Restrict grazing too much?

JackDaniels1

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What do you do with an overweight cob who is on restricted grazing - do you still feed hay? No grass left in small paddock.
 

shelly19

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I'm having the same problem at the moment, have a cob x that seems to live on fresh air. Yard owner say's I should give him nothing even though he's only in about 3 hours a day and everything else is losing weight as no grass :(
 

cptrayes

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Don't forget that the grass is growing and he is eating whatever would have shown as growth. He isn't getting nothing unless he is standing there without nibbling. If he isn't losing weight he's getting food from somewhere. I would stop feeding him in the stable and see if he loses weight then, and then you know you need to feed hay in the paddock regularly to keep his gut moving.
 

amandap

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Don't forget that the grass is growing and he is eating whatever would have shown as growth. He isn't getting nothing unless he is standing there without nibbling. If he isn't losing weight he's getting food from somewhere. I would stop feeding him in the stable and see if he loses weight then, and then you know you need to feed hay in the paddock regularly to keep his gut moving.
Ditto. Take him off for a couple of days and you'll soon see what he is eating. :D

I feed soaked hay and increase exercize for weight loss. I'm lucky enough to have a huge varied yard with no grass.
 

Goldenstar

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When I have mine in paddocks with turely no grass I throw hi hi lite molasses free on the ground ( obviously only when the ground is dry) and let them forage for it.
 

Peachescream

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Vet told me that its no use soaking hay for 1 hour it needs to be soaked for a minimum of 12 hours to take everything out of it and then they can munch away maintaining a healthy gut without worrying about sugar( i have a cushings mare). Starving the horse can cause ulcers from all the excess acids in the stomach which have no food to digest. If the horse is nibbling at the grass then he is still getting enough, as at this time of year the grass is growing all the time. Good luck with your horsey :).
 

guido16

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Restricted grazing is fine but the only way to really get the weight off is constant exercise working in conjunction with the restricted grazing.

Good luck.
 

Goldenstar

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Restricted grazing is fine but the only way to really get the weight off is constant exercise working in conjunction with the restricted grazing.

Good luck.

This is my experiance too you need to work them to get a fatty down I wieght .
 

Fellewell

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Horses and ponies are trickle feeders. It's a good idea to keep an eye on what's coming out if you can't see what's going in;)
 

xxMozlarxx

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Horses and ponies are trickle feeders. It's a good idea to keep an eye on what's coming out if you can't see what's going in;)

Very true, my horses field looks very sparse currently however they are not losing weight and their poo is very green so they are definitely getting plenty of grass.
 

BentleyBelly

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The girl who shares my yard thinks I'm nuts but I count the poos. It looks like there is no grass but if he is getting enough to eat to still do about 8 poos in 24hrs then my fatty doesn't get hay!
 

JFTDWS

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Agree with previous posts regarding grass coming through and exercise, but as an aside, if I were to need to feed forage I would feed straw rather than hay to provide forage with fewer kcals.
 

Goldenstar

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Agree with previous posts regarding grass coming through and exercise, but as an aside, if I were to need to feed forage I would feed straw rather than hay to provide forage with fewer kcals.

Feeding straw is a excellent way to approach fatties feeding much better than soaked hay I just can't seem to find a suitable supply now so I use the HiFI molasses free.
 

barehoofhannah

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Just spent ages writing a reply and lost it! So here’s my quick version.
Exercise and movement crucial for losing weight, so hand walking, riding, or consider setting up a track around the outside of the field or something so they have to do laps to get to water, move to hay.
Horses need free access to forage, if they know it’s going to run out they are more likely to waff it down quicker. If it was mine, I’d get the hay tested, forage plus in the UK or equi analytical in the USA come to my mind. I’d also soak hay for an hour, an hour in normal temp is enough to dissolve sugars, any longer and you are looking at dissolving any nutrients etc.. can be done in less time with hot water.
If you’ve soaked it for an hour you could be looking at the sugar content dropping at least/around 10%. If you’ve got the hay low enough you can find free access have as much as you want forage.
Katy Watts – (plant scientist) has some fab some on her website: www.safergrass.org http://www.safergrass.org/pdf/SoakReport2.pdf is on soaking hay, and I think she is looking at even higher levels of hay reduction av 30% with an hour of soaking.
Also if there is very little short grass, this is likely to be stressed (and therefore have higher sugar content) and also as it's so short to the main sugary bit of the plant have more sugar in it.
If he is just having hay, the analysis could show if its short of any key nutrients, that you’d need to supplement.
Also if a horse think it’s got nothing to eat, this creates frustration and stress, which releases the stress hormone cortisol, when cortisol rises insulin rises, when insulin rises the body will not burn fat, when insulin rises the horse perceives it’s in starvation mode and it thinks it needs to hold onto fat, it’s not going to be losing weight with this going on. This is also going to have an impact on hooves, but can’t for the life of me work out why cortisol, inflames the laminae…
Just back to the exercise, in my notes I’ve got… (Although I don’t really understand what I’ve written, so will go back through bits to try to understand!); when exercise is occurring, tissues move. Insulin is sensitive, which means the insulin levels in the blood come down as cells develop more insulin receptors due to exercise. There for exercise is a key piece in the puzzle.
I’m also enjoying listening to Juliet Gettys mp3s whilst doing chores, and her ‘Feed Your Horse Like a Horse’ book http://gettyequinenutrition.com/
Joe Camp (the guy that did the Benji movies?) is newish into horsemanship and is very keen on showing/promoting what he’s learning, so there are lots of bits on his site. Although he clearly isn’t a vet/nutritionist etc, but he’s picking up bits and getting them out there as he is so impressed with what he is coming across on this new journey. http://www.soulofahorse.com/
I’m clearly not a plant scientist/nutritionist etc!! I’m just training to be a barefoot trimmer, so these are just some bits I’ve seen on my studies with the Equine Sciences Academy.
Best wishes, and I hope it sorts. I’ve got a chunky cob youngster, and my USA fellow students don’t understand when I say that most yards don’t have a dry lot or anywhere you can take away grass and just feed hay.
Hannah
 

amandap

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Straw can be high in sugars and doesn't provide much in the way of nutrition. It can be a great way to add bulk but it might still be adding calories as well...
 

amandap

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Also if a horse think it’s got nothing to eat, this creates frustration and stress, which releases the stress hormone cortisol, when cortisol rises insulin rises, when insulin rises the body will not burn fat, when insulin rises the horse perceives it’s in starvation mode and it thinks it needs to hold onto fat, it’s not going to be losing weight with this going on. This is also going to have an impact on hooves, but can’t for the life of me work out why cortisol, inflames the laminae…
I think it might be the raised insulin that inflames the lamina. I read part of a study recently with that probable conclusion but can't find it atm. I've put out an sos and will post the link when I get it. :)
 

MagicMelon

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Yes, I'd give hay. I restrict grazing for 2 of my ponies. For a few months, my shetland is taken off the grass completely and lives in our hardcored yard with permanent access to hay. Not to lose weight as I always keep them trim but because she's very sensitive to laminitis. Definately not good for them to be starved. Give hay and increase exercise.
 

Fransurrey

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"but can’t for the life of me work out why cortisol, inflames the laminae…"
Cortisol causes vasoconstriction. So, it's not inflammation, but the restriction of blood flow. I think...off to check my physiology books! Back in a tick... :D


...ok was norty and googled it, but yes, it's vasoconstriction!

OP, in the summer I feed a little hay to supplement by ponies formerly known as fatties. Never counted the poos, but go off body condition and poo colour.
 
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lachlanandmarcus

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Straw can be high in sugars and doesn't provide much in the way of nutrition. It can be a great way to add bulk but it might still be adding calories as well...

Straw (5.8-6.2 Mj/kg) is normally lower energy and less sugary than unsoaked hay (8-8.5Mj/kg)and hay soaked for a short period. Hay soaked for 12 hours (5Mj/kg)would be better than straw provided you can find a way of slowing the ponys speed of eating it: one of straws big advantages is that its bulk can help slow down the speed of eating, so it is good for overnight munching.

Straw is low in protein and some minerals tho, so if feeding it, always feed a vit/min supp too and dont just feed straw, feed a mix of soaked hay plus the straw over a 24 hour period or something with alfalfa in it provided you are happy to feed alfalfa, some lami owners aren't keen on it but it does balance up the protein of the straw (one of the reasons many chaffs are chopped straw+alfalfa).

I use oat straw quite a bit with my Haflinger.
 

amandap

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I think it might be the raised insulin that inflames the lamina. I read part of a study recently with that probable conclusion but can't find it atm. I've put out an sos and will post the link when I get it. :)
It's called a project not study. There's a pdf to download which I haven't read fully so not sure how scientific it is but thought it was a interesting. https://rirdc.infoservices.com.au/items/11-116
 

OWLIE185

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Soaking hay for 24 hours will reduce the sugars far more but in warm weather there is a danger of fermentation so please take this in to account.
 

amandap

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Straw (5.8-6.2 Mj/kg) is normally lower energy and less sugary than unsoaked hay (8-8.5Mj/kg)and hay soaked for a short period.
I wasn't aware that straw had a consistent calorific value. It is contraindicated for bedding horses in acute laminitis on because of the risk of them eating it.
Hay doesn't have a standard calorie/sugar/starch value so I would be surprized if straw did. I am open to being proved wrong though. :)

I believe oat straw is the best of the straws to feed.

This USA analysis shows straw averages of 5.2 - 18.2 Non structural carbohydrate content. http://www.safergrass.org/pdf/JEVS8-05.pdf
 
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