Recall training with a 'selective hearing' young Lab??!

JustAnotherNeddy

JustAnotherNeddy

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Hello, please help as i'm pulling my hair out! :( P.s it's long!



Some of you may know i have a 16month old fox red lab bitch who i take pictures of regularly.

She is very intelligent, usually picking commands up after 5-7 repetitions. She knows sit, lie, stay, heel in both english and german (i use german and my parents use english with her, not ideal i know but she responds to both immediately and usually to german better anyway!)

We were given her at 7 months from a young family who just had a baby girl and she was too much. She was crated, but was rarely out of her crate, knew no commands and was walked maximum of 5-10 mins a day pulling all the way.

Since being with us she's learnt all basic commands, is VERY food orientated (typical lab!) and loves squeaky balls and sticks.

However, as soon as we leave the confines of our home/garden, it all goes to pot. We have access to a public footpath with some big fields down it, bordered one side by a railway with just post and rail separating. She's fine off lead with regards to other dogs and not going more than a certain distance from me... until she see's a bird/rabbit/reallygoodscent and then she's off. She does come back in her own time (ignoring me) but its getting dangerous with the trains and i can't risk it. I've never had a recall problem with any of my other labs i've had, they all were taught from puppy age to come to call for a biscuit or a cuddle. But with this one i'm stumped. She just listens when she wants too, even when i call her in an excited voice she just glances then carries on, and if i use my angry (and apparently very scary) voice she drops to the floor in a lie position for max of 3 seconds, then goes again and angry voice works no more!

She is trained to a stop whistle and sits (probably the most valuable thing i've taught her!) but only momentarily if something interesting is happening, and then is off again.


Please help me! I don't want her to have to stay on her lead the whole time! :(

Are there any techniques or tricks of the trade to nail this and not let it become a bigger problem?
 
JustAnotherNeddy said:
Hello, please help as i'm pulling my hair out! :( P.s it's long!

She is trained to a stop whistle and sits (probably the most valuable thing i've taught her!) but only momentarily
Are there any techniques or tricks of the trade to nail this and not let it become a bigger problem?
Click to expand...

Use that moment! If you have a 100% solid stop, she should know that that stop precedes something GOOD and not a clip on the lead or something that signals the end of fun.

With youngsters I make them retrieve obsessive from young pups, then in a high distraction environment I would blow a stop, pause momentarily and then lob favourite toy/ball/dummy in opposite direction to the disappearing hare or whatever and thereby allow the chase, but on something safe.

This comes down to how you teach the stop and you may need to go back a few steps in order to create the linkage.
 
gunnergundog said:
Use that moment! If you have a 100% solid stop, she should know that that stop precedes something GOOD and not a clip on the lead or something that signals the end of fun.

With youngsters I make them retrieve obsessive from young pups, then in a high distraction environment I would blow a stop, pause momentarily and then lob favourite toy/ball/dummy in opposite direction to the disappearing hare or whatever and thereby allow the chase, but on something safe.

This comes down to how you teach the stop and you may need to go back a few steps in order to create the linkage.
Click to expand...

Oh that's genius! Why i never had this idea before i do not know. I've been contemplating sending her to a gundog trainer local to me to see if she'll develop a better recall there. I'll give this a shot when i take her out next. Thank you very very much!

Any other ideas are welcome as i'm willing to try pretty much everything (bar electric collars!) in the case that method 1 is blocked out by selective hearing !
 
I know I am repeating myself :p but if she is foodie - you can also try feeding from your hand and train recall when she is hungry - all food comes from you and she only gets it when she is coming back to you. Similar with the dummy or the ball or the toy - it is not a thing she gets constant access to, it is a thing you produce and play with her with, when she comes back or displays the correct behaviour for.

Oh, and...HIER, fuuuussssss!!! :p :p :p
 
JustAnotherNeddy said:
Oh that's genius! Why i never had this idea before i do not know. I've been contemplating sending her to a gundog trainer local to me to see if she'll develop a better recall there. I'll give this a shot when i take her out next. Thank you very very much!
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Nooooo! Train it in the house first of all and then in the gardnen and then on the cricket pitch/village green and THEN in an environment where there are higher distractions! Set her up for success, yes?? Work through the levels of training......don't go striaght for an MA in mathematics without having done an O or A level first or an Arbitur, OK??
 
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CaveCanem said:
....
Oh, and...HIER, fuuuussssss!!! :p :p :p
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Hahah! I do get some funny looks but she understands it and responds straight away so i can't complain!


gunnergundog said:
Nooooo! Train it in the house first of all and then in the gardnen and then on the cricket pitch/village green and THEN in an environment where there are higher distractions! Set her up for success, yes?? Work through the levels of training......don't go striaght for an MA in mathematics without having done an O or A level first or an Arbitur, OK??
Click to expand...

Yes, i'm getting ahead of myself already! I shall begin tomorrow morning in the house! If you were in E.yorks i'd just pop her in a box and send her via parcel force to you, i have a feeling she'd be all corrected in about 1 day :D It's going to take me ages! It's just something i've never had to deal with before. I can't stand dogs with bad manners at all. :o
 
If you find you need help, relatively locally, I can recommend Stevie Allerton in West Yorkshire (Leeds). Google her....her expertise is in HPRs but she has experience in all gundogs.
 
CaveCanem said:
No, the funny looks come when you yell PLAAAAAAAAATZ!

Especially when you are me and follow it up with '....you little prick...'
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Hahahahahaha! I was out with her on the village green and she'd gone to investigate a bench and i could see some ducks just about to walk infront of her line of sight..

Cue a PLATZ!
No response.
Not one. Only a lot very odd looks from the public..
Ducks moving closer, knew it needed an immediate response to i could grab her in time.. PLAAAAATZ you D*CK*****. Dropped straight down and waited..

I got a few glares from the parents in the playpark and the grannies on the benches but other than that, approval from the rest of them and a few laughs.

I think it takes a particular type audience to fully appreciate our German Hund training techniques.. ;)
 
Sometimes i think she really is partially deaf.. then a bird moves and i realise that no, she isn't deaf, she's just taking the pissyy out of me. She's the devil sometimes she really is.. but she it pretty, so she tends to get away with murder..
Expletives are used often by me.
 
Totally agree with the distraction from a stop whistle. This is what we are currently teaching our 11month old lab at gun dog training. He is just learning whistles and directions but i have noticed as soon as we ask something they then throw a New dummy so always something fun- you want to be more fun than that bunny etc.
Im thinking of getting a blank gun now as if whistle fails he will turn on 6 pence and look for fallen dummy as soon as gun shot goes off.
 
Ps the last bit about gun is not going to be done unless gun dog trainer says we need it to re enforce the stop whistle. As his drive is so high its hard once he is sent out to get his attention! Im not actually going take it on a walk! :)
 
I would keep her on a lunge line for now - the more she tanks off, the more she learns that she can tank off - what you want is to set yourself up in a virtuous circle where she always comes back and she can't tank off at will.

You could try having a super-special recall treat - I find Primula cheese is a goody. Start off by blowing your recall signal when she's with you, then let her have a little squeeze from the tube. Do this a few times, what you want is to build an association between whistle - squeezy cheesy. Then give it a go in the garden, then out and about - but only when you know she's going to come back at first. You want to set her up to succeed, because the more she succeeds, the more you can reinforce why it is a good thing for her to succeed. If you don't think she'll come back and you need her, you can reel her in with the lunge line.

You won't have to have squeezy cheese in your pocket forever, but it can really help to cement the recall. Over time you can start using normal treats with it, then phase the cheese out, then just give a treat occasionally. I now only take 'sweeties' out sometimes and dole them out rarely, and squeezy cheese hardly ever. Also, I would not feed before a walk - a hungry doglet is more likely to want to stick with you.

Finally, I find recall is improved if we begin the walk with a quick game - I play fetch with a ball launcher for a few minutes, then on the walk we have occasional random throws. This makes you more interesting.
 
We should form a very small clique of 'people who shout at their dogs in German' :p


My thing for a rock solid recall is pretending I am about to throw a rock into the sea. How I am ever going to replicate that on the trial field, I will never know :p
 
Spudlet said:
I would keep her on a lunge line for now - the more she tanks off, the more she learns that she can tank off - what you want is to set yourself up in a virtuous circle where she always comes back and she can't tank off at will.

You could try having a super-special recall treat - I find Primula cheese is a goody. Start off by blowing your recall signal when she's with you, then let her have a little squeeze from the tube. Do this a few times, what you want is to build an association between whistle - squeezy cheesy. Then give it a go in the garden, then out and about - but only when you know she's going to come back at first. You want to set her up to succeed, because the more she succeeds, the more you can reinforce why it is a good thing for her to succeed. If you don't think she'll come back and you need her, you can reel her in with the lunge line.

You won't have to have squeezy cheese in your pocket forever, but it can really help to cement the recall. Over time you can start using normal treats with it, then phase the cheese out, then just give a treat occasionally. I now only take 'sweeties' out sometimes and dole them out rarely, and squeezy cheese hardly ever. Also, I would not feed before a walk - a hungry doglet is more likely to want to stick with you.

Finally, I find recall is improved if we begin the walk with a quick game - I play fetch with a ball launcher for a few minutes, then on the walk we have occasional random throws. This makes you more interesting.
Click to expand...


I must get this queezy cheese! At the minute we're on cocktail sausages, she's very good in the confines of home/garden but not further afield. I have a lunge line for just this purpose. I'll give it a go this evening. Thank you very much!
 
CaveCanem said:
We should form a very small clique of 'people who shout at their dogs in German' :p


My thing for a rock solid recall is pretending I am about to throw a rock into the sea. How I am ever going to replicate that on the trial field, I will never know :p
Click to expand...


If only i could work out how to make a signature i'd very much like to begin this small clique! I love the looks i get.. :rolleyes:
 
JustAnotherNeddy said:
I must get this queezy cheese! At the minute we're on cocktail sausages, she's very good in the confines of home/garden but not further afield. I have a lunge line for just this purpose. I'll give it a go this evening. Thank you very much!
Click to expand...

I should take out shares in it - a load of clients / classmates saw me using it, and now every time we do recall, everyone whips a tube of the stuff out:D

The thing is, dogs don't tend to generalise very well, so you can teach them something at home, but they won't always click that the same thing applies away from home. Hence why lots of the owners in puppy class end up saying things like 'He's really good in the kitchen' - it's not them, it's just that they need to take things back a step because they're in a new place. Also, out and about you have so many more distractions to contend with too which never helps! So never worry about having to take things back to basics away from home. It's not a reflection on you or your dog.:)
 
Wahay, that makes...two..of...us? :D :p


I thought for one wonderful moment you'd cracked how I can replicate throwing a rock into the sea, on a green field, without using body language or voice. Oh well!
 
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