Remedial Farriery - should horse feel worse before it feels better?!!

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Christmas Crumpet

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Just asking this question, I know in my heart that the horse should never feel worse after having something changed like shoes.

My little horse has been shod with a inclined frog support shoe due to her counter rotated pedal bones and collapsed heels in both front feet.

The inclined frog support shoe looks like this...

http://www.jimblurton.co.uk/graduated-frog-support-bar-shoes/

Basically to my uneducated eyes, a short heartbar shoe with wedges.

She was shod on Friday, I rode her out for 10 mins on Sat. She felt ok ish and quite lively but she had been shut in her stable for 24 hours and not ridden for 3 days. Sun felt a bit worse and def not her usual self.

Today she felt absolutely dreadful - so hollow and tight in her back, taking tiny steps esp. down hill. She felt so awful I cried like a small child and led her home.

I can only think it would be the shoes because she's had collapsed heels for yonks and its only in the last 2 days she's felt like she has.

She is booked back into vets on Fri. What is worrying me is that the shoes are doing more harm than good if she could feel so awful to ride three days after having the shoes put on.

Any thoughts? I know I asked about collapsed heels and wedges the other day to which most people said go barefoot. I went with what vet suggested because that's what you do when you pay someone for their opinion. I am not knowledgeable enough re: feet to be able to tell a farrier and a vet how to do their job. I will be getting those shoes taken off if they are the reason though!!

Have also put in NL.
 
I had this happen, farrier put on PLR shoes, which I thought looked too small, my boy was very uncomfortable after a couple of days I had enough, and had them taken off, we are barefoot now and my horse is much happier!
 
All I will say is there is no magic trim or shoe that will turn an unhealthy hoof into a healthy one.

It may bring temporary relief and create a pleasing aesthetic.....but it's still an unhealthy hoof - inside and out :(.

Hope your horse feels better soon.

Maybe look into getting your vet to refer to Rockley?
 
ick ick ick nasty heartbar shoes :mad::mad:

Get them off!

These are what crippled my TB - he is currently having some barefoot rehab.
Getting the shoes off for a while and addressing the diet should sort the feet out and you will be amazed at how quickly.

Do I get a gold star Oberon? :D:D

Good luck with it as I really feel for you.
 
There are quite a few farriers I'd like to nail shoes on, not my horses, but the farriers feet, see how they like it!
 
Always Henesy said:
Do I get a gold star Oberon? :D:D
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I really feel for owners in this situation.

You listen to the professionals as they are meant to be the experts.

But when faced with a horse in pain - you feel torn in the middle :(
 
Personally I wouldn't feel it was right if the horse was less comfy in shoes than previously.

I'd suggest either asking a reputable trimmer to take a look and offer a different opinion and/or asking a different reputable farrier for a different opinion too.

Also have a look at some of the barefoot sites like Pete Ramey's website, as they tend to have plenty of photos on showing how feet have been rehabbed from different problems, so you might find some that look like your horse, and it might give you a possible different approach?

In the meantime, I'd be really observant of how your horse is moving, and whether they are landing toe first, heel first, medial/lateral first and whether they are weighting or unweighting any foot/feet, eg the rocking back stance or tucking their hind legs right under themselves like they do with laminitis....... and act quickly if you see anything along those lines.

Hope you find a good way forward.

Sarah
 
carolineb said:
Just asking this question, I know in my heart that the horse should never feel worse after having something changed like shoes. Your horse is right, you're right, the experts need to listen to you both or you need new experts

My little horse has been shod with a inclined frog support shoe due to her counter rotated pedal bones and collapsed heels in both front feet.

The inclined frog support shoe looks like this...

http://www.jimblurton.co.uk/graduated-frog-support-bar-shoes/

Basically to my uneducated eyes, a short heartbar shoe with wedges.

She was shod on Friday, I rode her out for 10 mins on Sat. She felt ok ish and quite lively but she had been shut in her stable for 24 hours and not ridden for 3 days. Sun felt a bit worse and def not her usual self.

Today she felt absolutely dreadful - so hollow and tight in her back, taking tiny steps esp. down hill. She felt so awful I cried like a small child and led her home.

I can only think it would be the shoes because she's had collapsed heels for yonks and its only in the last 2 days she's felt like she has.

She is booked back into vets on Fri. What is worrying me is that the shoes are doing more harm than good if she could feel so awful to ride three days after having the shoes put on.

Any thoughts? I know I asked about collapsed heels and wedges the other day to which most people said go barefoot. I went with what vet suggested because that's what you do when you pay someone for their opinion. I am not knowledgeable enough re: feet to be able to tell a farrier and a vet how to do their job. I will be getting those shoes taken off if they are the reason though!!

Have also put in NL.
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Do it, if your horse is in discomfort and you know how to do something about it by having the shoes taken back off, do it. Don't trust them to be giving you the right advice, honestly. No those wedges don't make them feel worse before they get better, they either make them feel better before they get worse or, more often, they make them feel worse before they get worse.
 
I agree. Get those shoes taken off. If you are worried about going barefoot and your insurance is paying for remedial farriary, then you might want to consider imprint (glue on) shoes. My mare is now in them after being comfortably barefoot for two years (before getting laminitis). Sadly one of her feet flattened afterwards and I couldn't get her sound. The imprints have meant I am back riding her after 3 years retirement due to a shoulder injury. I am planning to keep them on her until December and then try to go barefoot again.
 
One of mine has the bar shoes on at the moment, without the wedges, the vet wanted to put wedges on but my farrier is very against using them so we opted for middle ground. The horse has had 3 pairs now, he is totally sound and has competed to date in them, he is going barefoot, on farriers advice in a few weeks time to allow feet to continue recovery.
The vet is ok with this but would have preferred to use the wedges even though the horse would probably have gone lame by using them, he has never been unsound just having a few jumping issues, hopefully going without shoes will resolve his rotation.
 
I had various problems with my horse's feet and resorted to remedial farriery. The first remedial farrier put heart bar shoes with wedges on - horse basically refused to move forwards properly. I showed the vet who said "horse doesn't look happy, take them off". Which I did.

I then went to Haydn Price (farriery God!) he shod the horse with bar shoes and pads - horse was a tiny bit sore after the first day but within a week I could see he was much happier. After 6 months shoeing with Haydn problem was totally sorted.

So in short, listen to your horse. If he's uncomfortable/in pain - I'd say take the shoes off and get a second opinion.
 
Ok so a couple of photos whilst she was being shod. I can always go out and take some of her with her shoes on!!

001.jpg

Near fore - lamest leg

004.jpg

Off fore - not so lame (hole where seedy toe been dug out)

003.jpg

Front view - doesn't look pretty!
 
Wow, thats some impressive surgery!! Maybe we can go into competition!! :O:O

photo0114-1-1.jpg


I weep looking at my photos now. Caroline, I think you know what you have to do. The vet, the farrier do not own your horse, YOU do and only YOU can actually help him when all is said and done.

You have to get those shoes off.

This is what I would do: buy hoofboots £80 pair of decent cavallos. You can ride in these no problem, they are brilliant.

Make sure he is on a hi-fibre diet, add a bit of linseed maybe. Get a decent trimmer while he is growing a new hoof capsule until you want to shoe him again. In my experience they do a better job trimming a barefoot horse than a farrier does. (try uknhcp or epauk)

It took us only a few months before we were hacking again and then we went out and did this the following autumn.. yes I know, I'm rubbish at jumping :D

IMG_5959-1.jpg
 
Any front feet that have had double front clip shoes applied to me are a red flag. It shows that the farrier has been chasing back the toe for sometime due to the foot underruning.

These feet have near ground parallel pedal bones, hence the advice to put them in wedge bar shoes, however he has good basic hooves, and strong looking legs, which usually means they rehabilitate pretty well when taken out of shoes.

I'd take them off and rehabilitate them in a heatbeat, it will take time, and expert advice, but it will give you the best result.
 
carolineb said:
Just asking this question, I know in my heart that the horse should never feel worse after having something changed like shoes.

My little horse has been shod with a inclined frog support shoe due to her counter rotated pedal bones and collapsed heels in both front feet.

The inclined frog support shoe looks like this...

http://www.jimblurton.co.uk/graduated-frog-support-bar-shoes/

Basically to my uneducated eyes, a short heartbar shoe with wedges.

She was shod on Friday, I rode her out for 10 mins on Sat. She felt ok ish and quite lively but she had been shut in her stable for 24 hours and not ridden for 3 days. Sun felt a bit worse and def not her usual self.

Today she felt absolutely dreadful - so hollow and tight in her back, taking tiny steps esp. down hill. She felt so awful I cried like a small child and led her home.

I can only think it would be the shoes because she's had collapsed heels for yonks and its only in the last 2 days she's felt like she has.

She is booked back into vets on Fri. What is worrying me is that the shoes are doing more harm than good if she could feel so awful to ride three days after having the shoes put on.

Any thoughts? I know I asked about collapsed heels and wedges the other day to which most people said go barefoot. I went with what vet suggested because that's what you do when you pay someone for their opinion. I am not knowledgeable enough re: feet to be able to tell a farrier and a vet how to do their job. I will be getting those shoes taken off if they are the reason though!!

Have also put in NL.
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I would get another remedial to check her out.


doesnt sound right .


Sorry to hear bout your little horse I have
http://www.andrew-poynton.co.uk/

booked for next week he is VERY high in Remedial Farrier and he is an examiner too for other farriers found him on the web

so he has seen my mares xrays and I know its costly but nothing is too good for my horse.
 
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horselover522 said:
What happened to Billy Crothers? I thought he could do no wrong?
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Who says he has????:rolleyes: "looks back at her threads" "nope can't see it sorry"


I do not have to explain to you or anyone, why we have a treatment with Andrew-Poynton.

simples. Why certain people always have to question what a member does or why they do it is beyond me.

My post is for OP so they get another opinion why their horse is sore after shoeing.

OP I would get a second opinion from someone else (your choice who) ask your vet as well nip this in the bud before it gets worst.
 
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This is my mares' LF after 4 years in heartbars

DSC04431.jpg


2011-09-27171230.jpg


And a year later (still a work in progress)

2012-09-16165401.jpg


I will never agree with the use of heartbars again. It's not like they even worked anyway. But at the time, i didn't know there was alternative.
 
Is your horse standing as shown in the pic a lot? With front legs back behind the vertical plane? I would be interested to know if they're also standing with their hind feet tucked underneath a bit.

It looks to me as though they're trying desperately to not put weight on something that's hurting a lot.
 
They don't like very dramatic to me, I've seen far, far scarier than that, although they are putting a lot of pressure where they are under the heels.

I would listen to the barefoot lot though, OP. Your horse's feet look like they are very stressed and are in poor condition. This stuff just isn't going to sort it out and your most immediate problem is that you don't even think these shoes are making your horse feel better in the short term.

Maybe you could try a second opinion from a different vet.
 
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Pale Rider said:
Lol.
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:rolleyes: sad so sad that you find it amusing that another member makes a stupid statement like that.

But we have come to expect stupid comments from you so its hardly surprising I guess. They do say small things amuse small minds.

Since OP wanted advice and I merely used what I was doing as an example.

Your a typical AWBUA on here sadly there is no cure.
 
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It can be really difficult to go against vet's advice, but they're not gods, just educated mortals who sometimes get it wrong. Perhaps get a recommendation for a barefoot trimmer who could have a look give you support for a different treatment route.
 
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