Recurrent colic - feel like there are no more avenues to try :(

[BuzzyBea]

A very long story but I will give bullet points:
- Owned horse for nearly seven years.
- No health issues for 5 and a half years.
- Out of the blue episodes of gaseous colic started eighteen months ago.
- Episodes relatively mild until the last 6 months when have lasted much longer.
- Bloods taken and raised liver enzymes shown. Had a course of antibiotics and supplements introduced of milk thistle and legaphyton. Blood tests again after 4 weeks showed that one level is back to normal and the other was still raised but coming down. Therefore continue with supplements and retest (vet coming tomorrow.)
- Had an impaction and needed hospitalization a month ago. Luckily no surgery but part of the colon became trapped by the kidney.
- Feared the worst today as he kept going down and he only does this when he is ill. Assumed he was going to colic so lunged. Put him back in stable and went down again. Left him this time but do not think it was colic as no other of his usual symptoms (pawing, lip curling, lying prostrate, grunting) After much farting and pooing he was back on his feet on his own and eating again. His poos are very wet, smelly and he is farting big time. I'm wondering whether he has a 'tummy bug?' Sloppy poos for last 2 days and not himself.

Is this possible for him to go from such an easy, straight forward horse, healthy horse to one with all of these problems?

My fear is that if it is colic I literally have nothing more to try and I am terrified that long term I cannot keep putting him through these episodes or indeed my daughter whose horse he is. She is beside herself with worry and has lost all of her love of horses right now. For anyone else that deals with a horse that colics they will understand the constant panic about how your horse is looking, is he showing any faint signs of discomfort, is he on his feet, does he look tired? It is so wearing to deal with and I can't bear to think of him suffering without any obvious way to turn.
I am so sorry that this is such a self indulgent thread but I am at a total loss......

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Not at all self-indulgent, colic is extremely worrying.

I'm sure you will have but - have you taken his diet back to basics, worked out if there was even the smallest change in his diet/routine 18 months ago? I know someone whose horse *always* colics when he goes onto fresh grass, he needs extremely careful management.

 

[Illusion100]

So sorry to hear about this.

Have a good long chat with vet.

 

[BuzzyBea]

Not at all self-indulgent, colic is extremely worrying.

I'm sure you will have but - have you taken his diet back to basics, worked out if there was even the smallest change in his diet/routine 18 months ago? I know someone whose horse *always* colics when he goes onto fresh grass, he needs extremely careful management.

No change in diet before the colic started. Only things that have changed have been afterwards such as taking garlic out and giving protexin and coligone (plus the liver supplements mentioned above.) His feed is high fibre - hifi. local and sloppy beet. He really gorges on grass so he never goes out now without a muzzle and when he comes in he has adlib wet hay in a trickle net so he can't gorge again. He drinks lots and exercises most days.

 

[Mongoose11]

I went through this with my mare (never needing surgery but frequent colic). All it took was some very simple and cheap changes and just getting to understand that her system had somehow changed.

She can not be strip grazed
She HAS to wear a muzzle going on to new grass/long grass
She has to be stabled for part of the day 365 days a year
She is definitely better managed on yea sacc and mint

Would any of this be a change in your management? If so, they might be worth a try!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I would stop the Hi-Fi, just in case. Many horses struggle to digest alfalfa.

 

[Peregrine Falcon]

What a worry for you. Could it be worth trying charcoal (happy tummy found via internet) to help "mop" up any toxins/nasties lurking about?

 

[BuzzyBea]

So sorry to hear about this.

Have a good long chat with vet.

Luckily he is coming tomorrow anyway for annual injections and to take bloods to check liver enzyme levels.

Think talking to him is what worries me most as we have tried and done everything and when we last talked about it (before his hospitalization) between us we were running out of ideas - especially now that has had full scans and scopes etc that showed nothing abnormal apart from the impaction. We will of course talk tomorrow but I can only hope that he has a flash of inspiration!

 

[Cobbytype]

Sorry to hear that your horse is poorly.

I'm not an expert on colic, but perhaps the change in the weather has set this episode off. We've gone from -1 to +12 centigrade in the space of 24 hours and there seems to be some connection with sudden changes in weather and colic.

Given that your boy is seemingly coming back from a quite serious illness (his liver problem), it may be that he just needs time for his metabolism to get back to normal.

Sorry I can't offer a magic solution. I hope the vet has some positive news for you to spur you on for the start of 2015.

 

[BuzzyBea]

Will look into charcoal as another option - thank you
Understand about the alfalfa issue and did mention changing chaffs with the vet as also difficult for horses with liver issues to digest. For now the vet has suggested changing nothing feed wise until he colics again for certain as it will be one less thing to eliminate.

Mongoose - nothing in his management changed when his first symptoms presented themselves but I have only changed things since to try to improve matters such as muzzling, bringing in etc

 

[Peregrine Falcon]

I hope that the vet visit goes well later. Let us know how it goes.

 

[BuzzyBea]

Sorry to hear that your horse is poorly.

I'm not an expert on colic, but perhaps the change in the weather has set this episode off. We've gone from -1 to +12 centigrade in the space of 24 hours and there seems to be some connection with sudden changes in weather and colic.

Given that your boy is seemingly coming back from a quite serious illness (his liver problem), it may be that he just needs time for his metabolism to get back to normal.

Sorry I can't offer a magic solution. I hope the vet has some positive news for you to spur you on for the start of 2015.

Thank you so much. I do agree with you about the changing in the weather particularly in relation to the grass. However as he is now muzzled and only out on it for a maximum of 3 hours at the moment I don't think it will be having too much of an affect on him. Everytime we change something we are so hopeful that we have found the answer but then he colics again. At his worst point he was colicing every 2/3 weeks and then at one point he had 3 episodes in 2 days. He had his impacted colic 3 weeks ago so it seems as if the pattern might be repeating itself.My worry is that his discomfort today is brewing for a full episode tomorrow

 

[Peregrine Falcon]

Is part of the gut damaged by these bouts therefore leading to more episodes? I don't know, I'm not a vet but if something is repeatedly under attack/hurt etc then it can become weak and not function as well as it did. Just throwing ideas about.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Will look into charcoal as another option - thank you
Understand about the alfalfa issue and did mention changing chaffs with the vet as also difficult for horses with liver issues to digest. For now the vet has suggested changing nothing feed wise until he colics again for certain as it will be one less thing to eliminate.

Mongoose - nothing in his management changed when his first symptoms presented themselves but I have only changed things since to try to improve matters such as muzzling, bringing in etc

I understand the vets pov but if this were my horse, I would be thinking that it's ok for the vet to say that, he is looking at this from a purely detached scientific pov, if it were my horse, I would want to change as much as necessary - one thing at a time - until I had eliminated the symptoms. Actually - and this could be my fault - I'm not sure what has been changed since his last bout of colic And tbh, I would not want to be just adding things into the diet but eliminating whatever is causing it. Unfortunately, ime recurrent colic tends to get worse with each episode.

I hope your horse improves, OP

 

[Marchogaeth]

You've perfectly described a horse work with! We're in an almost identical situation and have recently discovered he has gastric ulcers unfortunately. Nothing showed up on any of the other tests but an endoscopy discovered them. They're the cause of all of his problems it's mainly gassy Colic he gets but has had spasmodic before, touch wood we haven't had a compaction. He's under careful Managment now and has been fine for 7months! Prior to this we'd get a gassy episode at least twice a month!

 

[BuzzyBea]

I understand the vets pov but if this were my horse, I would be thinking that it's ok for the vet to say that, he is looking at this from a purely detached scientific pov, if it were my horse, I would want to change as much as necessary - one thing at a time - until I had eliminated the symptoms. Actually - and this could be my fault - I'm not sure what has been changed since his last bout of colic And tbh, I would not want to be just adding things into the diet but eliminating whatever is causing it. Unfortunately, ime recurrent colic tends to get worse with each episode.

I hope your horse improves, OP[/QU
Thanks so much for all of your suggestions. I guess I'm so bloomin' terrified to do anything wrong now that I am a bit blinded by the obvious at times. You are right though that as long as I change only one thing at a time then I should be ok. My only thought though is that he has been on hifi for years without any problems.

 

[Moomin1]

Have you had your soil etc tested from the grazing? Also, I do sometimes wonder if muzzled horses become gassy because they are not taking in enough regularly to keep their guts working properly. If it were me (which I do with my mare who gets gaseous colic at the start of Spring unless she is closely managed) I would not muzzle but manage the turnout more closely if possible.

 

[BuzzyBea]

You've perfectly described a horse work with! We're in an almost identical situation and have recently discovered he has gastric ulcers unfortunately. Nothing showed up on any of the other tests but an endoscopy discovered them. They're the cause of all of his problems it's mainly gassy Colic he gets but has had spasmodic before, touch wood we haven't had a compaction. He's under careful Managment now and has been fine for 7months! Prior to this we'd get a gassy episode at least twice a month!

That's really interesting!! So far the vet has seen no evidence of ulcers and I'm not sure if this would have shown up in all of the tests that they did when he was in horsepital? Will ask the vet tomorrow. Do you mind me asking what the careful management consists of as you are right that everything else does sound similar?

 

[BuzzyBea]

Have you had your soil etc tested from the grazing? Also, I do sometimes wonder if muzzled horses become gassy because they are not taking in enough regularly to keep their guts working properly. If it were me (which I do with my mare who gets gaseous colic at the start of Spring unless she is closely managed) I would not muzzle but manage the turnout more closely if possible.

He has had colic at our current yard and the one we were at previously so shouldn't be caused by the soil in this case. I totally understand your comment about the muzzle which is why we are only putting him out for short periods at the moment. We tried before putting him in a pretty bare field with ad lib hay but the problem still arose every couple of weeks

 

[BuzzyBea]

I must apologise that all of my responses might appear negative. The trouble is that we seem to have covered most angles but without an answer

 

[Rocky01]

Just throwing things out there and assume these have been tested for but
Sand colic (can build up over time and then cause a problem)
Soya intolerance (check manufacturers of feed didn't change the ingredients around when it started)
Trickle net- gulping air at same time as eating
Ulcers - stomach or hind gut
Lack of bacterium in the gut from toxins built up over time with liver issue.
Anyway it's just some ideas. Hope they help. Good luck. C

 

[charlie76]

I will pm you.

 

[hairycob]

Did your vet say the raised liver enzymes were due to a liver problem? May sound daft but when my horse had atypical myopathy his liver enzymes were high because his liver was doing it's job working hard to clear toxins created by muscle breakdown so it could be that whatever is causing the colics are causing the liver enzymes to be raised without the liver being a problem at all. I was wondering if they may be a weed in the grazing that is causing the problem but you have already said it's happened at 2 yards. I wonder if there is some unidentified deep seated infection somewhere that is causing both the colic & raised liver enzymes.

 

[mega spoilt ponies]

I would have the horse scoped for gastric ulcers and try some coligone

 

[Mahoganybay]

Horse at my yard is going through recurrent colic episodes at the moment, lady who owns her is at her wits end and is trying everything. Awful to see her so upset over it all.

She has gone completely back to basics with regards to feed and vet was out on Wednesday who also advised her to stop wetting her hay as this can cause a build up of bacteria in the gut.

Such a worrying time, I hope things settle for you all.

 

[Mongoose11]

Have you had your soil etc tested from the grazing? Also, I do sometimes wonder if muzzled horses become gassy because they are not taking in enough regularly to keep their guts working properly. If it were me (which I do with my mare who gets gaseous colic at the start of Spring unless she is closely managed) I would not muzzle but manage the turnout more closely if possible.

What does 'manage the turnout more closely' mean?

 

[Maesfen]

Just throwing things out there and assume these have been tested for but
Sand colic (can build up over time and then cause a problem)
Soya intolerance (check manufacturers of feed didn't change the ingredients around when it started)
Trickle net- gulping air at same time as eating
Ulcers - stomach or hind gut
Lack of bacterium in the gut from toxins built up over time with liver issue.
Anyway it's just some ideas. Hope they help. Good luck. C

Agree with these suggestions. I'd certainly ditch the trickle net, they almost teach a horse to gorge and eat quickly when he can rather than just eat normally which often gives rise to colic. Once a horse is full it will stop eating (unless it's eating as a way to deal with stress) if a horse always has hay/haylage, it will help itself when it needs to and it won't then gorge on grass either as the stomach is already full which means you can turn out for longer too which will be more relaxing for the horse.

I'd also be tempted to take out any feeds at all and just give ad-lib hay.
If you need a supplement/medicine carrier, I would try damp warm bran or plain soaked grass (not alfalfa) nuts but not a molassed chaff at all as so many things are now sprayed on the original crops, it could be something like that that doesn't agree with your horse. http://www.northerncropdriers.co.uk/products
It's a proven fact that bran is helpful for the gut after episodes of colic and many people with originally recurring colic cases always feed it as without it, they have another colic episode on their hands. It only has to be a double handful damped with plain warm water to crumbly (not a sloppy mess). While the quality of bran has changed from the lovely broad flakes you used to get, it still has the same results. Leahurst see more colic cases than most and always use it for recovering patients with good results.
I'd also stop with the sloppy beet you're feeding now or at least make sure all the water had been drained from it before feeding; sloppy beet especially the original molassed one is notorious for giving sloppy results which are not good for stomach troubles.
Have you tried brewers yeast which is a very good digestion aid; it's the base for Pink Powder and Yea-Sac without the price tag; regular feeding of it can settle stomach problems and enhance skin and hoof condition?
A very good supplement that includes B12 is Kossolian, http://www.animalmedicationdirect.co.uk/kossolian-blood-salts-for-horses-1kg-25kg-20kg-pr-5704.html.

Has your vet been in touch with anywhere like Rossdales or vet schools for extra advice as they will see a lot more colic cases than a normal practice? it never hurts to keep up with new or different thoughts in the hope that something will be the trigger for recovery for yours?

 

[monsterwillow]

This sounds very much like a pony I owned. We actually had 3 with similar symptoms. 2 were put to sleep turned out to be liver fluke. Ask your vet to test for it. Fingers crossed for you x

 

[SadKen]

We have a horse on the yard with exactly - and I mean EXACTLY this problem. Recurrent colic every 2-3 weeks, started about 18 months ago in earnest. He's been scoped, tested and scanned to within an inch of his life with nothing found. He's on gastrogard for ulcers and steroids for a possible bowel infection, but he's had episodes whilst on these.

I believe he is also on hi-fi... I wonder if the recipe was changed 18 months ago?? It would be interesting if there's an ingredient which builds up and causes issues over a 3 week time period.

The other thing that I found when researching was enteroliths - they come from magnesium build up. If small crystals, they may not show up on a scan but if there's a lesion from an earlier problem they could be delaying transit of gut content.

I'd love cases like this to be taken up for investigation and research - there MUST be a cause and therefore must be a solution, but it seems that conservative management is the only real option at present.

I'll mention your thread to the owner OP - it might be worth getting your heads together. Hope the vet visit goes well.

 

[Fun Times]

I am not casting doubt on your vet, but do wonder if it would be worth him/her getting a second opinion. Purely because a fresh pair of eyes can bring a whole new perspective to a situation. I too would be wondering about sand colic as my understanding is that it builds in the gut over time. I would also scope for ulcers if not done already. Good luck OP, I hope you manage to find a solution as this must be awful to deal with.