rescue dog has just gone for someone in my house

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blood_magik

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Dog has been with me for just over four weeks and seemed to have settled in well.

However, he had just lunged at someone in the house.
I have painters in today and he had already met the person before he went for him - thankfully he was only able to get the person's t-shirt so no damage/injuries. Obviously behaviour is unacceptable.

He hasn't done anything like this before and nothing was mentioned by the rescue. He let go when I smacked/shouted at him.

What would you do in my position?
There were no warning signs and the dog wasn't provoked - He'll be muzzled in public from now on because I just can't risk him doing it again and hurting someone.
I'm waiting on someone from the rescue phoning me back.

I'm absolutely gutted. :(
 
Oh no. I can't give you any advice, I'm sure someone will be along soon who can but I imagine he is finding his feet a bit, like a young horse would. I hope it is easily nipped in the bud.
 
I wouldn't be too hard on him actually - strange people in the house, strange smells, strange noises, maybe ladders and clanging etc, and to be honest if he wanted to have done damage he would have done damage and bitten him, not ragged a t-shirt - obviously it was unacceptable but to be fair he was put in an uncomfortable position

I don't have my dog loose in the house with any visitors, when I check who is at the door he goes in his crate or outside in his kennel - he is naturally suspicious and quite defensive of his territory and his people, I know this, so I do not put him in the position where he or a guest feel uncomfortable or he feels he has to defend me or the house.

The simple answer is keep him curtailed when you have visitors, remove the stress and continue to enjoy him.
If he is this way inclined I would not allow him to be too 'free' in the house or on the furniture. JMO though.
 
I wouldn't be too hard on him either. There will have been a trigger.

My uncle has a dog that you sometimes need to be a little careful around, but it's fear aggression with him - and he would most certainly have a little go at a stranger in the house. I certainly wouldn't start muzzling him.

Keep the dog and the painters separate.
 
PS there are almost always warning signs, once you have had him a bit longer you will start to notice them more - my dog does a 'swooshy' thing with his tail, he is NOT wagging his tail, he is not comfortable with the situation.
He also avoids eye contact.
Some dogs really don't like being stared at and you'd be surprised how many dogs do not like being patted or touched on the head.
Added to that your dog is a rescue and you don't know what negative associations he may have with some sights, sounds, men or clothes. Would you believe, my dog hates it when I have had a drink on board - I've had him since he was about 14 weeks so I know he wasn't battered by an alcoholic, he just does not like the smell of alcohol on me, I can tell by his body language.
 
thanks for the advice.

should have said that he was in the living room with me and I had the doors closed before the person knocked so they had been separated.
I usually put him in the living room when the door goes anyways.

Obviously I need to sort this out asap - the rescue has a behaviourist/trainer so I'm waiting to talk to her.
in the meantime he'll be going down to my parent's house while the painters are in.

I'll look into crating.
 
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Go on any forum and you'll find threads about dogs who have issues around visitors, entrances, doorways etc. It's really not that uncommon and relatively easy to solve by either being very careful about where the dog is or creating a positive association with visitors and door knocking and it's usually a problem we have unwittingly contributed to.
You put him in the living room normally when the door goes and this intruder (he only met Dave the Painter once, he has no idea he is a thoroughly nice chap) DARED to enter his safe place with him and Mum!
Please try not to stress x
 
Good advice from CC, I would only add make sure you are firm with your bounderies and dont allow them to slip, dont panic I dont think he is a man-eater but you now know what he is capable of so take precautions. I think talking to a behaviourist is a good idea and hopefully with contained situations this will be a one off.
 
OP I feel sorry for you I know how upsetting it can be when your dog shows behaviour like this but don't be too hard on him. One of my rescues has fear aggression - A couple of times he has lunged, gone for clothing (tshirt hem, and trouser legs) never intending harm or inflicting damage just trying his best to tell me that he wasn't happy when I should have read the situation, his body language, and removed him from it earlier.
Also, I know without a doubt that strangers in the house, just hearing them the other side of a door etc. would definitely stress him.
For now just try and control the situations he is exposed to and perhaps looking into some training? You don't need a specific problem to go to a trainer with - just basic training will improve your relationship with him , his confidence in you and you can train in automatic behaviours such doorbell = into his crate until he's released
 
OP, don't panic and don't be too hard on him. If he wanted to bite, he would have. He just gave a little "back off" as probably feeling very insecure.

My Collie Stig has nipped people in the house in the past. Always was a fear/nervous response but we are now at a point where anyone can come and go and he's fine. It takes a long time, but it only started getting better when we stopped getting annoyed and started making it all positive for him.

I personally would change your mindset to this.

At the moment you are seeing it as a negative thing. Swap that. I actually think it is extremely positive that you have had a chance to see that he has this little issue without anyone actually getting hurt. Knowledge is everything and now you know what you are dealing with.

I really wouldn't worry about it too much. You know now, so you can take the appropriate precautions and do the necessary training, but take it easy on him, it's all still so very new for him. xx
 
(((Hugs))) I'm sorry to hear this, it is always such a shock when this sort of thing happens out of the blue. One of the problem, is that there can be several different possible explanations to what happened, and it isn't always possible to tell which one that triggered this incident.

You've already had some good advise, but here are the things that I came to think of:

I don't remember if the rescue knew anything about your dog's past? If they didn't know much about him, then who knows what he's experienced, maybe unintentionally, this person triggered some bad memory in your dog.

Where in the living room were they and you when it happened? Is it possible that he felt cornered? Or that he was trying to guard you?

If you saw it happen, and you try to think about it calmly (it is so easy to get stuck on the thought 'I can't believe he lunged at someone'), can you remember anything about your dog's body language? What would you say that it seemed as if he actually intended to do? Hurt, intimidate or something else?

You said the dog wasn't provoked, but maybe the person was looking at him in a way that for the dog = staring in the eye? Which usually in normal dog language = I challenge you, but most dogs learns that human eye-contact means something different.

If the person is a painter, is it possible that they was carrying a towel or something similar, to wipe up potential paint spillage, which your dog could have mistaken for something to play tug-of-war with?

Are you sure that your dog is physically healthy? E.g. HD-problems and similar, are known for sometimes causing unpredictable aggressive behaviour (it doesn't always happen, but it can). I've also heard about e.g. a Cocker Spaniel that became aggressive, who after many ifs and buts, was found to have a tiny piece of wood stuck somewhere in the gum, and the flesh around it had started to rot! Once he was pain free, he became his ordinary lovely self again.

But sadly, in the worse case scenario, maybe there is something wrong with him mentally/in his head, which makes him unpredictable no matter what you do.


Exactly what I would do in your situation, depends on whether I thought the behaviour was most likely caused by pain, fear aggression, dominance aggression or a misinterpreted behaviour, which was not actually intended to be aggressive. But I would probably want to begin with a thorough veterinarian check, and if they couldn't find anything, I would move on to taking him to see a dog trainer and/or dog psychologist.

I hope that you get some good advise and help from the rescue.
 
I agree with _GG_, try and see it from a different angle and learn from it, now you know he is worried in this situation, you can change it and make sure he is never put in that situation again without close monitoring, you can start working on it if you wish to help him be more comfortable, and you can start looking more for the early signs as CC has described.

It is very very early days for a rescue - we get used to them far quicker than they get used to us at times. I have always been told it takes an average of 6 months for a rescue dog to feel safe and at home, and I think in some cases this can be much longer - I know mine took 4 yrs before I would really say he was at home and truly happy. You also often get a "honeymoon period" where the dogs are on best behaviour because they are unsure, but once this is over they start exhibiting their anxieties more. I exerienced this myself - my boy was perfect for the first month and almost the first day of the second month everything went wrong - lunging, attacking, guarding, you name it we had it. He is an extreme example, but it taught me not to take behaviour for granted until a dog has been around a lot longer than a month, because you never know what might surface.

Find a good trainer, speak to the rescue to see if they have a behaviourist, and try to think about it positively. But I agree with everyone who has said that it was not what it could have been, it is a warning and needs to be taken as that but doesn't mean you now have an aggressive dog, it just means you have a dog who needs a bit more understanding of his needs until he can feel safe and confident. Hugs, it is a horrid feeling but try and move on and you will both be fine xxx
 
I've just spoken to the girl from dogs trust.
we're going in to do some training to try to get him to see visitors as a positive thing seeing as the door going is starting to set him off.

in the meantime he'll be staying at my parent's house where it's quieter and less stressful.

thanks for all the advice - it's appreciated.
 
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When I first posted, I didn't realise that the painter had knocked at the living room door, where you were with the dog. I'm no dog behaviour expert, but that seem much more sortable than a random lunge at a visitor.

Lots of good advice here from others. Good luck.
 
Good news, and a good plan :) DT in my experience are very good with giving behavioural help as most centres have a behaviourist attached - mine was literally on the end of the phone every day if I needed her, even if just to talk over that days events and help me prepare for the next! I'm sure you can work this out and in a year or two you will wonder what you were worrying about. :)
 
Glad you've contacted DT, they will be able to help. It is funny as my 'lookalike' dog is very similar although she's never lunged like yours. However, she is nervous of strangers and can look very aggressive. She does not like people to look at her or try and stroke her so I always have to tell any new people yo ignore her (people are actually harder to train though as many don't seem to know what "ignore" means!!!). Mine is tonnes better now though but she has taken to jumping up occasionally to people which is not acceptable so I am working on that at the moment. Essentially mostly she's trying to protect me a lot of the time. That's her nature and, seeing as yours is the spit if mine I suspect there's similar breeding there - I think collie/kelpie and I think in their nature they are wary dogs and not overly confident a lot of the time,
 
I would say knocking was the trigger. My dog is in the office with me and couriers just walk in and out and she strolls over to say hello. If someone (even someone she knows) knocks, she feels obliged to leap up and do the protecting the area thing.
 
I think its very sad to muzzle him, maybe speaking to the rescue place and asking them if he can be reassessed by their behaviourist is the next step.
 
It's going to sound as if I'm flying in the face of the advice offered so far, and for the sake of it. I assure you that I'm not, BUT;

The very last thing that I would do, in your shoes, is to shut the dog away, from what he either fears, or perceives as a threat. This is only likely to make matters worse. When we have a horse which we're riding, and it appears to be fearful, then instead of reinforcing that fear, by turning away, we turn it to face the threat or fear. It's the better way if we can do that with the dog too.

All so often the dog which stands up to a visitor or a strange situation is removed from that place, and then as a logical process, it's always removed and then it becomes unmanageable. Better that the painter chap is sat at the kitchen table, with a cup of tea, the dog is left to wander about, and importantly, it's ignored. Most dogs will very quickly learn that there is no threat from the visitor, and if he shows any aggression, he should be quickly made to understand that it's not his place to react to strangers.

Just about every dog which is handed in to a rescue arrives with behavioural baggage of some sort, and generally those who are parting with the dog are rather economical with the truth. Those are simple facts, I'm afraid. I've looked but haven't seen mention of the dog's age. If he's a mature animal, then his behaviour pattern may be entrenched. If he's still young, then perhaps it can be corrected.

I'd be interested in hearing what your behaviourist has to say.

Alec.
 
glad your going to work with him OP, often rescues become more protective when they find a safe place, it often settles with boundaries being put in place in a calm and consistent manner.

My little foster bitch turned to snap at me today when we were out walking, it was not her fault she was panicking as 4 large dogs a had all shot out of the park and surrounded her to say hello, she was spinning about on the end of the lead in a panic and I put my hand down the lead to still her and calm the situation (I knew the risk) she was just turning to snap at something in her space at a time of fear, her stopping allowed everyone to say hello quietly and more calmly and a minute or so later she was up to play with one of the smaller ones.

I think we have to accept that there is an increased risk with rescues and take precautions till we are more confident we know what may worry or over excite them.
 
Alec Swan said:
It's going to sound as if I'm flying in the face of the advice offered so far, and for the sake of it. I assure you that I'm not, BUT;

The very last thing that I would do, in your shoes, is to shut the dog away, from what he either fears, or perceives as a threat. This is only likely to make matters worse. When we have a horse which we're riding, and it appears to be fearful, then instead of reinforcing that fear, by turning away, we turn it to face the threat or fear. It's the better way if we can do that with the dog too.

All so often the dog which stands up to a visitor or a strange situation is removed from that place, and then as a logical process, it's always removed and then it becomes unmanageable. Better that the painter chap is sat at the kitchen table, with a cup of tea, the dog is left to wander about, and importantly, it's ignored. Most dogs will very quickly learn that there is no threat from the visitor, and if he shows any aggression, he should be quickly made to understand that it's not his place to react to strangers.

Just about every dog which is handed in to a rescue arrives with behavioural baggage of some sort, and generally those who are parting with the dog are rather economical with the truth. Those are simple facts, I'm afraid. I've looked but haven't seen mention of the dog's age. If he's a mature animal, then his behaviour pattern may be entrenched. If he's still young, then perhaps it can be corrected.

I'd be interested in hearing what your behaviourist has to say.

Alec.
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I completely agree. Stig didn't learn to accept visitors by being shut away from them. We just handled things and managed the situations a bit differently. He'll always have a little fear and we'll always remove him if we feel that the visitors can't be trusted to stay calm, but on the whole, people can now come in the house and he's putting toys on their laps instantly and treating them like his new best friend. All people have to do is not look him in the eye or try to stroke him straight away. 30 seconds later, he's your best friend.

I keep an eye on the visitors, not Stig. I know what he's going to do...I need to make sure I know what they are doing ;)
 
_GG_ said:
I completely agree. Stig didn't learn to accept visitors by being shut away from them. We just handled things and managed the situations a bit differently. He'll always have a little fear and we'll always remove him if we feel that the visitors can't be trusted to stay calm, but on the whole, people can now come in the house and he's putting toys on their laps instantly and treating them like his new best friend. All people have to do is not look him in the eye or try to stroke him straight away. 30 seconds later, he's your best friend.

I keep an eye on the visitors, not Stig. I know what he's going to do...I need to make sure I know what they are doing ;)
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I have this at the mo, it is so hard to stop people bending over looking in the face and putting their hand out to the cute little springer-drives me nuts-if people ignore her and let her go to them she is great but otherwise she is a creeping excuse of a dog especially with men, we took her in a restaurant sat night and everyone ignored her and she was sound asleep for 2 hrs whilst we ate-she was surrounded by men at all the neighbouring tables and it did not worry her at all.

and cooing why do people do it? and why do they think the dog looking wide eyed whilst it lays on its back immobile is cute? even the some of the vets at work coo at her and reward her when she is submissive and frozen with fear
 
he's 7 and set in his ways.

he's very in your face when he comes to the door and doesn't listen which is why I've been putting him in the living room.
obviously it hasnt helped so I'll have to manage the situation until we see the trainer next week.
 
Its not just rescue dogs that have baggage, far too many dogs out their are badly behaved and not living in a stable environment ie where they have no training or guidance.

I have a slightly different problem with my foster dog, he is terrified of some people, if he was put under pressure he could quite easily snap as he is a very fearful dog. Visitors to my home are encouraged to ignore him unless he approaches and they are also encouraged to give him a treat by just throwing it in his direction, if he feels more confident he will take it from their hands but then they just ignore him. The idea is for him to see visitors mean goodies and in the home environment he will be more confident. When the dog is pleased to have visitors I will take him up the village with a nice confident dog(Darcy) sit on the village green and watch people go by, we will then move on to people throwing him treats as they move on by.

In a situation like mine and the ops, shutting them away is meaning the problem is never addressed, Im guessing the behaviourist will suggest something along the lines Im doing but will also be interested what else they come up with.
 
blood_magik said:
he's 7 and set in his ways.

he's very in your face when he comes to the door and doesn't listen which is why I've been putting him in the living room.
obviously it hasnt helped so I'll have to manage the situation until we see the trainer next week.
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At his now established and well learned stage, you're doing the right thing. The chances of correction, except by the most experienced (no insult intended), is highly remote. Why I came away with the impression that your dog was still relatively young, and perhaps malleable, I don't know!

If you are able to live with what I would think, is an irreversible behaviour pattern, then I admire you. I wouldn't, and the dog would either go back to the rescue centre, or he'd be off to heaven, before there's an absent minded moment, and someone, a child possibly, is badly injured.

I'd still be interested to hear what the Rescue's behaviourist has to say.

Alec.
 
Every dog regardless of age needs training, this dog has to learn restraint, getting in peoples faces when they come to the door is unacceptable, you need to train a sit or down and stay. You also need your parents to implement your training as I see he goes to them as well, all this to me smacks of a dog that is unsettled, Im not criticising you OP just trying to help. Its very early days for your dog but there is no good reason why he cant learn good manners and accept simple commands.
 
It doesn't necessarily mean it is an irreversible behaviour pattern, at 4 weeks in to a new home there is still a lot of stress and all animals respond differently under stress. It depends how long he had been in rescue as well - if he hadn't heard a knocking door for a long time for example, he may just have been startled and needs time to get used to everyday things again. I know mine hadn't got a clue about the world because he had been in rescue for 18 months, so hadn't been in a car, met strange dogs, met many people, met buggies and children etc in all that time, so I had to work through all these things so he realised they were normal again.
I agree he won't improve if you shut him away, but it is good management until you know how to move forward with it, and then can train. Equally I take every opportunity I can to keep working with my boy, but if I don't trust a person to follow directions to the letter then I don't take the risk, and my boy goes away.
The DT and presumably their behaviourist hopefully know more about him than we do if he has been in rescue for any time, and will have a better idea of background and possible causes, but there are a lot of dogs who warn like this once but never go on to do anything worse because either their stress levels reduce again or they never need to because their owners step up and work with the dog to remove the need for them to react, be that through training, management or both.
 
Alec Swan said:
At his now established and well learned stage, you're doing the right thing. The chances of correction, except by the most experienced (no insult intended), is highly remote. Why I came away with the impression that your dog was still relatively young, and perhaps malleable, I don't know!

If you are able to live with what I would think, is an irreversible behaviour pattern, then I admire you. I wouldn't, and the dog would either go back to the rescue centre, or he'd be off to heaven, before there's an absent minded moment, and someone, a child possibly, is badly injured.


Alec.
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I personally, dont think the above is true. A 7 year old old is as capable of changing his reaction to a 12 month old dog.

People are way too quick, imo to write off these dogs, who, with time and correct handling can, and do, become brilliant pets.

Both of my rescue dogs have 'issues'. both with people or other animals and i have worked very hard to help them to get over, or deal with issues that they find hard to cope with.

It is still very early for this dog and as previous posters have said it does take a while to settle and there is light at the end of the tunnel with the right guidance and handling this dog will probably be absolutely fine.

Good luck OP x
 
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