Rider position - your instructor

Rowreach

Rowreach

Adjusting my sails
Joined
13 May 2007
Messages
18,109
Location
Northern Ireland
Visit site
I've just received an email from a particular organisation which specialises in horse and rider analysis, giving testimonials from riders who, almost without exception, say that they have never had an instructor who corrects their basic positional faults :confused:

Is this your experience too? The first thing I do when I teach people for the first time is look at their position in the saddle (quite often it is the saddle that dictates their position :)) and try to tactfully make changes - some people are happier about this than others :D but ultimately it makes sense to tweak the rider in order to be able to improve the horse - to me, anyway :)

So is it necessary to spend a fortune on "rider analysis" or should your instructor be doing this anyway?
 
Haha, it is silly to spend money on 'Rider analysis', and yes your instructor should correct your position, and if you're going to spend money analysing yourself, then you should have the discipline to correct yourself aswell.

I have seen many instructors that allow people to ride in horrible positions, and do not correct their bad habits.
I always make a point of correcting a position, and I think everyone who teaches should, esp with beginner riders. They are easier to teach because you can mould them from the outset and prevent faults in the position.
 
I think it differs from person to person, I wish I had a proper instructor when I first started learning years ago.

I sit very forward, round shoulders with a lightish seat - bag of spuds lookalike! It looks awful and I am well aware of it, have tried allsorts to rectify it but then gave up having lessons for years as I got fed up of paying money for somebody to spend the entire lesson saying "Sit up, sit tall"

My old instructor and the one I have now have come to understand that that is how I ride (30 years sat like it!) and work with how I am, she is actually now trying to use it to my advantage as in when I do manage to sit up it makes a damned good half halt!!

I think an analysis of that way you sit would be very beneficial but would probably scare the hell out of me and it would maybe make you more aware of things like riding one sided and collapsing hips etc.
 
How can you possibly be teaching if you aren't correcting position?

eg. my young horse was struggling to pick the correct canter lead. Because I was fixing my inside hand and collapsing through my inside hip therefore he couldn't lift through the shoulder and there was no way he could canter on the correct lead. Fixing him necessitated fixing me and that is pretty much always the case surely?

I'm always being told to lift my ribcage and put my shoulders back. I would really hope everyone got that during their lessons. Other wise what on earth are they paying for?
 
None of us have perfect conformation and I doubt any of us have the perfect position (a lot of the way we sit being determined by how we are put together, and body size/shape, the horse, the saddle etc) but I suppose what I'm getting at is that I teach people methods and "tricks of the trade" which help them to assess and adjust their own positions (when I'm not about to yell at them :)) - and I've learned this from one particular instructor who I've been training with for about 6 years - before that, I don't think any instructor really helped me to understand WHY I was sitting badly/wrongly :(

I now know all the things I do wrong :o I think being analysed by a computer would depress me too much :D
 
I'm well aware of all my naughty habits too. I don't need a computer to tell me what they are I don't think. I'd just be depressed too, especially as I've had the same bad habits for years and even though I can make myself stop with them if I try very hard I always slip back to the same ones as my 'default setting'

Plus it sounds expensive and I spend all my money at the vets!
 
Following my rather scary bogging off incident on Friday I am now having lessons on my trainers horse and my god has he been concentrating on position, breathing (apparently I forget to) and being in synch with the horse....lesson 4 today and still in walk:-)))

My thighs are killing and I have realized the only time he stops nagging about my heel position is when it hurts.

Actually really good going right back to basics as I think like driving a lot of not so good habits creep in.
 
I think alot of instructors cover the basics, i.e You need to sit up, heels down etc.
But alot of people arne't actually told why they sit like that and why it is benificial to rectify it.

Only one instructor I know, my Ex Boss, explained everything and she was very good ad softening people up, reducing rider muscle tension and therefore reducing horse tension over their backs, and getting people to sit straighter.

Other then that in my experience instructors think, ok they are sat up, heels down. Now focus on the horse as opposed to making them sit straighter if that makes sense?
 
Gosh I havent had a lesson in about 3 years :eek: Any instructor i ever had just covered the basics of heels down, sit up straight. There was even one at the RS that didnt teach how to get a horse on the right canter lead or rising trot on the right diagonal. I just gave up on lessons when i got my own horse as it wasnt helping and i didnt agree with the instructors methods. I think the last lesson i had was a group Dr lesson with the RC and all i got said to me in the whole 1hr was "He has a great outline i suspect hes competed in Dressage?" ... Ummm yea i think that was all, might have been because my horse was the best behaved in the lesson whilst everyone else was having trouble stopping but it would have been nice to have some input instead of being ignored. Atm im still debating having lessons with the baby as i dont think theres any point in wasting peoples time to instruct me on jumping x poles.
 
I am starting to suspect that my instuctor is more of a gem than I realised. I assumed everyone got nagged about sitting straight, using core muscles, keeping a still contact with the outside hand, not collapsing this way or that way, not gripping with the thigh and all the other things I am frequently found guilty of. I get quite detailed feedback on how my position is blocking this or that or how changing things might improve my horse.

RI I love you! :D
 
I think some instructors are far better than others at noticing positional faults, along with correcting them.

One instructor of mine never picked on a positional fault of mine, and I firmly believe it's because she didn't see any (well other than heels down!). I think this was due to her lack of training.

Another instructor only saw me ride occassionally, but every time she'd straight away tell me to roll my shoulders back, and she'd get me riding completely differently. I always found this funny, as no other instructor had ever picked on this fault in my riding, but following her advice made a positive difference.
 
Can't really see how anyone can teach without reference to your position?
My instructor says continuously throughout the lesson, relax your knee, right hip forward, left shoulder back, soften your ankle, raise your right hand two inches, your leg has moved forward, your blocking with your lower back etc. etc. etc. Diane then discusses with me my position and where I am holding tension in my body and not allowing my horse to do what I am asking of him, (which is usually the case). She always says "place your horse in a position where he wants to do what you are asking of him and then let him do it". ;)
 
My experience of lessons is that instructors focus a lot on my position and I have found that if I forget about the horse (e.g. stressing about getting him rounder) and focus on myself, the horse follows from that!
 
My current instructor concentrates totally on what I'm doing, only pointing out what the horse is doing when it relates to what I am doing right or wrong. It makes such a huuuuge difference from a previous instructor who, while brilliant in her way, concentrated too much on how the horse was going rather than on how I had to change what I was doing in order to influence the horse. I think perhaps she is just so good at understanding and 'reading' horses that she found it easier to tell me what the horse was doing/needed to be doing than what I should be doing, if that makes sense?
 
I would still class myself as a relative novice but have had lessons with a few instructors over the years. One actually complimented me on my position and I only realised some years later that it was actually incorrect in almost every respect! I don't think any of them ever said more than 'sit up' or 'heels down' or some such, and none of them ever explained how to make a correction properly or why.

My current instructor uses the RWYM methodology and it has been a complete revelation.
Not only has she delved into exactly what I currently do (or did!?) but has explained the effect this has on the horse and therefore how and why the corrections will help. I firmly believe that 99.9% of times when I don't get what I want it's down to rider error/asymmetry. Some of this is really hard to correct, especially if you've been doing it that way for years, but I've found that a poor position hinders me from giving correct and accurate aids as well as compromising my balance and therefore the horses balance too.

I still have a very long way to go (the more I learn, the more I realise I need to learn) but I am finally beginning to understand what I am striving for!
 
I always correct positions but not everything at once because i know some riders- particularly those at a lower level or those who are very stuck in their ways- struggle to keep everything in their mind at once. I will show them how the need to be positioned, and explain why but i know that if i spend a whole lesson niggling time after time (toes up, heels down, shoulders back, don't tip forward, lift your hands up.....) they often feel like i am constantly criticising and that they are not really progressing in learning anything with the horse!

I try to work on one thing at a time and when that improves gradually move onto the next worst thing! That way riders do not feel like they are being constantly niggled at because some people have ridden that way for years and it is not something any instructor or method of teaching would be able to change overnight!
 
When I teach someone for the first time I always give a mini lecture on the classical rider position, what it looks like and why strive to sit like it. I explain the horse can not go to the best of it's ability unless they are sitting well balanced on the horse and that they can put the horse out of balance if not sitting correctly. I use the analogy of them carrying a badly loaded lopsided rucksack to help their understanding and then I nag consistently about it the whole time, every time I see a fault occurring. I nag about carrying hands because if they don't they tip forwards. I nag about thumbs on top because if not they cant give through the elbow and shoulder. I nag about heels because it makes them more secure and explain that if the horse does anything the toe then acts as a break keeping them in the saddle. I tell them to check good event riders and see how deep their heels are. If the heel is up and toe down they just pivot/tip straight out the side/front door. Most don't have the suppleness in the ankle so I give them homework of standing on the edge of a step/ stairs with their heels hanging and dip their heels to stretch the required muscles.

I have watched other people teach and am horrified that with some positional faults are rarely mentioned, even critical ones, like heels down for seat security. I am even more horified when this goes on week in week out.

I then get on my own horse and proceed to tip too far forwards which drives me nuts. I wish I could teach myself because constant nagging not to would do wonders for my riding. Things go so much better as soon as I sit up!
 
My instructor corrects my position, and explains why by using a whip as the horse and showing me on the ground how my thigh/hip/heel position will affect the horse's position and straightness.

Like jesstickle, think I have an absolute gem of an instructor - wish I'd met him years ago.
 
NicoleS_007 said:
Gosh I havent had a lesson in about 3 years :eek: Any instructor i ever had just covered the basics of heels down, sit up straight. There was even one at the RS that didnt teach how to get a horse on the right canter lead or rising trot on the right diagonal. I just gave up on lessons when i got my own horse as it wasnt helping and i didnt agree with the instructors methods. I think the last lesson i had was a group Dr lesson with the RC and all i got said to me in the whole 1hr was "He has a great outline i suspect hes competed in Dressage?" ... Ummm yea i think that was all, might have been because my horse was the best behaved in the lesson whilst everyone else was having trouble stopping but it would have been nice to have some input instead of being ignored. Atm im still debating having lessons with the baby as i dont think theres any point in wasting peoples time to instruct me on jumping x poles.
Click to expand...

I think you would enjoy coming to Camp in July :)
 
i dont think its a matter of not having position corrected its how its done - sit up straight - what does that mean? - most people interpret it as stick chest out, shoulders back - in turn lift rib cage hollow back and they have actually made themselves ineffective and usually will end up behind the movement of the horse.
Another favourite - heels down - so ppl shove heel down -in turn usually pushing lower leg forward and are now in a chair seat and behind the movement and their weight is not distributed well either -
I have lessons with a biomechanics trainer who explains it all in a different way. Ours lessons are mainly about my position and how it affects the horse.
 
I was very lucky when training as a working pupil for my BHSAI in having an instructor who insisted on a correct position, (as correct as rider conformation allows anyway!) Lessons were always without stirrups, only getting them back for the last ten minutes of the lesson and lunge lessons were popular. Everything was always explained eg, why you need your head up, thumbs on top, heels down etc.
Not only that, but you were expected to be effective and make lazy horses work and faster spookier ones remain calm while maintaining the correct position.
We rarely focused on what problems the horse had, as correcting the rider and working on specific exercises invariably produced the results for the horse.
I'm glad I did it all when I was young, I think it would kill me now:eek: But I will always be eternally grateful for that good teaching that gave me a such a good grounding to work from.

I hated it when working as an instructor I'd get the odd client who wanted to work solely on the horse without recognising the influence that the rider had, although to be fair that was only one or two.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top