Recent attacks on legal interests and activities

Fiagai

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21 February 2011
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I will start this thread off with a short quote that I believe explains at least in part some of the reasoning behind the mindless anti types who randomly sign up to H&H in an deranged attempt to persuade forum members of the evil of their ways....

People are more violently opposed to fur than leather
because it's safer to harass well-dressed ladies than motorcycle gangs."
It would appear that to some at least the rural pursuits of fox hunting and shooting are often perceived as the remit of the wealthy and landed proportion of the population. No matter how wrong these perceptions have been shown to be, it has resulted in those involved in hunting becoming the targets of the self-same appointed antis whose often stated mission is to prevent "toffs enjoying themselves" running around the countryside after wildlife.

As showcased on this forum antis' have no appreciation for hunting in its role of wildlife management. In rejecting this traditional management of predator species such as foxes and citing concepts and definitions of welfare provisions that have been shamelessly flinched from other (domestic) animal legislation, they argue pointlessly that all legal wildlife management activities should now also be outlawed and in doing so also reject the very bill that they helped to become law.

Thus legal forms of hunting such as terrier work and shooting are again and again repeatedly attacked by antis, leaving illegal forms of hunting largely ignored because antis' seem to think that those involved in legal hunting activities will be easier targets for such machinations.

However not happy with attempting to destroy generations worth of knowledge and skill in wildlife management, the antis' also maintain an attack on the provisions of the current Hunting Act in the belief that they will get their own way by continually attacking what they don’t like. Using the perverse logic applied in this forum by antis it would appear that the next steps in these attacks against rural areas will result in antis attempting to persuade us that all hunting, shooting and farming ultimatley be outlawed.
 
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ThePinkPony

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My friend was vehemently against shooting to the point where she would call me out every time we were together.

Took her home to the shoot, showed her the thousands of happy, chubby pheasants all milling about enjoying life.

I explained in great detail what happens on a shoot day ''oh noo, eww, its soo cruel''.

Then explained what a battery chicken goes through in its similarly short life...

Not many antis i know are bothered about poor mrs hen who in my opinion gets the shortest straw of them all. Why? because everyone loves to hate the rich man.
 

CARREG

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The antis certainly know who to target, they tried their nonsense here years ago and didnt want to come back in a hurry, the more well heeled hunts should have nipped it in the bud years ago................Carreg
 

Fiagai

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Btw note to all - I'm not saying we all are "well dressed ladies"! It can be taken as an anaolgy for anyone tempted to use that one. As for the hairy motorcycle gangs.....
 

Kaylum

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Tobehonest I hated the shoot at our stables. Ducklings bought in (not bred) and then fed and then shot. I have also never understood why people think pheasants are a wild bird when they too are bought in. Fed and shot, just to say "I shot a pheasant".

But thats up to them but I dont think it is sport and it certainly is not vermin control.
 

Jennyharvey

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I guess if your going to oppose hunting and shooting, you better oppose any kind of animal cruelty, such as fur, leather, and the meat and dairy industry.

Im sure most foxes have a better life than most farm animals, so opposing one and not the other, is just hypocritical.
 

Kaylum

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I guess if your going to oppose hunting and shooting, you better oppose any kind of animal cruelty, such as fur, leather, and the meat and dairy industry.

Im sure most foxes have a better life than most farm animals, so opposing one and not the other, is just hypocritical.
I think the reason I didnt like the shoot was also the duck would jump over the wall where the pond was and end up squashed by a car as they had no way or controlling where they went. Same with pheasants they cause a lot of accidents when they dont need to be there, they are there for pleasure and because they are a bought in we have now made a rod for our own backs as they breed easily.

You can make a difference to animal welfare just by doing the basics. Buying free range eggs (lets face it they arent expensive) and free range meats. put the intensive farmers out of business or get them to change their ways and say its not acceptable to intensive farm. My friend breeds cattle and sells to a local butcher. People know the meat has been locally produced.
 

Alec Swan

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Kaylum,

I suppose that if we consider your points, and we fail to see the whole picture, then yes, you'd be right. However, when we also consider that where the gamekeeper doesn't exist, then we should also accept, that neither does the bulk of our wildlife.

I previously spent ten years, working as a 'keeper, and I can assure you that the protection offered to our wild bird population, by the correct killing of vermin, will provide havens. Where land is in private ownership, and the free roaming public, are (hopefully) kept out, then the vital seclusion which our wildlife needs, is assured.

I'll accept that the degree of environmental and real protection is something of a spin off, but it should be considered of value, none-the-less. If shooting and hunting, provide a safe environment, albeit incidentally, then that's fine by me. Providing a level of safe and assured conditions, for foxes and pheasants, will benefit all of our wildlife, despite what others may tell you.

Alec.

Ets, I've just read your last post, and I'd agree with you, about reared ducks. Very few genuinely sporting people want to shoot them. It may be that others have seen, or taken part in the shooting of reared ducks, and found it sporting. I've seen a great deal of it, and find it distasteful. a.
 
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Kaylum

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Kaylum,

I suppose that if we consider your points, and we fail to see the whole picture, then yes, you'd be right. However, when we also consider that where the gamekeeper doesn't exist, then we should also accept, that neither does the bulk of our wildlife.

I previously spent ten years, working as a 'keeper, and I can assure you that the protection offered to our wild bird population, by the correct killing of vermin, will provide havens. Where land is in private ownership, and the free roaming public, are (hopefully) kept out, then the vital seclusion which our wildlife needs, is assured.

I'll accept that the degree of environmental and real protection is something of a spin off, but it should be considered of value, none-the-less. If shooting and hunting, provide a safe environment, albeit incidentally, then that's fine by me. Providing a level of safe and assured conditions, for foxes and pheasants, will benefit all of our wildlife, despite what others may tell you.

Alec.

Ets, I've just read your last post, and I'd agree with you, about reared ducks. Very few genuinely sporting people want to shoot them. It may be that others have seen, or taken part in the shooting of reared ducks, and found it sporting. I've seen a great deal of it, and find it distasteful. a.
Well Alec keeping rabbits and rats down etc I agree with its just the bought in stuff I dont.
 

Alec Swan

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Kaylum,

were there no artificially reared game, then there would be no gamekeepers. Were there no gamekeepers, then the rate of predation, by vermin and humans, would decimate our wildlife. Wildlife has had enough to cope with from agriculture, over the years, though I'll agree that there have been some recent improvements.

There are aspects of field sports, which I don't care for, but again, looking at the larger picture, then the benefits far outweigh the detractions.

Alec.
 

Spudlet

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There is more integrity in the pheasants that I was given to take home after a day's beating last season than in any shop-bought chicken. I saw where those birds lived, I knew the people that looked after them, I saw them die and was part of that death, and I prepared their meat myself. I personally saw them go from living birds, to dead feathery things, to a lovely stew.

Compared to a farmed chicken - even a free-range one - those phessies had a good life. They lived in their natural habitat, free to come in and out of the pens that kept them safe from predators. They had feed provided, but they could also choose to seek out other food, expressing their natural behaviour (one of the Five Freedoms). And when the time came for their death, they were not loaded into little crates, transported for a legally unlimited journey in heat or cold, strung up upside down and electrocuted. They were put up by a dog (possibly mine) and shot - and that was it.

I care a lot about animal welfare, I devote a lot of time to it. It's a real passion for me. That I still go shooting should say something, I hope.
 

Dolcé

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I worked on a 'free range' egg farm, their interpretation of free range is very different to mine! Wild pheasants, ducks, foxes etc (even those birds reared for the shoot) at least have some sort of natural life. Personally I couldn't get pleasure from any sort of hunting (I can't even rear and kill animals for my own use, much to my disgust) but I don't object to others who do do see it as sporting. I would love to enjoy that part of country life but am far too sentimental, my ex OH and his father both take part in beating for the shoots and have done for many years.
 

EAST KENT

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While I like the traditions associated with the shooting world,living next to a big sindicate estate and seeing some of the workings of it were not pleasant.The Keeper was the old fashioned sort..with gibbets of dead animals on view,snares were everywhere,in badger or fox "runs",gin traps were still in use,as one village cat found .He dragged that trap back over a ploughed field,till it stuck in a hedge where one of my dogs found him.
Any dog or cat that wandered into the sacred areas "disappeared", in fact everything but pheasants..and the occassional jay,for it`s policing calls,was annihilated in those woods.Not what I would call "conservation".
Perhaps the funniest incident was when the Tickham hounds put into Longbeech,a considerable distance from this estate,one January.Hounds left so fast not one person had a clue where they`d gone..they had got up a "traveller" dog fox..who legged it straight back to the keepers sacred woods,hounds hot on his brush ,and eventually killed there.
Oh boy..did I rib that Keeper about his "fox control".:D
 

Paddydou

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Thats the problem with anything you always get someone who takes things too far no matter what walk of life you are in. Such a shame as its human nature to remember the bad and not the good. There are many suberb keepers, farmers, etc but how much recognition do they get for the work they do? Even then its not "shocking" enough to make the headlines - can you imagine front page news being "Farmer wins CLA award for conservation" being bradied around the newspapers? Horror and shock sells, the good stuff doesn't so all we ever hear about in the main stream is the bad stuff and you have to dig for the good.
 

Luci07

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On a funnier note to lighten this slightly - when growing up we had a shoot that would go through our woods and they did take the whole care and control of it very seriously.

Quite by accident my mother spoilt an entire shoot by experimenting with corn and raisen wine (don't ask!). She threw out the dregs (the woods ran alongside part of the garden). Result - numerous drunk pheasants for quite a number of days. It was so bad at one point that to get down the drive, you often had to get out and remove pheasants. The shoot were not pleased as they could not shoot the (drunken) pheasants as it was not deemed sporting. My father was even less happy as he then missed out the customary brace he would be given!
 

Fiagai

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On a funnier note to lighten this slightly - when growing up we had a shoot that would go through our woods and they did take the whole care and control of it very seriously.

Quite by accident my mother spoilt an entire shoot by experimenting with corn and raisen wine (don't ask!). She threw out the dregs (the woods ran alongside part of the garden). Result - numerous drunk pheasants for quite a number of days. It was so bad at one point that to get down the drive, you often had to get out and remove pheasants. The shoot were not pleased as they could not shoot the (drunken) pheasants as it was not deemed sporting. My father was even less happy as he then missed out the customary brace he would be given!
yes but just think how tasty they would be.....
 

EAST KENT

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On a funnier note to lighten this slightly - when growing up we had a shoot that would go through our woods and they did take the whole care and control of it very seriously.

Quite by accident my mother spoilt an entire shoot by experimenting with corn and raisen wine (don't ask!). She threw out the dregs (the woods ran alongside part of the garden). Result - numerous drunk pheasants for quite a number of days. It was so bad at one point that to get down the drive, you often had to get out and remove pheasants. The shoot were not pleased as they could not shoot the (drunken) pheasants as it was not deemed sporting. My father was even less happy as he then missed out the customary brace he would be given!
Oh yes..that is the easy way to grab some nice fat pheasants for your own pot,works a treat,practically fall into your hands.When it comes to free pheasant meat "sporting" does`nt come into it in my book!
 

millreef

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I'm not going to spew my personal opinion on this thread but I'd just like to say that as an observation "we" (as in Brits), seem to look at the hunting debate through the lens of the old class system. It has surpassed animal rights and moved on to perceived fight for egalitarianism. It's always been a bit inexplicable how vehement people can be regarding hunting (I'm talking mainly about fox hunting). In the USA they get rattled about Abortion - in the UK it's hunting... strange eh?:confused:
 
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