RED Ribbon In Tail,

Are you a Sitter or a Hoverer in public loos?

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nikkinoo

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I have heard some people say that by putting a red ribbon in a horses tail is admiting that They are "a kicker or dangerous horse" and are liable if their horse was to kick someone or something, and the way things are going these days people are quick to try and sue you for anything.

Just wondering what your honest oppinions are?
 
I wouldn't say it was admitting liability, especially as you have warned them.
In my opinion, if their horse got kicked it would be their fault as you've warned them!
 
No because under the Animals Act 1971 you are already liable for anything your animals do
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If you have a red ribbon there, and they choose to get too close, how can that be your fault - you have warned them. I don't think it would stand up in court. I can see where you are coming from (bit like the flare up over wearing a 'young horse' tabbard on the road is admitting it might cause an accident) but by this reasoning any learner (driver) involved in an accident would automatically be blamed...
 
im my opinion its simply being responsible BUT in todays society, you could very well end up being sued as you have 'admitted' your horse is a kicker. Just like you shouldnt wear tabards that say 'caution young horse'. Its totally stupid!
 
My horse wears a red ribbon in his tail because the owners tell me he has kicked in the past (though only when someone used his bum to stop out hunting and TBH, I can't imagine many horses who wouldn't kick out at that
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), though I've never known him to.

I try my best to keep my horse away from others, or his backend at least, but there is only so much I can do. If someone is totally stupid and comes careering into the back of him then I'm afraid it's their own fault if they get kicked. I have done everything possible to keep him away from others so if they don't pay attention to the red ribbon, what can I do?

Common sense needed on both sides I think!
 
When my horse was young he had a habit of bucking and lashing out with his left hind leg - not aimed at anyone/thing but just exuberant. He did make contact with a couple of people who were too close and although he hasn't done anything like that for about 4 years I still put a red ribbon in his tail if we're riding in company. If I didn't, and someone got hurt, to my mind that would be irresponsible of me as I'm fully aware that the horse might kick.
 
if my horse has a red ribbon in his tail, and you choose to ram up his backside, then its your own fault when he double barrels you...
 
Well, there is strict liability with horses so no matter what you do or don't admit, you are liable for what they do. The same goes for whatever is written on the tabard you ride in. Exactly why you should have a BHS gold membership which offers personal liability cover with it.
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It is all weighed up as to what is considered 'reasonable care'. Have you taken all steps possible to ensure your horse is not going to kick another? Are you riding responsibly? Have you made others aware yours is a kicker by putting a red ribbon in its tail? I would say if you have a kicker or even a horse which you view as a possible kicker you have a duty to put a red ribbon in its tail. If someone is then silly enough to get up your horses bum, whilst you are acting reasonably, i can see no reason for you to be held liable.
 
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It is all weighed up as to what is considered 'reasonable care'. Have you taken all steps possible to ensure your horse is not going to kick another? Are you riding responsibly? Have you made others aware yours is a kicker by putting a red ribbon in its tail? I would say if you have a kicker or even a horse which you view as a possible kicker you have a duty to put a red ribbon in its tail. If someone is then silly enough to get up your horses bum, whilst you are acting reasonably, i can see no reason for you to be held liable.

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Erm, the Animals Act, and case law that determines strict liability to horse owners for their animals actions....
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I really depends on what you may be admitting liability for. In real terms any damage caused buy a horse to persons or property is generally going to seen as an accident. The alternative is to prove that the animals owners negligence caused the damage.

You could argue that warnings, (ribbons and tabbards for that matter) demonstrate a clear lack of negligence (sorry for the double negative, not feeling well and brain not working). Having said that, the English legal system is not always as intuative as you would expect.
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I wouldn't say it is admitting liability as i thought putting the red ribbon in the tail was a warning to others that they are known for kicking.
 
The Animal Act does mean that there is strict liability but you can still argue contributory neglegence in terms of payment amount.

If I ride a horse with a red ribbon it will be at the back but equally if someone then sees fit to ram themselves up my arse etc and get kicked I can argue that although I have resposibilty for the horse, their claim value should be less due to their contributory negligence.
 
As per my post earlier, I had 2 incidences where I was in a warm up and had horses backing up into me and threatening to kick

1. When I was approaching a jump
2. When I was going the right way and they had to come off of the track and pass left to left.

It was not a case of me being to close/ramming up bottoms etc.

I think, if your horse kicks, it is your responsibility to conrtol it/pass safely etc NOT the other people riding around you. Of course they should be aware and not ride like numptys, but ultimately it is your responsibility not to put your horse in a situation where it is dangerous to others.

This goes for other aspects of riding too, such as considerate jumping in warm ups/keeping distance out hacking etc.

We all have a responsibility to be aware of our horses actions and try our best to conrtol them.
 
TBH I'm surprised by the amount of riders that do not know what a red ribbon signifies - it was one of the first things I was taught. I never remembered what the other colours meant, but I never forgot about the red ribbon.
 
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I really depends on what you may be admitting liability for. In real terms any damage caused buy a horse to persons or property is generally going to seen as an accident. The alternative is to prove that the animals owners negligence caused the damage.

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No, there is no need to prove negligence. There is strict liability. You are responsible for the damage your horse causes, that is an established legal fact, enforced by statute and case law!!!
 
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I'd assume the majority of sane and sensible people would know better than to run around her bum!


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Unfortunatly many dont! We will be using a red ribbon this year, pony dosnt kick, but can get upsett and has been known to 'lift a leg' at shows when other people who dont seem to have any brakes use her bum as a stopping post
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I use a red ribbon every time i go away to a show, as it stops people from charging up taz's bum, he has been known to kick and buck when a horse gets to close to the back of him, and pull the grumpy faces hence the red ribbon for people to keep away if they cannot respect the red ribbon then that is their problem so it is not accepting liability on my part i know he can kick but if they get too close im not paying a penny!
 
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I'd assume the majority of sane and sensible people would know better than to run around her bum!


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Unfortunatly many dont! We will be using a red ribbon this year, pony dosnt kick, but can get upsett and has been known to 'lift a leg' at shows when other people who dont seem to have any brakes use her bum as a stopping post
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In fairness, ONCE (and ONLY ONCE!) FC managed to ram another horse up her own bum and then got stroppy with it.

But that was the first time I'd ever seen her back up like a crazy mare and then try and kick. It was a pretty big show and a pretty small collecting ring - and FC HATES collecting rings with a passion - she wants to go out and do her thang!

I put the red ribbon on because now I know ramming a horse up her derrier upsets her. But she's never kicked out of spite in her life. Don't think she knows how to!
 
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if they cannot respect the red ribbon then that is their problem so it is not accepting liability on my part i know he can kick but if they get too close im not paying a penny!

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I'm getting the feeling you don't really understand how strict liability and civil law works....
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If anything it probably excludes liability; the red ribbon indicates the horse kicks, if you go near it you may be kicked, you go near it, you get kicked - your fault.

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*sighs in exasperation*
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If anything it probably excludes liability; the red ribbon indicates the horse kicks, if you go near it you may be kicked, you go near it, you get kicked - your fault.

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*sighs in exasperation*
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**echoes sigh**
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