recovery time after applied equine podiatry trim

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dangermouse

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My horse had his first consultation and trim from an equine podiatrist a week ago, he is still very sore on hard ground, only walking short distance to field. Has anyone been through this before and if so how long did it take to stop been footy. I was very impressed with the explanation etc. of the principals of AEP but seeing how uncomfortable he is I am now having my doubts. Would be interested to hear any experiences.
 
No experiance of a equine podiaist but I would not be happy if the horse was sore after a week.
Is he sore in the field as well or just on the hard getting to it.
Was he sound BF before the trim or where the shoes removed for the trim.
 
We had a mare on our yard who was stable bound for 3 weeks after her trims but I think that is quite extreme.

I'm sure a shoeless person will come along soon with more realistic time scales.

Hope your horse recovers soon, sore feet must be like a form of torture :(
 
I'd be very concerned. I had my thoroughbred barefoot for 18 months as his hooves needed the time out of shoes as they were dire, he was sound on hard ground that very day.
 
if in any doubt I would ask a qualified farrier to have a look, I used a trimmer and horse was better not worse after trim but have now gone back to farrier - nothing against trimmer but my farrier balances feet just as well as trimmer.

If horse still sore I would try hoof boots until more comfortable - personally I would not be using that trimmer again - sounds like too much off too soon.
 
It's quite simple.

The horse should never have walked away from the trim less comfortable than it walked into it. If it was the trim rather than being newly shoeless that caused this discomfort, then you need to find a trimmer who knows how to trim.

Clearly, this one only knows how to follow a formula that they have been taught with lines on the foot, and equally clearly that was completely wrong for your horse.
 
Mine are not ever sore after AEP trim. I woulg be having words if they were and would expect it to be a one-off caused by ... I don't know, can't think of any excuses. Seeing as I wouldn't hesitate to mine trimmed 2 days before hunting, I really risk any footiness.
My big mare (also now bf) has farrier trim because he used to do her remedial shoeing and she is flat footed as anything. She was sore once, I let farrier know and he has made sure it has not happened again and her transition to bf has been brilliant.

(before anyone asks, yes I use trimmers AND farrier because I don't change what is working ;) )
 
Your horse should not be any sorer after a trim than before it. If your horse is recently barefoot out of shoes then a transition period of anything up to 1 year or more can be expected. There's lots to repair!!!! But lots of horses transition much quicker. Winter is easier due to less sugar in the grass but you need to be feeding a suitable diet (eg no sugar) along with it. Boots with thick pads can be a real help but I don't advise turnout in them although you can do just that if you need to. 5 things to good bare hooves are diet, trim, movement, movement and movement. The more movement he gets the quicker his hooves will build up and replace any damaged tissue. I'd definitely ring the trimmer and tell them your worries! X
 
jacmac said:
My horse had his first consultation and trim from an equine podiatrist a week ago, he is still very sore on hard ground, only walking short distance to field. Has anyone been through this before and if so how long did it take to stop been footy. I was very impressed with the explanation etc. of the principals of AEP but seeing how uncomfortable he is I am now having my doubts. Would be interested to hear any experiences.
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pm me who your using... please..
 
You would expect a horse to be footy when the shoes come off initially. The feet are in very poor condition at this stage.

I doubt that its the trim that has made it sore, it will be the fact that it has no sole worth a light.

You cannot trim good feet into a horse it's as Barefoot Endurance says movement, movement, diet and movement.

Get it right and you may not need to trim at all.

If a barefoot horse (I mean one that is properly transitioned, not being fanny'd about with), is sore after a trim, it's been trimmed wrong.
 
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Thanks all, trimmer has been out again (they are also a vet). horse has bruised sole, now wearing hoof boots and going to be shod in front with raised heel and pad as right fore very flat and typical TB the other boxy and upright. The flat foot is the problem one and it would apparently take about 6 months to get him right if we carry on barefoot and with hoof boots. He needs to grow a bit more heel to support that foot and balance feet, so I would rather get him as comfortable as possible as quickly as poss. Podiatrist is going to work with farrier to sort him out. So fingers crossed.
 
cptrayes said:
It's quite simple.

The horse should never have walked away from the trim less comfortable than it walked into it. If it was the trim rather than being newly shoeless that caused this discomfort, then you need to find a trimmer who knows how to trim.

Clearly, this one only knows how to follow a formula that they have been taught with lines on the foot, and equally clearly that was completely wrong for your horse.
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^^^ This. Your poor horse :(
 
jacmac said:
Thanks all, trimmer has been out again (they are also a vet). horse has bruised sole, now wearing hoof boots and going to be shod in front with raised heel and pad as right fore very flat and typical TB the other boxy and upright. The flat foot is the problem one and it would apparently take about 6 months to get him right if we carry on barefoot and with hoof boots. He needs to grow a bit more heel to support that foot and balance feet, so I would rather get him as comfortable as possible as quickly as poss. Podiatrist is going to work with farrier to sort him out. So fingers crossed.
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Your vet/trimmer is a hopeless EP He caused the horse to bruise itself and now he's prescribing wedge shoes? Heaven help the poor horse :(:o:mad:
 
jacmac said:
Thanks all, trimmer has been out again (they are also a vet). horse has bruised sole, now wearing hoof boots and going to be shod in front with raised heel and pad as right fore very flat and typical TB the other boxy and upright. The flat foot is the problem one and it would apparently take about 6 months to get him right if we carry on barefoot and with hoof boots. He needs to grow a bit more heel to support that foot and balance feet, so I would rather get him as comfortable as possible as quickly as poss. Podiatrist is going to work with farrier to sort him out. So fingers crossed.
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The horse should not be sore after a trim just as a shod horse should not be sore after being re-shod! In either case the job hasn't been carried out in a way which is sympathetic to the horse.

With regard to the 'typical TB' feet thing its actually very common in all horses to have a high heel and a low heel and its caused by laterality and not having even muscle tone on both sides of their body, there is a theory that raising the low heel can help correct this but ONLY as a short term measure in conjunction with straightness training.
Personally i'd avoid wedges like the plague as more often than not they'll only cause more damage in the long term.

Dr. Kerry Ridgeway explains laterality much better than I....
http://www.drkerryridgway.com/articles/article-hl-heel.php
 
I think I should quickly explain before anyone jumps to anymore conclusions, we are not talking wedge heels, more likely bar shoes with pads, which will have no more of an effect than the the boots with pads he is currently wearing. He is now much better today and I must say that I agree with the comment it is probably because he has a poor sole, he does. He was slightly lame before trim and has multiple problems so unfair to place blame on trimmer, who has not just gone in all guns blazing but trimmed according to xrays. His whole environment was discussed, he is on a suitable fibre based diet and the environment is suitable for the transition phase, I just think it is a little bit of bad luck that this has happened. He is an ex racehorse and has a tendency to hare off like a lune in the field so could quite easily have stood on a stray stone etc. The same podiatrist has also completed a consultation and trim with my 18 year old who has cushings related laminitic and there has been quite a dramatic improvement since his visit, digital pulse gone and he is much more comfortable, so I would be very wary of making judgements and criticising trim techniques, each horse is an individual, which is the whole principal behind applied equine podiatry.
 
jacmac said:
I think I should quickly explain before anyone jumps to anymore conclusions, we are not talking wedge heels, more likely bar shoes with pads, which will have no more of an effect than the the boots with pads he is currently wearing.
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In every foot I've deshod from egg/heart bar with or without wedges or pads there was considerable, sometimes fairly catastrophic damage to the caudal hoof. I've never seen this with hoof boots, even those worn for a long time.

I am surprised your vet/trimmer is unaware of these consequences which are acknowledged by many farriers (although not all).
 
cptrayes said:
Your vet/trimmer is a hopeless EP He caused the horse to bruise itself and now he's prescribing wedge shoes? Heaven help the poor horse :(:o:mad:
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Exactly, when I read the prescribed treatment I thought 'oh for the love of god!' And *head desk*

Why oh why do people say things like... It would take six months to put my horse right but I'm not prepared to wait that long so ill give the go ahead to just botch it some more. So op, you're not going to take six months to fix your horses problems, your just going to be impatient and mask the problem so you can ride NOW! Lovely!:o

And can I just add... Can people stop saying he has typical tb flat feet... Humans cause this by inability to feed and maintain the horse correctly... It's not the tbs fault!
 
My friends horse had this. I went with her as she had to take it to a clinic where the expert was working at for the day. I can remember being suprised to the degree of hoof that was coming off, particuarly at the toe and remember thinking that the horse would be lame as a lot of the hoof he took off had red colour to it.

The horse was lame when walked off and loaded. The next day the horse was very lame and required strong pain killers for about a week afterwards and spent most of that first week - ten days lying on the floor unable or at least very reluctant to work.

I am no expert and am guessing I could well be wrong, but in my humble opinion I felt that the chap had taken off too much in one go. I always thought that work to a hoof had to happen over many sessions.
 
A agree with CPTrayes. In your position I would not use this vet/trimmer again; they demonstrate a clear lack of understanding of the horse's foot.
 
Snow queen I find your comment offensive I am not interested in a quick fix to ride if I was I would no longer have my horse I have only had 6 months of riding him since I bought him 2 years ago since then he has one operation for psd and numerous problems but because I care about his welfare I have not given up on him. One conclusion I have come too having placed this post is there is a desperate need for regulation in this country that requires anyone trimming horses feet to be a member of just in the same way farriers have to do. This would bring into line standardisation of training etc and would prevent the growing number of mostly unregulated courses starting that could potentially let loose well meaning amateurs on horses. My horse will be rayed again by my vet and then the remedial farrier vet and podiatrist will make an informed scientific decision about the best course of action.
 
jacmac said:
I think I should quickly explain before anyone jumps to anymore conclusions, we are not talking wedge heels, more likely bar shoes with pads, which will have no more of an effect than the the boots with pads he is currently wearing. He is now much better today and I must say that I agree with the comment it is probably because he has a poor sole, he does. He was slightly lame before trim and has multiple problems so unfair to place blame on trimmer, who has not just gone in all guns blazing but trimmed according to xrays. His whole environment was discussed, he is on a suitable fibre based diet and the environment is suitable for the transition phase, I just think it is a little bit of bad luck that this has happened. He is an ex racehorse and has a tendency to hare off like a lune in the field so could quite easily have stood on a stray stone etc. The same podiatrist has also completed a consultation and trim with my 18 year old who has cushings related laminitic and there has been quite a dramatic improvement since his visit, digital pulse gone and he is much more comfortable, so I would be very wary of making judgements and criticising trim techniques, each horse is an individual, which is the whole principal behind applied equine podiatry.
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Your orginal post wrote as if your horse was without shoes, then trimmed, and was more sore after the trim than he was before.

Is this correct, or not?

If it is correct, then I am sorry but your faith in your EP vet sounds misplaced. No horse should walk away less capable from a trim than it came into it.

His point of view as to the harmlessness of bar shoes and pads is not shared by all of his Veterinary colleagues or farriery associates and is held by only one paid non-farrier trimmer that I have ever heard of, your vet.

I am sorry that I assumed that the shoes would be bar shoes but I am at a complete loss as to how it will help correct reverse-rotated pedal bones to stop the back of the hoof getting the sort of work it will need to beef up and correct the problem, whereas at least wedges would put the pedal bone back at the "right" angle, if only cosmetically.

I would also be extremely surprised if your cushings horse's disappearing pulses had the slightest thing to do with a trim, unless it was caused by the additional blood flow of shoe removal at the same time. The timing would be great for diet related changes though, if the horse has grass.

I am baffled as to how you can continue to have such faith in a man who told you that your horse could work without shoes, trimmed him, and now says that was a mistake and that the horse needs bars and pads. How wrong does he have to be before you stop believing him?
 
If only us humans could have any idea what it is like to have sore feet, and have to be on them, use them for everything we do 24 hours a day - even having a lie down for the poor critter offers little relief as they have to put so much weight on them to get back up.

They cannot lie down, sit down, use crutches the same as we can - i am just appalled and would, if my vet had inflicted this to one of mine, be writing a very strong letter of complaint - was he/she working under the guise of a trimmer or a vet when they crippled your horse ?
 
Crimbowitch said:
i am just appalled and would, if my vet had inflicted this to one of mine, be writing a very strong letter of complaint - was he/she working under the guise of a trimmer or a vet when they crippled your horse ?
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The vet was the trimmer, he is dual qualified.

However, if he is the man that I am thinking he is, then at the time he qualified, his hands on training consisted of doing the same 5 day course, with the same man, three times over. Yes, you read that right.
 
I was trying to find out if the op had used the "trimmer" because he were a "vet" and to see if she had engaged him in the trim as a "trimmer" or as a "vet" - as if it were the latter i would be making a complaint to his governng body.

I am just astounded that the op has paid for her horse to be in pain, and has left it this long before doing anything about it...

I do not know whom is worse the op or the vet -trimmer.....

poor poor horse
 
Crimbowitch said:
I was trying to find out if the op had used the "trimmer" because he were a "vet" and to see if she had engaged him in the trim as a "trimmer" or as a "vet" - as if it were the latter i would be making a complaint to his governng body.

I am just astounded that the op has paid for her horse to be in pain, and has left it this long before doing anything about it...

I do not know whom is worse the op or the vet -trimmer.....

poor poor horse
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Of course, I misread you. Good question.
 
jacmac said:
Thanks all, trimmer has been out again (they are also a vet). horse has bruised sole, now wearing hoof boots and going to be shod in front with raised heel and pad as right fore very flat and typical TB the other boxy and upright. The flat foot is the problem one and it would apparently take about 6 months to get him right if we carry on barefoot and with hoof boots. He needs to grow a bit more heel to support that foot and balance feet, so I would rather get him as comfortable as possible as quickly as poss. Podiatrist is going to work with farrier to sort him out. So fingers crossed.
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OMG!!! not 6 months!!!! that's like a life time!, the feet won't improve in shoes at all, if you can't wait 6 months you probably don't need a horse.
 
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