, skoosh, good girl, have it.

They must then give it up too , usually in exchange for a bit of food. With a command like 'out' 'off' 'leave' - the most important bit.

Then the reward for letting go is food and movement of the pole again, ad nauseum!!

 

[CAYLA]

Distraction. Distraction. Distraction!!!!. The best chasers I have ever owned are Whippets. Practise recall regularly in the home & garden & reward with excessive praise or a suitable treat. Use the Hound Distraction Technique if he spies something to chase, shout, wave your arms like a thing possessed & leg it in the opposite direction if you have caught his attention, if not, I hope you can skin & gut a rabbit (or squirrel) for a lovely stew!!!

Lol at the rabbit skinning mine can actually be recalled from chasing, the bull lurcher takes a little more "tone in voice"



I always use their name too unlike CC, otherwise if I said "come" all 10 would be there, and I think the tone of the voice tells them how urgent I want them back I wish I only had 1

 

[Brownmare]

Oh yes, wow, cute cute cute, whips or atleast the ones I have had/still have usually have fab recall, they bond pretty well, as they are pretty affectionate little dogs, aslong as you offer the couch/bed/15 tog quilt,it will never leave you mine are playful and both retrieve frizbys, esp my dinky blue one, she is the most playful dog I have, and she is like super glue to the leg

You have given me hope Reading between the lines I think there was very little bond with the original owner and he may have been hit

I would actually be very happy for him to catch all the squirrels and rabbits he can find. Effing things eat all our wheat / barley / walnuts / hazelnuts Would definitely help to be able to call him off if I need to though......

 

[Brownmare]

I love the idea of a flirtpole too CC. Must try that out but suspect I will need to have lightning reflexes to control when he catches it

 

[ChesnutsRoasting]

Lol at the rabbit skinning mine can actually be recalled from chasing, the bull lurcher takes a little more "tone in voice"

Oi, stop showing off,

I always use their name too unlike CC, otherwise if I said "come" all 10 would be there, and I think the tone of the voice tells them how urgent I want them back I wish I only had 1

I think I know the 'tone' you mean - like a cross between a foghorn & the possessed girl in the Exorcist!

 

[CAYLA]

[/B]

I think I know the 'tone' you mean - like a cross between a foghorn & the possessed girl in the Exorcist!

Lmfao....you got it

 

[GinaB]

I find if the 'heel' command doesn't work various phrases such as:

'come here'
'come here NOW'
'come here NOW you little cowbag'
'COME HERE NOW YOU LITTLE FECKING ****E!'

tend to be very effective Especially the last one. Then they know I mean business

ETS: For Tina, as she is deaf as a post and only has one eye, I have to wave my arms and run around to catch her attention and then run int he opposite direction Best trained gundog ever

 

[Spudlet]

I find if the 'heel' command doesn't work various phrases such as:

'come here'
'come here NOW'
'come here NOW you little cowbag'
'COME HERE NOW YOU LITTLE FECKING ****E!'

I find 'GET YOUR A!!E BACK HERE RIGHT NOW' works fairly well too

The hot chicken recall trick is a good'un. Get a roast chicken from the supermarket and strip all the meat and skin off the carcase and stick it in a back. Upon a successful recall, give the dog a good big lump of chicken, a real bonanza reward. Make sure the dog is hungry to begin with, and wave the chicken under his nose before letting him go (obviously in a safe encolsed space to start with) so he knows you have it

 

[Kellys Heroes]

I find if the 'heel' command doesn't work various phrases such as:

'come here'
'come here NOW'
'come here NOW you little cowbag'
'COME HERE NOW YOU LITTLE FECKING ****E!'

tend to be very effective Especially the last one. Then they know I mean business

Really made me giggle!
A convo commonly heard between my 'super selective hearing off the lead' Goldie when we first started the dreaded recall!
You've got some really solid advice so I'll just give you a brief account of my experience..
My (then) boyfriend bought a Husky from the local dogs home and wanted (obviously) to be able to let her off the lead as they lived in quite a nice rural spot - but Huskies being Huskies, them + recall = don't mix!
So I took a lunge line down with me and we went out on the field with Mischa on a lunge rather than the lead. We let her head off then we stopped and used her name only once "Mischa, come!" And as has been said above - okay, you don't WANT to come here?? We'll make you come here. Reel the dog in, hand feed treats, physical reward such as pats, change the tone of your voice to make it sound more exciting so they know they've done a good thing.
We did this for weeks and weeks until we were sure she'd come back to us then started the 2 person calling her back and forth (but not for long enough she got bored) - we even took it to the level of one person hiding and shouting her!
She wasn't interested in toys, it was more food and even more so, people so we had to make ourselves look really exciting and inviting! If she didn't respond to us, we turned in the opposite direction and legged it, I mean really ran and she'd soon think oh my God they're leaving me, let's go!

It all depends on the dog and what motivates that individual. You'll get there

 

[Brownmare]

Thanks KH I can't wait to get stuck into the training. I've just been looking at a dvd with Lesley Nelson an American dog trainer who said exactly the same as you She also suggests hand feeding to get the dog thinking all good things come from you which seems sensible but it may start a rucus with the other 2 and there is NO WAY I'm hand feeding 3 at once.........

 

[Kellys Heroes]

Haha! No I can see that might cause a slight problem...!

It really is individual orientated some dogs respond to toys, some to food and others couldn't give a monkeys!
I find training fantastic though, frustrating, tiring and draining all at the same time, but fantastic!

 

[Brownmare]

Tell me about it! The 2 we have now are total opposites: Susie is a walking stomach and loves to have 'only dog' time but Oscar is a squeaky toy freak and loves rough & tumble games with other dogs. From what I know of Dash he likes his cuddles but hasn't had many toys before, and obs he loves to run

Its so rewarding to see the improvement in a challenging dog

 

[Kellys Heroes]

We're the same, we have a canine hoover with the Goldie, Misty, and the GSD, Tara, just loves her ball on a string, nothing else, JUST the ball on a string!
Best feeling in the world
That's why I'm so happy with what we managed with Mischa I've never had experience with Huskies before but from what I've heard they're about the worst recallers you can get!
Now if I could just get Misty's ears to start hearing everything I say...

 

[Brownmare]

I used to keep an empty crisp packet in my pocket when training Susie. I'd rattle that before saying anything so I could guarantee having her undivided attention lol Funnily enough she goes deaf when its raining and it's time to go out

 

[blackcob]

That's why I'm so happy with what we managed with Mischa I've never had experience with Huskies before but from what I've heard they're about the worst recallers you can get!

I can vouch for that... Conventional husky wisdom is to never let the buggers off-lead, they're that bad!

 

[CorvusCorax]

I always use their name too unlike CC, otherwise if I said "come" all 10 would be there, and I think the tone of the voice tells them how urgent I want them back I wish I only had 1

Oh I understand if you have a whole pack, it's not ideal
I just see so many people deadening their dogs to their names, without meaning to, I loved what Inky and Sunny said a few weeks ago, which could be applied to recall

"My OHs fave one is if one of the dogs are misbehaving he will shout at them using nothing but their name. I have made a point of periodically just shouting "Craig" at him in an angry voice. His response is always "what?" with my reply then being "exactly!""

I used the name when I really, really, really, need him back!!!! Or a slightly hysterical 'Puppeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!'