Reoccuring Azoturia - My poor friend is in bits :(

[**Vanner**]

Hi all,

My friend has a 6 year old TB x mare. She has had a rough ride (including my friend having her pelvis broken) with her really but is now being faced with a possible horrid descision.

My friend's mare keeps tying-up; we are talking the whole dripping sweat, red urine the lot. She had three bouts of it in succession about 2 months ago after which my friend took her for convalesence to be out 24/7 at another friend's field.

She has now brought her back to the yard to try and get her back into work. Yesterday as she was bringing her in from the field (she is having daily turnout), which requires walking up a hill, she tyed up again!

She is on hay and a handful of happy hoof.

Any advice or hope for the future would really be appreciated.

 

[dilbert]

((hugs )) to your friend.

Might be worth having a look at some of the stuff on EPSM (my cob has it).

There's a good yahoo group - also look up Dr Kellon and some really good stuff here

http://www.ruralheritage.com/vet_clinic/epsm.htm and if you google EPSM and Beth Valentine.


I think it would be worth her trying her horse on an EPSM diet - low starch, no cereals, some people feed fat (as per Beth Valentine diet) while others feed Alcar (as per Dr Kellon). My boy is a very good doer so we go with Dr Kellon but I know lots of peeople have good results with Beth Valentine stuff - she is really helpful you can just email her for advice.

These horses also need lots of exercise (daily ideally) but have to be built up very slowly - we're still on relatively short walking hacks as we have been since September.

Has she spoken to her vet yet? They can help diagnose (using a muscle biopsy) as they're are other prblems that also cause recurrently tying up. If you google EPSM on here you'll find some more info

Good luck x

 

[be positive]

Having worked with horses for many years, including racehorse and fit hunters, I had never experienced tying up until a few years ago when I had 2 mares in at livery both tied up, one very slightly the vet and I thought it was colic at first until it happened again, then the second mare also.
Thoughts from my experience, they were both only in very light work, daily turnout, rugged, on nominal feeds, I felt they were really low risk compared with the horses I had previous experience with.
The hay was of very good quality that year and I felt it was the main contributor, it was the bulk of their diet, both were not inclined to do much exercise when turned out, one warmblood didnt enjoy her time in the field much anyway.
Things I would try, that you may not be doing, soak her hay it has been a good year and could be the primary cause, but probably the last thing I would have thought of. Keep her very warm and see what she does when out, if like mine she only mooches it could be worth putting her in company, if not already or a paddock paradise type system so she has to move more, mares seem to be more prone to it, both of the ones here were fine once it was addressed, although neither were too bad initially.
Not sure if this is any help but any ideas may be of some use, hope it is resolved soon.

 

[soulfull]

echo the rural heritage site email DR BETH she is amazingly friendly can gets back to you pretty fast too

My old lad had EPSM and it wasnt what he was being fed rather what he wasn't. he needed a lot of oil, I'm talking up to a litre a day at one time, also mega mega important is a vit E and selenium supplement, lack of this alone can cause bad cases of trying up
the keeping warm is also VERY important

pm me if you need more help as I am on my way out the door to see my very poorly horse

 

[Waltzing Matilda]

Ers pellets by D&H are high energy but less than 7% starch so r great for horses that tye up. Also Baileys outshine is fab for high oil in a small feed without all the.mess. it is also balanced with vit e etc so save all that business too!! Like others have said gentle build up regular exercise too. Have fingers x'ed for u. Xx

 

[MrsMozart]

I only know of it from our experience with Little Cob (13.3hh, then 7 year old, Trad Cob).

Tied up for no apparent reason. No hard work, nothing changed in his routine, etc.

The short story was: he had to be stabled for six weeks, as going out brought it back on; his feed was changed to Saracens Shape-up as it has natural Selenium and Vitamin E; added salt to his feed; made sure he had access to a sal lick at all times. He was brought back into work to the letter of a regime our vet provided.

I hope your friend finds a way of managing it, if it can be managed.

 

[**Vanner**]

Thanks for your replies everybody.

Vet has been everytime she has had an episode as it is bad and she has needed muscle relaxants and bute. Vet has suggested possibly turning away for a year but she is not the kind of mare who you would expect to like this - she is a princess and defo likes her creature comforts.

 

[5horses2dogsandacat]

I haven't had a huge amount of experience, but my mare got it a couple if years ago... it was a hot summer and I had gradually been being her back into work.
What I understand is tying up is like cramp all over the body. Since my mare had it when she's in work she gets electrolytes and is also on equi jewel, which is a rice bran and helps prevent the build up of lactic acid... I might be wrong but I feel a key element is to keep the horse well hydrated.

This is just personal experience and what has seemed to have worked with my mare, def talk to the experts before making any irreversible decisions xxx

 

[trick123]

We had this problem with our 3* eventer, it got to the point where we were trying to do 3 days on him only on pony nuts as he couldn't take anything else it was rediculous and we were on the point of giving up, until we met the nutritionist from Bailey's called Caroline. We reckon ours was triggered by grazing grass that was too rich initially and stress of travelling. She put our horse on 'Outshine' and 'stud balancer'. They did a free analasys of the haylage and grass to start with though, so I think that is the best place to start.
I'm pleased to say we haven't had the same problems since and he has now completed 5 4* events with no ill effects. we are still very careful of his grazing and feed and try to keep stress levels to a minimum, and at the ripe old age of 19 he will still be competing next year, but feed nutritionists know what they are talking about and it is free so tell your friend to get in touch with them. Best of luck hope we will hear good news soon

 

[Lgd]

Would second the EPSM diet as the way to go.

Lowest starch feed we have found is the Winergy Equilibrium - the Low and the Senior are both 3.5% starch. We use the senior as it has a higher oil content.
Most horses find the quantitiy of oil needed unpalatable. We use Black Oil Sunflower Seeds (BOSS) instead to get the oil in.

Our boy competed up to medium level affiliated on the diet until arthritis ended his competitive career.