Richard Maxwell... thoughts

[CBFan]

I was at YHL yesterday and as a believer in natural horsemanship methods I was intreagued as to what he had to say so I sat in on his demo... I have to say I came away questioning quite a lot of what he said / did. Did anyone else see it?

I showing how he uses a scooling whip in ground work to move the horse around laterally... fair enough I thought... BUT... here's the bit I question... he uses it as an 'irritation' by tapping the horses quarters with it (fair enough) but the response he's looking for is for the horse to move TOWARDS it.... hmmmmmm... I don't really fancyu having my half a tonne lump of a horse jumping towards me every time I wave a stick at his quarters!! kinda goes against the grain for me... whats so wrong with getting the horse to move AWAY from pressure all of a sudden?

Anywy he then goes on to demonstrate that he's spookbusted his sons ponies by chicking a tarp over them (well done!!) ... says it took a number of weeks to get to this stage but doesn't explain how he achieved it... left just a little bit sceptical... thoughts?

 

[jumbyjack]

I do prefer his methods to some I could name but I think you have to pick and choose what is acceptable to you. If I had done some of the stick waving/prodding etc with my old cob I would have very quickly been flat enough to be posted!

 

[Mickeymoo]

I can't comment about YHL as I haven't been - not really my scene.

I personally swear by the man, I can't recommend him enough. We had him out to load Mick as it was an almost impossible task. We had worn out all the tempting with feed and lunge line theories. We had to do a lot of work but now Mick loads and travels perfectly.

Mick was starting to get silly. I had bought him from a family that had bought a horse they couldn't handle, so he had learnt a lot of tricks - hence his show name - The Trickster. RM showed me a few techniques and theorys that worked for my horse.

I can now go anywhere, even compete on my own and people complement me on how well behaved Mick is.

I also do a bit of parelli when needed. There is another post on here regarding another horseman. I don't think there is any right or wrong. I took out what I needed from RM and Parelli at the time to address a big problem, help keep me safe and help my horse to find some self respect.

 

[Thistle]

Max has a very wide, varied background, ex army (Household cavalry?) worked with Monty Roberts etc.

He is a true horseman and pulls together stuff from various 'methods' to find the way forward.

 

[SVMel]

I also do a bit of parelli when needed. There is another post on here regarding another horseman. I don't think there is any right or wrong. I took out what I needed from RM and Parelli at the time to address a big problem, help keep me safe and help my horse to find some self respect.

How sensible

 

[Dolcé]

He was the first trainer I ever saw in action, years ago when he was just starting out on his own. I genuinely don't think the others have ever left such an impression, at the time I was 'out' of horses whilst the girls were little but I loved the way he was with the horse, it was the first time I had seen 'join up' although I don't think he uses that any more. I have a lot of respect for him, his books are practical and easy to follow and not all me,me,me as are some, his methods are the most versatile out there because he changes to what is most suitable for the horse and it's problem.

 

[blitznbobs]

All I know is that when our mare wouldn't load (and I mean wouldn't load) and we'd had everyone in the world trying to load her tried the feeding her in the box etc nothing worked we (in desperation) had him come to our yard.

He had the mare loading within 1/2 an hour and I never had a problem with her again... He didn't hit her once, he did pinch her shoulder a couple of times to get her to move away from him but that's as aggressive as he got.

I was truly in awe.

Bx

 

[RolyPolyPony]

Since getting my boy on loan, I've become a massive day of natural horsemanship. I've also done some parelli groundwork with him. When he arrived i had a horse who point blank refused to go into his stable (despite have been stabled all winter last year and various other winters) after a 30min groundwork session i had him walking into his stable calmly. I am also able to get him to move his body around with absolutely no contact with him at all. Horsemanship has helped me when he has been extremely difficult to catch. I spent hour and half trying to catch him, another livery is into very into parelli and had me catching him in around 10mins.

 

[winterwood]

I was at YHL yesterday and as a believer in natural horsemanship methods I was intreagued as to what he had to say so I sat in on his demo... I have to say I came away questioning quite a lot of what he said / did. Did anyone else see it?

I showing how he uses a scooling whip in ground work to move the horse around laterally... fair enough I thought... BUT... here's the bit I question... he uses it as an 'irritation' by tapping the horses quarters with it (fair enough) but the response he's looking for is for the horse to move TOWARDS it.... hmmmmmm... I don't really fancyu having my half a tonne lump of a horse jumping towards me every time I wave a stick at his quarters!! kinda goes against the grain for me... whats so wrong with getting the horse to move AWAY from pressure all of a sudden?

Anywy he then goes on to demonstrate that he's spookbusted his sons ponies by chicking a tarp over them (well done!!) ... says it took a number of weeks to get to this stage but doesn't explain how he achieved it... left just a little bit sceptical... thoughts?

I've seen Max in a demo before getting the horse to move towards the stick and I thought at the time that it is exactly the opposite of what is usually required. Generally speaking we are wanting the horse to move away from or yield to pressure, not move into it.
Doesn't mean what Max is showing is wrong I guess, just different!! But may lead to a confused horse if not done carefully

 

[BeckyBoodle]

I have had Richard Maxwell out a couple of times to help me back my mare as we are reasonably local to him. The 'getting the horse to move towards pressure thing' did seem to contradict what I would normally ask, but actually she seems to recognise the different situations she is in when I ask and respond accordingly. It proved invaluable when I needed to get her back on the box after quite a challenging journey.

I also thing he is great at knowing when to work with the horse and give them the benefit of the doubt, and when to push a point and say 'no we are doing this etc'.

I hope to get him out again to do puddles.

I also think it is great to mix and match approaches depending on what works for you and your horse. I include a bit of Parelli, a bit of Monty/Kelly Marks, a bit of Mark Rashid, some Klaus Hempfling (sp?) and whatever else seems to work. For riding I like Ride With Your Mind/Alexander Technique alongside classical.

B

 

[maggiesmum]

I've used max too, I used to own a professional rearer now I have a sweet little TB and I owe him a lot for that, i'd exhausted pretty much all avenues and I wouldn't hesitate to use him again, BUT I'm not convinced with the tapping thing either, he showed it to me with my horse and I understood how it worked, they don't jump at you its about asking them to bring the hind leg towards you which I would imagine could be very helpful if you have a horse that swings his quarters away at the mounting block - little tap with the stick and over he comes, but I too wondered if we'd just confuse them by asking them to move into it?

 

[soulfull]

I took a Sec D to him once that would only let me mount. After about an hour and 20 mins he finally managed to get on. He was good in that when one thing didn't work he had several things up his sleeve HOWEVER none of them ever worked on him again. In the end it just took time and lots of it

 

[miss_molly]

I was at the demo, the moving the horse towards you was a follow on from a previous YH article he had done about mounting, he did say it at beginning but would have made more sense for him to get on mounting block and move horse towards him to stand at block.

He said had not done demos for ages and I think that kind of showed. I would of like more info on how he had got horses to those stages not just it took 3 weeks. I liked the double lungeing but again would of liked hints on how to start etc.

I was disappointed to see sons pony bitted up so much, as Max is often riding bridleless in his photos, books etc.

I think demo needed a bit more thought before hand and not just for him to turn uo and say this is finished product.

 

[Happyhuntress]

Was very impressed by a video he did on loading, on the Horsehero website. I took a few ideas from it and it has definitely helped me with my horse

 

[ISHmad]

Didn't get to see the Demo yesterday but I do quite like Richard Maxwell. Common sense, straight talking and not egotistical like so many trainers. However the tapping thing confuses me too as we spend all our time teaching our horses to move away from pressure so I'm not sure how getting them to then move into pressure like that works? Other than that I'm someone who as a rule likes his way of working.

 

[Alibear]

Another fan, yes hips in is great for mounting from a block, tree fence etc! You know how they line up but swing their quarters away, well with that you can get them to bring them back near again.
It does seem kind of opposite to normal but there again you're tapping to say move this leg , you're just asking them to move it towards you not away. But then a tap when ridden is usually asking to step under more , not away from you.

Anyway what I like most is he doesn't have 1 answer for all horses he has many and different solutions for different horses. Nothing rigid and he adapts to suit the horse. Also he's still learning and open to new ideas, apparently he demoed a new to him technique at YHL, but I didn't get to see him so I don't know what it was. Darn it!

 

[JCWHITE]

I saw part of Saturdays demo with a young iron grey pony.
I would say he takes a common sense approach, and would prefer his reasoning to some of the other peoples.
JC

 

[TicTac]

I really rate Richard Maxwell. He is a talented all round horseman who doesn't suffer fools gladly ( human that is lol) I had a horse at his yard in Essex many years ago for starting which he did a good job on and I always enjoy his lecture/demos. He is a man who admits to his mistakes and is also open to new idea's/training methods.

I would rather have him train a horse of mine than some american cowboy!

 

[bedbug]

RM did 2 demos on Saturday. In the first one he showed the getting a horse to move a way from you, teaching about your personal space etc and it was great to watch. One of the questions at the end of the first session was about how to deal with a horse that moves away from you when mounting and he said he would show how to get a horse to move to you to help with that. Unfortunately I couldn't get in to see the afternoon demo as I would have loved to see how it is done so much easier to actually watch than try to folow pictures in a magaizine but perhaps this might help to answer the OP question.

so could someone tell me who watched the afternoon demo how do you get a horse to come to you rather than move away?????

 

[BeckyBoodle]

I wasn't at YHL, but have had Max out to help me back my 4 year old.

We did an exercise to get her started into lateral movements, where you had her in the corner but parallel to the short side of the school and then tapped her quarters until she responded. The response he was looking for was to bring her bottom out into the middle of the school, while slightly turning her head towards the wall and then walk her down the short side with her quarters in. If her quarters started to fall back towards the wall, you would tap to bring them back. I ended up being able to do it by just waving towards her quarters. At the start because of her starting position she couldn't move her quarters away, only in. Obviously the moment she responded by moving in you stopped the tapping and rewarded.

After that and from the same position, we put a mounting block at her head and then tapped her quarters around until she lined up with the mounting block. Then once that was being done correctly, we moved the mounting block to the centre of the school.

She seemed to get quite quickly that in some circumstances she moves her quarters in, and then some times I will ask her to move over, and doesn't seem to get confused. I guess there are other cues with it, eg mounting block versus word over and rein pressure.

Does that help explain?
B

 

[Thistle]

I use a tap for a horse to move towards, or give me a foot etc and a push or prod for them to move away.

Horses are VERY sensitive to subtle body language. They certainly know the difference.

After all if a horse is trailing a hind leg when ridden you use a tap/stroke withe a long whip to get it to bring that leg under towards you.

Even as humans. if someone taps you on the shoulder you would look toward them, if they pushed you would move away.

Makes sense to me!

 

[Alec Swan]

We had a big and well grown colt foal, now gelded, who was approaching being dangerous, to the extent that entry into his box was impossible. I don't know who was the more frightened of who, and it was getting beyond a joke!

In desperation, I called Max and he agreed to come out. He explained that it might not be too pretty, and I assured him that we didn't do pretty. It was amazing, and I'd have paid his fee, simply to watch with someone else's horse.

He gently lassoed the youngster, who understandably, rather "went into one"! The point was that everything which happened to the foal, was self inflicted. There was minimal contact on the rope, and it was used to keep the two of them facing each other. After perhaps two or three minutes, of the foal's brain in overdrive, he leant against a wall, and feinted!!

We all stood quietly and watched. When the foal came round, and regained his composure, he walked up to Max, and planted his nose firmly against Max's chest. Max explained that the foal was checking his heart rate. Max then gently scratched is poll, which the foal welcomed, and fitted him with a rope halter. After five minutes of leading him around his box, with constant changes of direction, and with no contact, he suggested that he take the foal for a walk in the paddock! For a half hour, the foal was led about, still with no contact, in his box, back out again, round the paddock and back into his box again.

We went and had lunch, and went back out and repeated the leading process. To this day, the foal has never been a minutes trouble, and seems to be as fond of me, as I am of him.

What surprised me, was that at no time did Max talk to the foal. Generally we make soothing sounds to a frightened youngster, don't we? We talk to them, in an attempt to calm them. There was no fight, that I could see, in-fact no exertion on the part of Max, at all.

Following on from his visit, everything seems to have fallen into place. Within three days, I picked up all four feet, with only a shift in balance from the foal. The transformation, without any physical force being used, was remarkable.

Richard Maxwell is a highly skilled man, and the bonus was, that we liked him too. If your at your wit's end, then he's your man!

Alec.

 

[Hippona]

Never seen him, so can't comment on that.

What I will say is....his methods work for me and various 'sharp' horses I have had, particularly my present one.

Interestingly, I read his book after doing some of my own 'common sense horsemanship' on my horse and to be right- a lot of it is common-horse sense and I had been doing similar stuff anyway, but he explains why things work and what he;s trying to acheive in his books.

I really rate the guy.

 

[Seahorse]

We had a big and well grown colt foal, now gelded, who was approaching being dangerous, to the extent that entry into his box was impossible. I don't know who was the more frightened of who, and it was getting beyond a joke!

In desperation, I called Max and he agreed to come out. He explained that it might not be too pretty, and I assured him that we didn't do pretty. It was amazing, and I'd have paid his fee, simply to watch with someone else's horse.

He gently lassoed the youngster, who understandably, rather "went into one"! The point was that everything which happened to the foal, was self inflicted. There was minimal contact on the rope, and it was used to keep the two of them facing each other. After perhaps two or three minutes, of the foal's brain in overdrive, he leant against a wall, and feinted!!

We all stood quietly and watched. When the foal came round, and regained his composure, he walked up to Max, and planted his nose firmly against Max's chest. Max explained that the foal was checking his heart rate. Max then gently scratched is poll, which the foal welcomed, and fitted him with a rope halter. After five minutes of leading him around his box, with constant changes of direction, and with no contact, he suggested that he take the foal for a walk in the paddock! For a half hour, the foal was led about, still with no contact, in his box, back out again, round the paddock and back into his box again.

We went and had lunch, and went back out and repeated the leading process. To this day, the foal has never been a minutes trouble, and seems to be as fond of me, as I am of him.

What surprised me, was that at no time did Max talk to the foal. Generally we make soothing sounds to a frightened youngster, don't we? We talk to them, in an attempt to calm them. There was no fight, that I could see, in-fact no exertion on the part of Max, at all.

Following on from his visit, everything seems to have fallen into place. Within three days, I picked up all four feet, with only a shift in balance from the foal. The transformation, without any physical force being used, was remarkable.

Richard Maxwell is a highly skilled man, and the bonus was, that we liked him too. If your at your wit's end, then he's your man!

Alec.

That's awesome

 

[2Conker]

Too long ago for me to admit to, I first saw Richard Maxwell working with Terry Pendry at the Barracks at Windsor, where they trained the HouseHold Cavalry horses via the Monty Roberts method.

You know that sensation when you see 'talent' (whatever it is) or something exceptional in a horse, well it was definitely a case of that watching Richard. Very interesting to read how his abilities have grown and developed.

 

[Ladylina83]

All I know is that when our mare wouldn't load (and I mean wouldn't load) and we'd had everyone in the world trying to load her tried the feeding her in the box etc nothing worked we (in desperation) had him come to our yard.

He had the mare loading within 1/2 an hour and I never had a problem with her again... He didn't hit her once, he did pinch her shoulder a couple of times to get her to move away from him but that's as aggressive as he got.

I was truly in awe.

Bx

Dito !

 

[BBH]

I got shafted by a dealer years ago and ended up with an unrideable horse who everyone said to shoot. Professionals got on board and he threw them off aswell so not really a horse for an amateur.

Anyway I sent him to Max who took everything back to basics and gave me back a beautiful horse who had learned to trust again. It wasn't an overnight miracle because he was with Max 6 weeks and you can't turn deep rooted issues around in that time, but we came away with a training plan and a horse we could work with.

I'd recommend him to anyone.

 

[CBFan]

Didn't get to see the Demo yesterday but I do quite like Richard Maxwell. Common sense, straight talking and not egotistical like so many trainers. However the tapping thing confuses me too as we spend all our time teaching our horses to move away from pressure so I'm not sure how getting them to then move into pressure like that works? Other than that I'm someone who as a rule likes his way of working.

As I mentioned in my initial post I am a firm believer in NH Methods so I'm not completely against him... it was just this aspect I wasn't sure of.

It was the afternoon demo I saw and this was demonstrating how to teach your horse to move towards you

 

[BeckyBoodle]

Actually, I wonder if Thistle has hit the nail on the head. When I wanted my mare to move towards the mounting block of to follow the stick down the school in reverse should in, then I tapped. When I want her to move away I nudge/push. Two quite different things.

CBFan - I don't think you come across as against him, just questioning the methods and in fact if you can't question the methods then something isn't right.

My problem is that I usually think of the questions after the session and then forget to ask them at the next one.