Recommend a new bit for leaning horse

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vienna

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I am currently reschooling a 15.3 ID X TB Mare, she is 6 years old and has not done much work since she was broken at 3.5 years.

She came to me in a snaffle bit and I was told no breaks, little steering.
The problem seems to be she has a weak backend due to TB legs and has the ID neck and head.
You pick up the reins and she just bears down on them as if to prop her up for balance.
She is a strong and ignorant horse due to her 'proffessional trainer' breaking her like this??
However I have spent months reschooling her on the ground to teach her to balance herself without the worry/pain of a bit in her mouth during the process. Do not want her any stronger.
Lunging of head collar and with saddle so she knows my voice aids as it is clear she has learned not to stop from the bit.
I was thinking of a waterford snaffle but does anyone else have any ideas.
This new bit is meant to be a new start for her and me together, so to speak:rolleyes::)
 
I was going to suggest a full cheek waterford :) with keepers(to give you a tiny bit of poll pressure too) it should just collapse in her mouth if she leans BUT I can't emphasise the importance of getting her acceptance of the bit... do you play down the reins at all? (while I don't like fiddly hands, some youngsters just need to learn that the bit is mobile in their mouths rather than a constant force to fight against) does she offer any kind of 'outline' or acceptance of the bit? I think this could be as much, if not more about re schooling her as it is about the bit

What type of 'snaffle bit' is she in? A full cheek french link might be better than a single jointed snaffle as it offers a little more movelent and a kinder action.

remember to get half an inch bigger than normal if you go for the waterford ;)
 
San you give us an idea of her mouth confo?

Regardless of the bit, I would get working on plenty of exercises to strengthen her backend, without that there is no way she'll be able to lighten infront. Hills, hills and some more hills are your best friends ever lol! Those and nice forward transitions to help her take some weight behind. It might be a while until you can ask her to hold herself and work into a contact so worth bearing in mind when choosing the rein length you ask her to work into.

Bit wise, only a guess without more info, but my sensitive tongued ID heinz mare (oh so heavy in front, no breaks or steering what so ever!) is much happier in her NS verbindent. Gives her tongue space which has helped enormously with her heaviness infront. She still needed alot of schooling, but a comfy bit helped her alot.
 
I have only ridden her three times since she came to me as a project in december. Spent weeks and weeks schooling her from ground and now weather is better will be cracking on but I always wanted her to be started with a new bit. Her old bit is a loose ring jointed snaffle.
Her problem is she does not know where to put her head she pokes it up in the air and looks all around, nearly tripping up over herself.
She feels like a cart horse to steer:eek:
Somebody mentioned she may have been in draw reins.
She did offer some contact when I asked, however she is very much on her forehand.
 
Sounds like you have the right plan with the re-schooling option. My first thought too was a waterford. I'm sure others may have better suggestions. Alternatively if its more of a new start you are after would a variation on the snaffle you have perhaps do the job, eg swop to sweet iron, French link or something.
 
Just read your second post, could you try a copper roller? They're not as popular nowadays but they do encourage a horse to mouth the bit & its as mild as a standard eggbutt
 
Yes, I never see the bit as essential to a stop. I always expect my horses to stop from pressure from the seat aid first then slight check with rein after.
However this mare has not been taught this really, its a shame for her shes been messed about a lot.
I am changing bits as she has got the better of this bit and Im sure she only sees it as a painful aid to be nagged about her mouth:(
Although she is a big strong strapping mare, I am only 5.2 and refuse to ride a horse by pulling them about
hence all the time reschooling in head collar.

Her mouth confo is rather fleshy but there is plenty of room for most types of bit. As I say she has a lovely ID head and good strapping forehand, however her back legs are more TB but could be helped a lot with some work and muscling up.
 
Yes I have used a roller bit in the past with two rather ignorant horses, they are nice and kind and I have had good results.:)
 
I used to ride a horse that sounds very similar. He would put his head up and poke nose out but when you asked for a contact he would go on the forehand, btv and lean on your hands. He went best in a waterford snaffle.

The key was to get the horse working from behind, off the forehand, and working long and low, poking the nose out and down on a loose contact. He could only lean if there was something to lean against. If I gave him a contact, he would pull against it. It took time but he improved when he got stronger behind. He was always tense aswell, so long warm-ups helped. :D
 
I personally think that where a horse has struggled to accept a bit in the past a change of material can be a helpful change as it feels and tastes different. Perhaps a happy mouth with s roller or one of the NS losenge bits? I think rollers are very good for horses that lean - a happy mouth roller stops my boy leNing but s still very gentle on his sensitive mouth
 
She will be on her forehand because she is naturally built that way... try not to worry about that and concentrate on building up that back end. Some pole work will do her the world of good as well as hill work!

If steering is a bit iffy I think you'd benefit from something with a full cheek for sure. I switch between a full cheek french link for schooling and a full cheek waterford for hacking... works for me!

It does sound like she needs re-educating into understanding what the bit is about...have you got anyone on hand to help with some lessons to get you started? I had just one lesson with a good instructor on my big baby boy (17.1hh, 4.5 year old CB) and it has made the world of difference :)
 
Rosie041390 said:
I used to ride a horse that sounds very similar. He would put his head up and poke nose out but when you asked for a contact he would go on the forehand, btv and lean on your hands. He went best in a waterford snaffle.

The key was to get the horse working from behind, off the forehand, and working long and low, poking the nose out and down on a loose contact. He could only lean if there was something to lean against. If I gave him a contact, he would pull against it. It took time but he improved when he got stronger behind. He was always tense aswell, so long warm-ups helped. :D
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**Like**
 
Yes you are right they do tend to lean with something to learn against.
I am prepared to offer her more contact anyhow, however she does a mean spook now and again:rolleyes:
I think I shall go with waterford with full cheeks sounds best thing with this mare and it will also help with some steering aids.
I shall see how it goes and maybe also look at picking up a copper roller bit.

I have used the myler combination bit with copper rollers and have had amazing results but not with a horse this build/strength.

Does anyone have any experience of a myler with a similar horse.
I know they can be great for reschooling,
but v.expensive.
 
I dont take lessons often because of the cost.
But I am an AI and have been breaking and schooling for 11 years in an employed capacity.
I was just looking for experiences with bits as I would never recommend changing one unless it was absolutely neccessary and all other options have been explored:)
 
vienna said:
I dont take lessons often because of the cost.
But I am an AI and have been breaking and schooling for 11 years in an employed capacity.
I was just looking for experiences with bits as I would never recommend changing one unless it was absolutely neccessary and all other options have been explored:)
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Fair enough! I have just realised myself how beneficial it is to have someone on the ground see things from a different perspective. I'm sure being an AI, you'd agree ;)

Good luck with her! She sounds a nice challenge :)
 
I couldn't function without my Cambridge snaffles :) I get a lot of schoolers in the yard, and 90% of them have issues with leaning/evasion. The Cambridge is mild, comfortable, gives them tongue space (particularly good with ID type mouth conformation) and I've not had a horse that wasn't instantly better in it - they really lighten up in front.

Despite being mild, I find that horses which may appear strong in another bit are much more controllable in the Cambridge, so I'd not worry about using one on a horse that feels like a bit of a tank. I'd far sooner use a Cambridge than a Waterford, which can be severe.

The downside is that they are not dressage legal, and on some the bit rings can be small so your aids are fairly direct, although I have found some now with bigger rings. I usually gravitate towards a loose ring double jointed half moon link snaffle after a few weeks which has bigger rings.
 
Thanks for help everyone
And I would certainly agree that it is better to have somebody on the ground whatever your ability.
I am afraid though I am a one woman band-
through finances and not arrogance:)
I only school max two at a time, I would not employ somebody with this setup.
 
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