Rescue horse thats a bit of a grump...

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Samantha008

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Ive had my new boy about a week now, and bless him hes been through a lot in his 8 years! He was beaten apparently by men with brooms/ brushes etc.

Hes been, considering his past, much better than i thought he would be so far. However, hes a big biter!! Its something ive not had to deal with before, and all the classical owners around me are saying just give him a crack, and with a confident horse i would agree. However, he freaks when you lift your hand up-hes already nervous around people- surely there must be another way? Maybe im just being namby pamby about it, but surely if i do hit him im just enforcing his idea of people=pain.

I dont want a horse that bites though, i know how to deal with everything else with him- and were doing pretty well so far i must say :)

Thanks for any advice
 
I might be wrong but i would be giving him a sharp slap for biting...
I reckon a horse like that will need to learn his boundries from a kind confident owner. Ideally you would both sit down at a table and discuss his issues, because he is a horse and would nt understand then he needs to be shown by consistent kindness and respect, but this doesn t include being abused by him. I hope you win through with him..because if you do it s often horses like that who turn out to be the best ones!
Im only speaking from my own experience with a monster who has turned into a lovely gentle giant!
 
I have been through this with my abused horse who was also in pain. You just need to persist and be consistent in your handling. My advice is to ignore the bad behaviour and reward the good, particularly with a horse that has been abused. My horse almost picked me up by the shoulder with his teeth when I told him off for striking out at me - so be warned - a reprimand can backfire with an abused horse.
I wouldn't be feeding him any treats by hand and in time he will learn to trust and may change. It has taken 2 years, but my horse is now lovely and sweet.
Good luck.
 
If he has been beaten up before then its understandable he's defensive. Tbh, I'd just give it time, once he is more relaxed & confident that you can be trusted, ime behaviors like that improve a lot themselves. Meantime I would just avoid anything that triggers it when possible. And with stuff that can't be avoided I wouldn't make a fuss. I would just make sure biting wasn't pleasant, rather than retaliating. Eg I find if I let one turn round to bite & it happens to connect its muzzle or chin into the point of my bony elbow, they soon learn its unpleasant, without me needing to punish them. Others use a dandy brush for the same purpose. And I'd look to see a pattern for now too. Eg if he's worse in his box, I'd handle him outside, if its when you tack up, distract with hay, & spend time doing the things that don't trigger biting, at least until he trusts you more. And just for the record, I would respond differently to one just trying its luck, but with one that's doing it through fear is very different.
 
When the ears go back and the teeth come out, would back off or would you just continue what youre doing? Ive been trying to just get on with it, but then hes getting what he wants if i back away...hmmm.

Theres a lovely boy in there. When i went to pick him up, they called his name at the gate of a 15 acre field with 30 horses in it- he walked from the other end all the way to the gate. Theres a nice horse in there just trying to get out lol!!
 
My friend at the yard has a horse that was the same, she rescued him, he'd been beaten and used to pin his ears back and bite her arms. In the end, she used to put loads of coats of - the puffa type, and go in and ignore him if he bit!! He'd bite the sleeves but soon realised that it had no effect, she didnt even flinch. Along with building his trust and showing him kindness, this soon stopped. I dont know if it was the ignoring him or the trust or both, but it worked and now he's a fab horse, but will still - and probably always, pin his ears back at men he doesnt know, but hasn't bit anyone else since.

Good luck with him xx
 
Use a sharp voice rather than your hand with this one.

What did the society you're loaning him from recommend?

Good luck.
 
I wouldn't physically back off when the ears went back, because then he'll get the impression you can be intimidated. I would just carry on with what I was doing. But, if what I was doing wasn't actually necessary then I would try to avoid doing it again till he trusted me more. And I really would look closely at the triggers. I've known two who both had painful memories about anything concerning their backs. To make life easier they'd subsequently been tied up short for most handling, which led to them being very defensive as soon as you tied them. However both were ok if you left them untied. Eg put saddle on first with horse loose in box.
 
I know I keep banging on about it - but PLEASE rule out ulcers....especially in a horse that has known high stress.

After that - spray water bottle and "Oi" may be your better approaches if needed initially.

Long term though - treating aggression with aggression may not be the best way for him. I suspect you will need specialist advice from someone trained in behaviour issues as your body language may well be key in diffusing the anxiety that is causing his aggression.
 
Do I take it reading between the lines that he's giving you warning before biting? So you are getting ears back grumpy face, and then head swing with teeth bared, and if you keep doing what you're doing, he bites?

What situations does this happen, and when does it not happen (you say he's nice natured, sounds like he has some very specific issues and a lot of goodwill). Backing off from a bite threat is not a problem at all, provided you have a strategy for improving the behaviour without triggering the warnings from him. There are plenty of ways of doing this, and safety wise that's what I'd be doing :). Trying to up the ante with a horse who's already clearly saying he's not happy with the situation, and who you know has been beaten in the past, is unnecessarily risky...

I agree with an ulcer check too. The horse has a reason for his "stay away from me" message, and it is important to rule out pain, because that means you can safely go ahead with "good things happen when I am close" training.
 
It sounds daft, but the only connection i can see is that he does it when i dont have a definitive reason for approaching him.

For instance- approach with headcoller or bridle...no grumpy face. Approach with feed...no grumpy face. Fine with rugs too.


Approach with brush, very grumpy (known to have been beaten with brooms and grooming brushes)

Go to stroke his neck- grumpy
Poo picking in the field- he wanders over to me. Comes a bit close, i go to stroke him- grumpy face. If i try to ignore him when poo picking, hes ok until i need to move him, then grumpy again.

Its almost like things that he remembers, like rugs, feed, headcollers, are ok, its new things that hes grumpy with so im hoping it will just take time. Its just knowing how to handle it at this stage to make sure we progress in the right direction. I know that he hasnt been groomed or petted for over 2 years, but he was caught and had his rugs changed.

Hmmm...
 
Leave the petting for now. For the grooming I'd find something he doesn't mind, like wiping over with a scrunched up towel, or putting something on he's happy with on his body. Anything that doesn't have bad associations. While doing so I'd try to find his itchy spot. Slowly starting with just my hand, then in time doing so with a brush, & slowly working to other areas.
So if for example he's fine with rugging, whilst doing the rug with one hand I'd try itching gently around his withers. (and if not the withers try somewhere else next time). Then, next time I rugged itch them some more, until the itching becomes enjoyable without the rug. Then itch withers with a brush. Then, gradually start moving brush away for a stroke lower down, immediately returning to the itchy spot. Over time you just increase how long you brush elsewhere for. Just make sure he's relaxed before moving on a step. With defensive horses I find the best way to get them to relax is to remove any need to be defensive. Then, once the associations are gone & they trust you, you can demand more.
 
amymay said:
Use a sharp voice rather than your hand with this one.

What did the society you're loaning him from recommend?

Good luck.
Click to expand...

+1

I'd never raise a hand to a horse nervous of it. I have one who has been set back years from an attack. Raise a hand and I'd lose her for good. You have to look at the horse individually and in your case I'd say AM's approach.

I'd very much reward the good as you may find that trust gets rid of the biting. LauraWheelers video of her boy springs straight to mind as someone whose been through it, no sure what her approach was.
 
My boy hated being groomed, so I bought one of those cactus cloth mitts which has faux sheepskin on one side and cactis cloth on the other - I still use that today on him :)
To be fair to the horse I know you just want advice for going forward, but you have only had him a week and he will certainly still be settling in and feeling unsure, so he may improve alot in a few weeks.
 
Taking on a rescue horse is a huge step and it will take many, many months of time and patience to build up the trust of this fearful horse.

You can be firm without shouting, a firm no is as good as a shout but does not startle or frighten. You do not get something for nothing most times and usually with rescues comes baggage. Rescues are not a cheap option, often you pay the price in non-monetary terms.

Reward good behaviour.

You cannot pussy foot around, you need to be the authority otherwise he will never change. You are his teacher, his safety blanket. He needs guidance without being frightened into aggressive behaviour.

You cannot have bonded already, sit with him, speak to him, run your hands over him. I am sure with time you will make huge improvements but these things take time, no rushing.
 
My approach with a horse that had learned to bite partly as a fear response to aggression, partly as a response to a previously too tight bridle has been to apparently ignore the behaviour. If she moved towards me with her mouth she met a rather sharp elbow, if she actually connected with her teeth I felt justified in giving her a sharp slap on the shoulder. As she was most fearful when being tacked up I gave her a treat for each piece of tack successfully put on without aggression. I also made sure that I had stripped the tack down to single pieces and put each one on very carefully and gently.
She is now much happier and far less likely to even threaten to bite.
 
Bump on the nose him with your elbow, knee, head, hip or shoulder ie the bit closest to where he is aiming for. He won't connect that with you he will connect it with him biting and it being less pleasant than it used to be. Do not slap or hit him or say anything. It is the best way to stop them without making them head shy and the timing of it means it stops them very quickly.
 
Also I'd completely forget about what may or may not have happened to him. He is safe now and it's not going to happen again so move on from that and expect him to behave like a normal horse and he will. Good luck.
 
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