Ride and drive breaking, which first?

[Nudibranch]

I've always done a bit of driving and am planning for my youngster to be ride and drive. He'll be professionally broken for each, but he'll be doing a lot of wearing tack, long reining, etc beforehand. He'll be rising four when he goes.

Originally I hadn't thought about it much and was going to have him under saddle for a while, then the driving later. However I wondered whether it might be worth having him sorted for driving first and then backing later. My thinking is it's a natural progression from a lot of basic ground work and long reining. Plus you're not burdening a young skeleton with any weight as he matures, but he's still in work and learning.

Against that I thought about the potential hazards of having a youngster in harness as opposed to saddle - but then it would be the same for any driving youngster. I'm aiming for him to be well used to being out and about long before he's harnessed to any vehicle.

Anyone done the same?

 

[Crosshill Pacers]

The horses we use for harness racing are broken in the cart first. It generally makes breaking them to ride a lot easier because the biggest part of the work is done!

 

[SKY]

i usually drive 1st then ride, but you can do either. its just usually easier to drive 1st as most of trainning is done for riding and also bomeproofs a horse more getting it used to everything. so when riding it is calmer for horse/pony.

 

[micki]

I have backed by youngster this year to ride and hopefully in a couple of years when i have got her going for the ridden work i will break her into drive. The reason i am doing it this way is because my friend has a ride and drive pony and he was driven most of his life and he has found the ridden side quite difficult to addapt to. He is fine with walk and trot but it has taken a long time for him to learn to canter without broncing. We think this is because under harness they aren't allowed to canter so he doesn't think he is allowed to canter. My friend has spoken to an old owner of his recently and he also has said the same thing about his canter and being driven.

 

[Littlelegs]

I'd say ride. If hacking forms any part of your work, I'd rather accustom it to strange sights & sounds without being encumbered by a cart. But that's because riding wise I have far more experience than my limited driving knowledge, someone who's experience is more driving may well say the opposite.

 

[Goldenstar]

Driving first would be my choice .

 

[PucciNPoni]

There are breeds of horses which are regularly ridden and driven (ie Morgans). They are almost always started in harness long before they are started under saddle. They can be driven at 2 and have much of their education started and are muscling up and are ready for backing when they're 3 1/2 or 4. I would prefer to have a horse who's been jogging away in harness over ridden first.

 

[HappyHooves]

I'd say ride. If hacking forms any part of your work, I'd rather accustom it to strange sights & sounds without being encumbered by a cart. But that's because riding wise I have far more experience than my limited driving knowledge, someone who's experience is more driving may well say the opposite.

agree! I now have a large and unschooled 'ride and drive'. I'm sure he's fine with a cart but the ridden work is awful. He is clearly not used to off road noises and other experiences which makes for some frightening moments. He has no knowledge of leg aids and is totally unconnected to the rider - doesn't look for support or acknowledge their presence. After all he has, for years, been out in front, and having to cope. I now have to send away a 9 year old to be started again for ridden work and schooling. ( don't have the facilities, nor the experience for this alas)
I would also say that driven work too young has, in my horse's case, lead to one over developed shoulder. I know that I am not the only one who has found this as I had several responses of a similar nature when discussing the problems of saddle fitting in such a case.

 

[Goldenstar]

agree! I now have a large and unschooled 'ride and drive'. I'm sure he's fine with a cart but the ridden work is awful. He is clearly not used to off road noises and other experiences which makes for some frightening moments. He has no knowledge of leg aids and is totally unconnected to the rider - doesn't look for support or acknowledge their presence. After all he has, for years, been out in front, and having to cope. I now have to send away a 9 year old to be started again for ridden work and schooling. ( don't have the facilities, nor the experience for this alas)
I would also say that driven work too young has, in my horse's case, lead to one over developed shoulder. I know that I am not the only one who has found this as I had several responses of a similar nature when discussing the problems of saddle fitting in such a case.

I broke my driving horse to ride at ten and yes they develop different muscles driving to riding .
Cantering is often very difficult for them and yes for the ten yo saddle fit was a challenge and he changed shape so much as he muscled up as a riding horse the saddler was at the house fortnightly for a while.
However OP was not intending to wait years to back her horse I think the discipline work all the standing training and the voice training and long lining is an excellent base to back them from .
Retraining driven horses to ride when they are older ( I have done three now)
Gives you a different set of challenges to straight backing of a youngster or reschooling a badly trained ridden horse but I have the system sussed now and was so much better and quicker with the last one as I have developed a system with the first two.

 

[katastrophykat]

Well, I've done things backwards!! My three year old has only ever been lunged once, long reined for a few weeks in harness and under saddle, closed and open bridles and then backed and ridden. He hasnt long reined for a couple of months since, but has hacked out quietly alone and in company. He's off to Andrew Mays in January to be broken to harness, and I asked Andrew what he wanted me to do with him before he went- either to ride him a little more (hacking about 2 miles once a week on average) or long rein, and he said it didnt really matter, as long as he's been out and about and seen a bit of life, he's happy.

So the once a week work continues, and I'll switch back to long reining in full harness come the start of December and have him pull a tyre about for a bit.

Nice to hear from so many driving bods!!

 

[Sunshine8]

It may not answer your question but with my ride and drive she was broken in parallel. She was extensively long reined and dragged stuff prior to backing. She was then backed and each week would progress for both.

 

[gillianfleming]

My boy was broken to harness first, then my friend got him when he was 4 to bring on under saddle.
He's now 23 and although i don't drive him much we are getting out tomorrow hopfully.
He has no problem cantering under saddle or with the carriage and has done so many different things during his career

 

[Moon]

Both my driving instructors from seperate places break to ride first, so they learn basic manners n get used to sights and sounds with a rider. id be very wary of a youngster in a cart that qasnt used to or at least been tried with a rider

 

[Goldenstar]

Both my driving instructors from seperate places break to ride first, so they learn basic manners n get used to sights and sounds with a rider. id be very wary of a youngster in a cart that qasnt used to or at least been tried with a rider

Just interested why ?
If I buy a driving horse all I am Interested in is how it drives .

 

[PuzzlePiece]

My driving knowledge is very limited but I know two people who have broken to ride/drive and both broke to drive first.

 

[gillianfleming]

My friend does a bit of training of youngsters and always drives them first, she says that they are easier to back when she has done driven work first

 

[jess2353]

mine was driving first as a 3yo by her old owner she's now rising 4 & has taken to being backed extremly well. But like someone else has also commented, she doesn't respond to leg aids or have any connection with the rider, & getting her to canter is like getting blood from a stone l

 

[Moon]

Sorry goldenstar cant quite on phone, i was tired when replying last night perhaps i should have explained. i have driven 6 youngsters 2 of which were driven before ridden when broken and one was a total nightmare and just didnt seem to listen and the other bombed off up the road with my instructor and me. Could be absolutely nothing to do with not being ridden first i think its just a personal thing... i also found that when they are driven first and you want a ride and drive, their paces are best taught ridden so they are established, like some have said canter can be difficult when they are driving horses first. Please excuse my nonsensicalness, was shattered last night!

 

[Moon]

P.s think it is the way i have been taught also, altho one of my instructors is regional head of the bds so i trust them completely.

 

[Goldenstar]

Sorry goldenstar cant quite on phone, i was tired when replying last night perhaps i should have explained. i have driven 6 youngsters 2 of which were driven before ridden when broken and one was a total nightmare and just didnt seem to listen and the other bombed off up the road with my instructor and me. Could be absolutely nothing to do with not being ridden first i think its just a personal thing... i also found that when they are driven first and you want a ride and drive, their paces are best taught ridden so they are established, like some have said canter can be difficult when they are driving horses first. Please excuse my nonsensicalness, was shattered last night!

Interesting when I want a driving horse I want a driving horse first and foremost and I have never bought a bad mannered horse from any of the driving homes they have much better disiplined at purchase driving good driving people are extremely good at producing driving horses and they don't do it by riding them.

 

[Maesfen]

Just interested why ?
If I buy a driving horse all I am Interested in is how it drives .

Wouldn't that limit it sale wise?

A friend drives internationally and she always breaks for both along side each other up until they are ready for a cart then she concentrates on the ridden work until it can do a decent test and XC, then she goes back to driving as she's found those done that way are easier to sell on as all rounders.

 

[Goldenstar]

Wouldn't that limit it sale wise?

A friend drives internationally and she always breaks for both along side each other up until they are ready for a cart then she concentrates on the ridden work until it can do a decent test and XC, then she goes back to driving as she's found those done that way are easier to sell on as all rounders.

Never really sell my horses anyway I would back it as soon as it arrived anyway .All my driving horses multitask once I have bought them.
Yes I think it's best to do as a oner driving first then ridden then on to whatever you want.
But if I am buying a driving horse I just want it to be good to drive anything else I can teach it myself and in fact really prefer to do so myself anyway .

 

[Moon]

Thats fine goldenstar, if you want a horse that is just a driving horse. i was just expressing my opinion, that in the cases i have experience of, its easier to break to ride first if you want a nice ride. each to their own

 

[Littlelegs]

What's with all this not cantering under harness? Maybe for some disciplines, but driving trials aren't done in trot!

 

[Moon]

^^^ i personally also love a good scurry, just got the impression somewhere along the thread that it was just for pootling around. I could be wrong, iv not had a coffee yet and i could quite happily go to sleep and wake up making more sense (hopefully) tomorrow. haha

 

[Goldenstar]

All my driving horses have been lovely to ride by the way .

 

[katastrophykat]

Can't quote as on phone but mine don't have problems cantering under harness either