Reprimanding- Discussion

[Rachel_M]

As per the "MizElzs" thread.


What are your views on reprimanding a horse? For instance, if you read the OP- What would you have done in that situation?


What do you perceive as suitable and what takes it too far?

 

[GlamourDol]

Id probably have done what the original poster did in that situation. Iv never broken off a twig, but the horse didnt do what it was asked, (with no obvious reason as to why) and so had to be told!
Praise when good, reprimand when naughty is my oppinion.
x

 

[Christmas_Kate]

It really depends on the situation. if it's a first time, I'd probably just get off and lead, but if it was a continuing thing I might do something similar (though I always carry a whip nowadays anyway). I used to ride a horse who was terrible for planting himself. I really struggled, till one day i just got fed up and gave him three short sharp smacks, and he shot foward like a cat out of a bag (it obviously hurt). He only had to have a gentle tap from that day on.

 

[madhector]

well hopefully I would have remembered my stick and then horse would have had a sharp smack with that instead of having to break of part of a tree

I refuse to dismount and lead unless the situation is actually dangerous to either me or the horse

 

[Honeypots]

I would never use my whip as a punishment, only behind the leg to reinforce the leg aid..
In MissElz situation I would have got off, led it across and got on with my ride. Reward good behaviour, ignore bad. I think whipping the horse will just make the situation stick in the horses mind for next time and to leave raised marks is horrible. I'd be pretty mortified if I'd done that to my horse.

 

[FRESHMAN]

Actually I feel that she 100% did the right thing. Too many people P*** about when horses are napping. Sorry but IMHO & within reason they go where you ask. I would not tolerate any nappy behaviour.

 

[FRESHMAN]

As a comparison look at what has happened to the youths of today now that even a parent cannot punish them.

 

[Christmas_Kate]

But there's a huge difference between fear and naughtiness. If your horse was naughty each time would you keep getting off and letting it get away with it?

 

[SAL66]

Its a toughee, but I would probably do the same if I had tried everything else first, obviously if the horse was frightened that that would be a different thing altogether, I wouldn't get off and lead if he was being naughty past experiences tell me that I have even less control.
My horse got a smack the other night with the whip after returning from a hack i wanted to go in the school, No he wasn't having any of it I tried and tried without the whip but had to resort to a couple of hardish smacks on the rump.He went in and he knew he was naughty, leading then was not an option , I am the boss and he does as he is told hopefully in a nice calm manner, but there are always exceptions.There is no right or wrong IMHO.Obviously constant using of the whip is wrong, I aslo never hack out with out taking mine, touching him on shoulder reminds him to be have.

 

[JM07]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually I feel that she 100% did the right thing. Too many people P*** about when horses are napping. Sorry but IMHO & within reason they go where you ask. I would not tolerate any nappy behaviour.

[/ QUOTE ]

same here.....

i would NEVER dismount from a napping horse...encourages it IMO....

 

[honeymum]

I too agree with the OP, horse would have received a good smack. I don't tolerate bad behaviour and as far as I am concerned getting off backs this up as then every time horse is naughty he knows you will get off and plays on this.

 

[the watcher]

Depends on whether you view it as punishment or encouragement to go forward. i will use a stick to send a horse forward if there is no good reason for them not to do it. I won't use a stick or anything else to punish a horse (which is what a reprimand is) except my bare hand - and then only immediately after the event

 

[Super_Kat]

I would have done the same thing as the OP in the other thread. Too many people pussyfoot around when a horse is being a prat.

 

[Christmas_Kate]

[ QUOTE ]
I would have done the same thing as the OP in the other thread. Too many people pussyfoot around when a horse is being a prat.

[/ QUOTE ]

exactly, and then they wonder why their horse takes the pi**.

A lady i used to know had a real thing with horses. She would spend all day chatting to them whilst doing the stables, riding etc. If they were naughty her voice changed, and they KNEW it. She'd just have to growl and they'd back off heads down.

Whn out exercising they knew if they mucked about she would use the whip, and as a result no horse ever disobeyed her more than once. But they all adored her........

 

[vicijp]

In that situation the horse would have had 3 round the ring within seconds of planting.
Its all about the timing.
Do it properly once and you will never need to again.

 

[Tinkerbee]

Whats suitable depends entirely on the horse...

Pinks- all you have to do is raise your voice and shes a wreck.

Thyme- On one occasion had to batter him with the whip I was holding and yank his chain round his nose...

but he was being a tw** and it was a dangerous situation

 

[FRESHMAN]

Absolutely spot on. Instant sharp short shock.

 

[WishfulThinker]

I would have done what she did. Whip was NOT used as a punishment (if folk read it as that they need to read it again) but to back up her leg aid that the horse was intentionally ignoring. Her horse was NOT scared, it was playing with her.

Like many have said, you cant let them take the pi$$, not when they weight sometimes 10 times as much as you. Just cos u use a whip does not mean u are abusing them. In the wild they misbehave and they get reprimanded, in the field they pee off dtheir mates, they get a boot or a bite. We are their 'masters' as well as friends, then NEED to respect us otherwise its not really safe to ride them. If they disobey they need to know of they will never learn.

 

[Honeypots]

[ QUOTE ]
But there's a huge difference between fear and naughtiness. If your horse was naughty each time would you keep getting off and letting it get away with it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't consider getting off as letting them get away with it.

 

[Christmas_Kate]

no, you're teaching them if they plant themselves then you'll get off.

 

[gloster_image]

I would have done 100% same thing as the OP. If you get off and lead it the only thing you are going to do is teach the horse that "if i do this she gets off" and you would therefore reinforce the behavious positively. Give the horse something negative as a reaction to it/something difficult (Work it harder etc) it will work out itself that the more pleasent easy thing to do is behave.

 

[Honeypots]

[ QUOTE ]
no, you're teaching them if they plant themselves then you'll get off.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your opinion!!
My opinion...experience tells me I'm not..........

 

[carmenlucy123]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would have done the same thing as the OP in the other thread. Too many people pussyfoot around when a horse is being a prat.

[/ QUOTE ]

exactly, and then they wonder why their horse takes the pi**.

A lady i used to know had a real thing with horses. She would spend all day chatting to them whilst doing the stables, riding etc. If they were naughty her voice changed, and they KNEW it. She'd just have to growl and they'd back off heads down.

Whn out exercising they knew if they mucked about she would use the whip, and as a result no horse ever disobeyed her more than once. But they all adored her........

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree with you both... iv broke off a part of a tree many a times.

 

[Fantasy_World]

I also agreed with what MizElz did as I would have done exactly the same in her position if I did not have my whip with me.
Yes I will reprimand horses that are naughty. Indeed the big lad will get a slap on his chest sometimes between the legs if he plays up with the farrier.
The farrier is very, experienced and one of the best imo and I trust his judgement.
There is no reason why he plays up with one of his forelegs ( he even does it when being picked out). Not all the time but some of the time. He will go to kick out at you with his leg or snatch up or put down quickly or not even lift at all. No matter how kind you are or whether you grab his feathers or tweak the bag of his leg ( as I was once told by someone). Farrier believes the big lad is taking the ps and so do I.
If he does play up with that leg a sharp smack with the words lift it up works and I have no problem at all after that.
Fair enough an unhandled horse or youngster would not always know what to do all the time but a horse of 16 that has 'been' around should know what is expected of him when picking out or the farrier comes. I mean even Mcfly who only really started having his feet regularly handled after we got him last September is better behaved. He was originally scared and with the farrier too. Now sorted through time and patience though and he is so good he will even start to lift his feet before you get to them in turn.
Which imo proves that horses do develop bad habits which I believe should be nipped in the bud at the first sign to prevent any future problems.
I agree with the watcher though and any reprimand given needs to be at the time the incident occurred. To reprimand a horse even minutes later would have no positive effect at all imo.
Big lad is nappy when out and as I have said if kicking on doesn't work then a sharp crack and stop being silly works.

 

[Tinkerbee]

Have just read the other post and agree totally with OP

Horse was taken the p*** and needed told, firmly. Have done similair myself

 

[gloster_image]

However having just read the post again I would have used another option as well - which would be to sit there and "nag" til the sun goes down not giving in until the horse goes forward. However, that takes a lot of time and a lot of patience!!!

I repeat FROM EXPERIENCE the last thing on earth you should EVER do is get off and lead - I mean for god sake that is positive reinforcement for being a prat. Horse learns that if it prats about the rider gets off - never ever get off unless horse is genuinly frightened or the situation is getting dangerous

 

[Christmas_Kate]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
no, you're teaching them if they plant themselves then you'll get off.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your opinion!!
My opinion...experience tells me I'm not..........

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, scenario: you've got a horse who hasnt been taught well. Every time you lead it it rears up, plants iteself (and NOTHING you do will make it budge.. and it often does this in the middle of a road) or barges off with you. You've tried be nice halters, tried walking ahead, not looking back, walking at the shoulder, leading in a bridle....

Do you a) pander about teaching it to 'be a good boy' knowing full well it's laughing at you whilst dragging you down the road.
Or do you b) carry a whip and give it a smack when it walks all over you?

 

[oliviacharley]

Im not really going to say yes or no to this thread...the only thing I really want to say is that a horse allows you to sit on its back, it jumps because it wants to and it does things for you because it loves you and respects you...If it doesnt want to do something, no matter how hard you hit it or push it, it wont...end of....my thread on the other page my not come across in the right light to what other people have said. I believe in firmness but also gentleness and yes if a horse is playing up then a firm smack does sometimes work. The horses I have ridden in the past and done that to have just made them worse....I find that I only have to raise my voice around my horses and thats enough....I think its how you are as a person really and how your horse behaves.

 

[carmenlucy123]

i have to say when my mare napped... i would get off and lead sometimes.

i did this because i know my mare needs a routine and if i just turn up as and when she will not entertain me at all.

i put her out on loan to a lady who rode with her daughter so when i took her back i could not get her off the yard alone.

so i just kept getting on and off as long as she went past whatever it was she was "using" to napp i didnt care.

however i wont do it now iv got her back on side and i dont take any nonsense now we've been through that.

its funny to think that she was like that a year ago because she rarely does it now and a quick growl and a smack stops it.

however i wouldnt advise getting off... i did it because i was regaining trust in mildred and she in me....and because there are river trenches either side of the road and shed back into them and honestly i would poop it, which i can say no horse has ever made me poop it like mildred did when i was having trouble with her. but we managed to get through it but i always see it as an underlying problem and if i leave her again i know it will come back

does that make sense?

anyway that girl who posted that before was compleatly right... although some people dont like it i think it went a bit awol

 

[gloster_image]

You know I agree with you completely on this Katy!

And also (my opinion) I think this is entirely why there are so many horses on "project horses" and the like. Too many people trying to take on "natural" methods without properly learning them and without realising that no matter how natural you are discipline is still needed (with or without a whip!). Look at Richard Maxwell. His horses trust and adore him, but he does NOT let them walk all over him - he DOES use a whip when needed and he also gives them a "bop" on the nose when needed.
The extreme of either approaches IMO is ridiculous, take the best from both! Plus each horse differs - no horse is the same.