Restricted Diet - Laminitic

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TooManyCobs

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Hi. I have an 8yo, 14.3hh mw cob gelding. He’s become very overweight since I moved him to farm pasture and recently developed first signs of laminitis, confirmed by vet.

I need to get his weight down as quickly as is safe so he is to spend a week on box rest – then I plan to turn him out onto a field already grazed down by others.

Whilst he’s in I am trying to measure rations. I know a horse at rest hay ration is 1-1.5% of bodyweight in hay. For him that is 5.3 – 8.0kg of hay. Two questions about ration size.

1) Should I reduce this further as he is a remarkable good doer and he needs to be on a diet?
2) The vet told me to soak the hay to remove sugars – on that basis should I increase the ration?

Then two questions about hay soaking:
1) Vet told me to soak for minimum 3 hours to remove the sugars – will it do any harm to leave soaking overnight?
2) We are on metered water – can I re-use the same water to soak hay for a few days? Will that still have the desired effect?

:confused::confused:Thanks – all my horses have never had an illness between them so not so good at this bit!
 
Here is a huge amount of useful information for laminitics

http://www.laminitisclinic.org/

They advise minimum of THIRTY days box rest once the horse is found to be sound again. So if it takes two weeks to get your horse sound, that means an additional thirty days on top of that, so six weeks in total. That also means the horse should not be moved from stable at all in that period - and they also advise a deep litter bed of about 18inches deep!

As for weight reduction, soak your hay minimum 12 hours, and preferably 24. Weight the amount by body weight as you've figured out, and then soak it. For weight loss, you should not increase the dry weight. To make the munching last longer, suggest you use small holed haylege nets doubled up to make the holes even smaller.

I had re-used the water in my barrel, but then had to hose the nets down to further remove the sugars and also remove the effluent.

Looking after a lami is time consuming, hard work and expensive! Best of luck
 
Thank you. I'm prepared for the hard work involved in getting him (and keeping him) well. It's just the details of how to go about it that i'm at a loss with. Feeding is a topic on which there are just so many options and opinions!! I have considered getting a nutritionist in - is this a step too far?
 
I would ring and ask your vet if you are not sure. You will get lots of advice here but you may end up blinding yourself with science. You paid the vet good money to help your horse get better - so you are entitled to a clear explanation of what you need to do to do this!

General advice for feeding laminitics is to soak hay overnight. One normal haynet will do for daytime and another for evening. The idea is to soak the sugars out of the hay but still get fibre into your horse which he needs for gut function. Small holed haynets will propng eating time.

You also need to put down a DEEP shavings bed to cushion the poorly feet. If your vet didn;t prescribe bute am I right in thinking it's very low-grade lami??

When your horse is better, in future, why not try a grazing muzzle? My fatty has one and it is brill, it means he can be with his friends but not gorge himself all day. It is a Greenguard, expensive but worth every penny.
 
You wouldnt need to increase the rations to make up for soaking it.....the reason horses are meant to eat a percentage of their body weight is for the fibre.....you would be soaking it to get rid of the sugars....the fibre will still be there in the same quantity....
 
TooManyCobs said:
Thank you. I'm prepared for the hard work involved in getting him (and keeping him) well. It's just the details of how to go about it that i'm at a loss with. Feeding is a topic on which there are just so many options and opinions!! I have considered getting a nutritionist in - is this a step too far?
Click to expand...

You're right, there are so many options and it can be really frustrating when you just want to do the "right" thing.

My own vet had advised me that a week or two of box rest would be sufficient. However, I went with Laminitis Trusts advice of thirty days because I wanted to be sure of the best possible occurence of a good recover, minimise the risk of damage to the feet. The way I see it, the Laminitis Trust have nothing to gain by suggesting longer box rest, and I had nothing to lose by NOT doing it (other than more time off work which meant more time not riding/competing etc for that time...but hopefully kept the mare sound longer over her lifetime).

A nutritionist from a feed company will probably be helpful, but keep in mind their job also is to sell feed. Give the Lami Trust folk a ring (though keep in mind, they also sell Formula 4 Feet...)
 
Hi

I second the above post by noblesteed....my horse has had lami in the past and I had to have a deep bed of shavings covering the entire stable, he had restricted hay (amount based on his weight) which was soaked overnight (my vet also suggested putting him on a multi vitamin supplement as he was not getting grass so ensuring he still gets all the right vitamins etc - but I would speak to your vet about this as what was right for me may not be right for yours).

I also reused my water for 2 days at most and def try double netting your nets to help slow them down...

Also I second the muzzle for when yours can go back out - I didnt manage to get the greenguard to work for mine so I use a westgate comfort muzzle - it means he can now go out all day and doesnt stuff himself silly.....otherwise he would have to be stable bound for half of the days in summer which would be very harsh....

Good luck with it all and I hope your horse gets better soon!
 
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Tbh I wouldn't reuse the soaking water as once it's 'full' of sugars no more will leach out of the hay so soaking will beome a waste of time. It may be ok if your hay is low in sugars anyway but imho it's not worth the risk. I second deep shavings over the whole floor too.
From what I've learned I'd keep the diet simple and possibly add magnesium and salt. I wouldn't restrict hay myself just use nets and other ways of slowing intake down. Horses are designed to eat small amounts most of the time and imo periods without hay causes more stress on an already stressed body. If a net gets him through the night then fine of course.
This is not what the laminitis clinic advise and I'm not a vet or specialist in any way just an owner with a pony who is very prone to laminitis.
I hope he improves quickly. May I just add a warning about turning him out again at this time of year with Autumn almost here the grass will be in a high risk state for laminitis prone horses so proceed with care and watch him like a hawk when the time comes for him to have turnout.
Mta... if possible it may be worth turning out initially in a grass free area with soaked hay before restarting grass turnout. Just thinking small steps here so you can see how each change affects him.
 
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When Lily was on box rest for laminitis she got soaked hay in small holed haynets one inside the other to make it last, I soaked it over night. She would get two sections in the morning and two at night, sometimes the morning ones were spread out over the day if I or a friend was at the yard.

She also got a feed of http://www.thepurefeedcompany.com/pure_easy.html with her supplements in of magnesium, rosehip, and bute milk thistle

Lily was very fat and lost a huge amount of weight (so much so we won the Fat Horse Slim competition) she is very well now and ridden and recovered.

I did a blog of her management etc and this link is more info on how I shed the pounds http://lilylaminitis.blogspot.com/2009/04/managing-overweight-horse-and-losing.html
 
Hi, to make your soaked hay last longer and to bulk up rather than over feed, add some nice good quality barley straw. It is best to use last years hay soaked 12hrs so overnight for the day haynet and all day for the night haynet. Use fresh water each time as the water is pretty rank after soaking each haynet. You don't saok the straw but mix it in with the soaked hay. Give a token feed with alfi hi lite add to that a multi vitamin and mineral supplement and some pro/pre biotic ( I use feedmark for all) I add hedgerow herbs and a little garlic, add a little water and that is all the nutrition required and it is a nice tasty little mix. When able to turn out is it pos to elec fence a small area that has been grazed already, that way the horse will have to work to get a little grass and will keep it from being bored. I put some soaked hay on the ground 1/2 haynet if out all day. Hope this helps it isn't expensive or that time consuming once you get organized.
 
Oat straw is good to if u can get hold of it I used that to bulk lilys out once she was recovered. Ensure u introduce it gradually to minimise chances of comic
 
Thanks all for so much advice! Lots of helpful tips and info. Fingers crossed with the right management from me going fowards he'll be fine in no time. He looks almost sound already this evening (although he's staying in for much longer!) so i feel hopeful that laminitis might not mean the end of the road. You've all been so positive - thank you!
 
Hi, with regards to restricted grazing you could try doing a track system. I have my mares on one, one is laminitic and the other has EMS. its done wonders. rather than strip grazing or using muzzles I have set up a narrow track around the outside of the field with hay (soaked) points. this means that they move around tp graze on the track which has verry little grass and exercise themselves which is great at keeping the weight off compared to putting them in a stable for long perions of time or a very small grazing area. If you are interested PM me or check out Jamie Jackson's Paddock Paradise. He intvented this idea... very interesting reading about all aspects of Lami management too. he has a book or Google it.
good luck!
 
I struggled with a lamanitic pony for years. Try ringing a feed company such as baileys as they are really helpful and can advise on weight of hay to be fed and what you can feed your pony. I used Lo-cal balancer which helps to make sure they still get all the vits and minerals they need on a very restricted diet.
HiFi lite can be used as a replacement for hay and means you can keep them occupied when they are on box rest with little feeds. If you wet it it can take them alot longer to chew. Also you can feed speedi beet which is a real treat and is approved by the laminitis trust.
Invest in a weight tape and keep tabs on the weight so that you know the diet is working.
The laminitis trust are very helpful too.
Hope this helps x
 
Hi - bit of an update now a month has gone by - and a couple more questions!

I stabled him for 2 weeks 24/7. he noticeably lost weight during that period. I have since turned him out for about 6 hrs a day, on 20x40m patch of grazed low pasture.

He gets about 4kg of soaked hay per day, and is gaining weight again! There is really nothing worth eating in his paddock, he just seems to get fat from looking at the pasture next door. i have been trying to excersize him, but on this diet he has no energy (normally very, very spritely, now resembles glazed over riding school plod).

how do i get his calorie intake low enough for him to lose weight and give him enough energy to canter up a field without collapsing in an exhausted heap half way through.

help!
 
Aaah, the joys of good doers eh?

As to your dilemma, any food you give to top up energy = calories, what I tend to find is that if they are overweight and unfit then they are sluggish; once you get the weight off they start to liven up a bit and also any insulin resisitance is lessened.

If cantering is too much like hard work then stick to plenty of active walking and trotting (they actually burn up more calories walking actively) and I'm sure you'll find that things will improve.

Adding a good vit/min supplement might be worth a try, just in case he is lacking anything with a restricted diet.

There is a good article about how someone managed to get weight off an obese Icelandic pony - it gives all of us with fatties hope and proof that it can be done! Along with some useful tips:- http://www.icelandichorses.co.uk/Dieting an obese horse.htm
 
Don't reuse the water, its full of sugar, 1 hour soaking reduces the soluble sugars by 60%.

Small hay net is a good idea.

It should always have hay available as restricting fiber can cause digestive problems such as ulsers, colic, twisted gut, etc.

Don't give bute, it represses the regeneration of the lamina, if his feet hurt he will lie down.

If you can give him somewhere to walk about so much the better. Box rest really is detrimental.

Look at a good balancer, but don't feed any hard food, he doesn't need it.
 
Thanks all. Will try the multivitamin - actually managed a gallop today (one of his favourite things!). Maybe the long term not so bleak. thanks for so much support!
 
I think the thing you need to remember about these horses is that it is about what you do every single day - just thinking they are "OK" and can be turned back out on to stressed grass is the way to get an attack.

You do need to be vigilant.

You also need to get the minerals, overall feeding and the level of exercise just right.

I have two cobs with the danger signs - they are off the grass 12 hours each, and my laminitic is off grass 24x7

The grass they do get is the long foggage. Anything shorter is stressed and affects them
 
brucea said:
The grass they do get is the long foggage. Anything shorter is stressed and affects them
Click to expand...

Could you elaborate on this? What qualifies as long and what as stressed?

I'm currently wondering (on behalf of friends reluctant to restrict their horses' grazing) exactly how dangerous very well-managed, lush, rich grass around 3-5 inches long would be for horses which are overweight but not (apparently) laminitic, compared to a restricted area of shorter stuff (eg 1 inch, not grazed to the roots)? Plainly the latter would be preferable for *weight loss*, which is obviously important in terms of staving lami off, but possibly not in terms of sugars. And would you turn a laminitic out on this in preference to short grass? Or by long do you mean rank stuff, even gone to seed?
 
Sorry, haven't read all the replies, so please forgive me if I repeat others.

Little Lad (Welsh cross) was on three months box rest for laminitis. He had ad lib hay that was soaked for a minimum of twelve hours. He lost a considerable amount of weight, going from an xxx-wide to a medium/wide saddle fitting. He wasn't stressed in the stable, being at the heart of the yard he had company and could watch everyone coming and going.
 
The question of grass is a problem for most horse people especially those on livery.

Most agricultural grassland in the UK is 'improved' grassland which over the years has been resown with various varieties of ryegrass. From an agricultural point of view this is excellent grass as it grows for an extended period throughout the year, is very rich in sugars etc which promote high milk yields and growth in animals being fattened.

These grasses grow so well throughout the year that 2 or three cuts can be made for hay or more likely haylage which are also very high in sugars and starches originally grown for over wintering cattle.

The highest concentration of sugars etc in grass is in the tip, ie. the top 2 or 3 mm of growth, which in the growing season can be one days growth.

Having a horse or pony on a starvation paddock can look like there is nothing there, but the horse will be constantly grazing on the new growth which is the richest grass in the field.

Foggage is a field of grass left for hay but not cut. The grass seeds and then the seed stalk and primary leaf die back, and through rain and general decomposition the feed value of the foggage drops and can be safely grazed. However if the soil temprature remains high in mild winters regrowth will occur underneath the foggage and this is quickly sought out by the horse.

For people on livery, where a farmer has diversified into horse keeping from more traditional livestock husbandry, they often find it difficult to appreciate that horses are totally different in the grazing they requireto be safe. Everyone will be aware of the lengths some livery yard owners go to to protect and maintain thier fields, which of course is detrimental to the horse.

Where horses are kept on unimproved land, moorland for example, they may safely graze 24/7 and laminitis is unknown. Unfortuanatley finding areas of grassland which has not been contaminated with improved varieties of grasses is almost impossible.
 
Murf15 said:
Could you elaborate on this? What qualifies as long and what as stressed?

I'm currently wondering (on behalf of friends reluctant to restrict their horses' grazing) exactly how dangerous very well-managed, lush, rich grass around 3-5 inches long would be for horses which are overweight but not (apparently) laminitic, compared to a restricted area of shorter stuff (eg 1 inch, not grazed to the roots)? Plainly the latter would be preferable for *weight loss*, which is obviously important in terms of staving lami off, but possibly not in terms of sugars. And would you turn a laminitic out on this in preference to short grass? Or by long do you mean rank stuff, even gone to seed?
Click to expand...
This might be of some help. http://www.safergrass.org/index.html
Takes some wading through I'm afraid and gets pretty technical when it comes to minerals.
 
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