Rider problem/bit problem?

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onebigjump

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Hi,
Sorry if this is lengthy or comes across a bit jumbled. I'm not the best at getting my thoughts onto paper!

I have a 14.2 cob type (no idea on breed, would say looks dales type). Lovely little chap on the ground and in the field etc.
Also back, teeth and tack all fine.

We moved to somewhere with a school last year, and although progress is slow id say he's coming along nicely. Starting to do lateral work, working through his back better and accepting a contact. He's riden in a micklem with a an expert bits comfy barrel baucher. Seems to get on well with this, was previously fussy in a loose ring lozenge.

My issues are mostly just hacking. He's a very spooky pony out hacking, totally fine in traffic and with trains rushing past him though. He's fairly fit at the moment, he's far stronger to ride than previously. and I'm just finding him a struggle, he's constantly trying to rush with his head in the air. Open his mouth like he's yawning and trying to evade the bit. I try to use lateral work with him, try to keep him forward with my leg but he will then try to get faster and rush more. I use my seat and core to try and maintain a steady speed with him. Lots of half halts etc.

Nothing seems to work, and I just find it so frustrating! I feel like I'm having to use my hands far more than I'd like to, I really dont want to be hanging off the reins but he just evades my seat and leg aids constantly! He has a tendency to get very stressed/stroppy and you just can not get anything from him at that point.

I've had lessons in the school on him, ive also been having some mechanical horse lessons. And while I'm not some fantastic pro rider ive been told that I have a balanced seat with light steady hands.

I just really dont know where I'm going wrong on a hack, do I try him in a different bit? Perhaps something with a different action (eg a kimblewick). Or is it something I'm doing wrong?
 
Get his teeth done under sedation if you haven't already. I know many horses don't "need" sedated but a dental tech can't get the same access without.

If its not teeth then it's stress (or discomfort elsewhere) and he needs more support when he's hacking. Head in the air and evading the bit is being over threshold from stress (or pain or both). You can't always just ride your way through a horse having a physiological reaction to stress with just riding prowess. Hop off and lead him for a bit, teach him to long rein so he has you on the ground but still has to be a little bit brave, take him out with a steady friend, let him stop and look at things instead of pushing past. He is telling you he isn't having a good time, not that you're not a good enough rider. Pushing him to do lateral work is a commonly given bit of advice but that only works if the stress level is low enough that he can still focus. If he is beyond that point you are just adding more stress to an already stressful situation for him, when you could add comfort instead.

My pony is also spooky out hacking AND excellent in traffic, because maybe it's loud and close but traffic is predictable. There are a lot of things they meet on a hack that we don't even notice but that aren't predictable to them.
 
smolmaus said:
Get his teeth done under sedation if you haven't already. I know many horses don't "need" sedated but a dental tech can't get the same access without.

If its not teeth then it's stress (or discomfort elsewhere) and he needs more support when he's hacking. Head in the air and evading the bit is being over threshold from stress (or pain or both). You can't always just ride your way through a horse having a physiological reaction to stress with just riding prowess. Hop off and lead him for a bit, teach him to long rein so he has you on the ground but still has to be a little bit brave, take him out with a steady friend, let him stop and look at things instead of pushing past. He is telling you he isn't having a good time, not that you're not a good enough rider. Pushing him to do lateral work is a commonly given bit of advice but that only works if the stress level is low enough that he can still focus. If he is beyond that point you are just adding more stress to an already stressful situation for him, when you could add comfort instead.

My pony is also spooky out hacking AND excellent in traffic, because maybe it's loud and close but traffic is predictable. There are a lot of things they meet on a hack that we don't even notice but that aren't predictable to them.
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Thank you, thats really useful advise! I will have him checked under sedation.

I do hop off him from time to time and he is perfectly fine and relaxed. I rarely hack him alone i nearly always have someone on foot and he is fsr more comfortable if he is behind them or along side them. Just recently I have been pushing him on ahead to take him out of his comfort zone slightly.

He is definitely the stressed type, often feels like he could explode. But he doesnt, he just seems to internalise it and become "argumentative" if that makes sense
 
onebigjump said:
Thank you, thats really useful advise! I will have him checked under sedation.

I do hop off him from time to time and he is perfectly fine and relaxed. I rarely hack him alone i nearly always have someone on foot and he is fsr more comfortable if he is behind them or along side them. Just recently I have been pushing him on ahead to take him out of his comfort zone slightly.

He is definitely the stressed type, often feels like he could explode. But he doesnt, he just seems to internalise it and become "argumentative" if that makes sense
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It does make sense, and mine sounds very similar tbh, but he isn't being argumentative, he is telling you he is uncomfortable. Pushing him slightly out of his comfort zone is good but if he is displaying the behaviour in your first post he is just telling you he isn't ready for what you're asking.

If you have someone on foot (very valuable!!!) then long reining will be easier as they can walk with him while you're behind (and direct traffic from the front) and then gradually drop back until he is leading. Or just keep going as you're going with you mounted and when pony is relaxed, ask foot soldier to drop behind a bit. They can come up in front again for stressy bits or even lead him if they bring a lead rope. You build confidence from giving them good experiences!
 
I did loads of groundwork with my similar young horse, lots of washing lines, scary things , in the school, and inhand hacks. If I heard a lawn mower or a chainsaw, I'd head us towards it ( the user always stopped when they saw us, so you'd have to ask them to carry on😂) and the result was almost a Police horse! We've met boy racers, zooming towards us, sounding their horns and flashing their lights, a Doberman trying to attack us, an unbelievably enormous, very low flying aircraft for example, and all met with a calm " we've got this" attitude. ( I was decidedly less calm about the dog than he was!) I think if you establish trust on the ground it transfers to ridden work.
 
It takes time. We did lots in hand and with someone walking and ours are now pretty solid. Do you take snacks? I always have a pocket full of fibre nuggets. Chewing brings stress levels down. Ours have also been taught to slow / stop off a neck rope so no need for a tug of war.
 
I don't think it is always pain. My cob cross, Rigs, is very steady on the school. He is fab to hack at walk and when trotting in a non canter area. He is, however, very keen when he gets to a canter grass area, or stubble field; max acceleration and zoom, he's gone.

When I bought him, the previous owner said he wouldn't canter behind and yes, he was strong. But, with schooling, he became polite. I would half halt strongly enough that he had to take notice, and that was sometimes stronger than I wanted to, but it was what was needed. Once the good half halt was done, I would relax the rein. At first, he would just accelerate into the space left in the rein, so he was robustly half halted again. After a while, he got it and would go into canter, canter on a loose rein with happy relaxation, even behind another. He would need the occasional half halt but understood that zoomies were out!

Then, my novice BF started to ride him. He is a newbie and had no concept of schooling. He soon started to 'hold' Rigs in canter rather than insist on a relaxed contact (TBF, he had little idea what a relaxed contact would be LOL) and Rigs started zooming again.

As he was a novice, and I liked him riding, I just bitted Rigs up so I knew he could stop. Then had to bit him up a bit more, as he worked his way from a snaffle, to a Wilkie and now a Tom Thumb. I was planning on a Kimblewick next.

However, in the meantime, I hurt my leg and didn't ride for 6 weeks. My big horse went to be ticked over at a friend's and Rigs was the only one here to start riding on so I have. He was so rude! But, after being re-educated for the past 10 days, he is remembering that he has to hold the canter speed I set and not zoom off.

I genuinely think he like his 100m dashes! That is roughly what he zooms for, then pulls up to a woah. I don't think it is nerves or pain. It was a habit and worry maybe that someone would pull on his face, but once re-educated he learned that all he had to do was hold a polite contact. Of course, the good work will come undone after tomorrow, when BF is riding him again, but that's OK. I mean, I would rather it didn't happen, but they seem safe enough and to both enjoy their outings.

By all means, check him out in teeth, saddle, vet etc, but maybe also get someone practical to teach you, who will actually get on the horse out hacking and see if they can re-educate him. A lot of work can be done in a couple of sessions and they may be able to help you.
 
Than you everyone for the advice. Your right he's not being argumentative, just couldn't think of a better word to describe it.
I'd quite happily stop and let him stand and look at things, he doesnt want to! If you try to get him to stand he will get very agitated and stressy and thats where I'm having difficulty holding him.
Have done lots of groundwork with him, he's absolutely bomb proof on the ground. I will often walk with him on a hack rather than riding and he will happily bimble along behind or beside. This has been an ongoing issue since the beginning, but just recently with his fitness and strength increasing it does seem to have got worse.

You've all given lots of ideas for me to try out so will continue to work with him. I just want him to be happy and comfortable
 
Just to add that he's the kind of pony that you can put an absolute novice on and he is calm and steady. It does seem as though if someone who wants to actually "ride him" is where the issue lies.
 
I took him on a solo hack today, as my other half wasn't able to come with me when I left. He was actually a lot better, more relaxed. I wonder if not having someone that he wants to walk behind stopped him getting so stressed?
I didn't fuss so much about actually riding him and found he had a lower more relaxed head carriage. Also took a pocket of treats, that was brilliant advice! It really worked to help him keep his stress levels low. And gave me the opportunity to just get him to stop and stand.
He did tank off with me twice which I'm not entirely sure is related to his anxiety issues, more that he thinks he can just bugger off home or something. Did have to use a one rein stop on one occasion! My other half actually walked up to meet me when I was on my way back so I let him walk the last bit home behind him so that he could bimble along and distress!
Sorry for rambling on! Just wanted to say thank you for all of your advice
 
onebigjump said:
Just to add that he's the kind of pony that you can put an absolute novice on and he is calm and steady. It does seem as though if someone who wants to actually "ride him" is where the issue lies.
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To me he sounds like he is confused with the aids you are giving him. And the above post makes me think this even more. When a novice is on him, no conflicting aids are given.

[...] try to keep him forward with my leg but he will then try to get faster and rush more. I use my seat and core to try and maintain a steady speed with him. Lots of half halts etc.
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I cannot help but think that your horse finds these aids conflicting.
 
onebigjump said:
I took him on a solo hack today, as my other half wasn't able to come with me when I left. He was actually a lot better, more relaxed. I wonder if not having someone that he wants to walk behind stopped him getting so stressed?
I didn't fuss so much about actually riding him and found he had a lower more relaxed head carriage. Also took a pocket of treats, that was brilliant advice! It really worked to help him keep his stress levels low. And gave me the opportunity to just get him to stop and stand.
He did tank off with me twice which I'm not entirely sure is related to his anxiety issues, more that he thinks he can just bugger off home or something. Did have to use a one rein stop on one occasion! My other half actually walked up to meet me when I was on my way back so I let him walk the last bit home behind him so that he could bimble along and distress!
Sorry for rambling on! Just wanted to say thank you for all of your advice
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I wonder if taking the treats relaxed you a little bit. :)

'I didn't fuss so much about actually riding him...'

I think that's key.

Tanking off I understand. Who wouldn't want to tank off (if they were a horse)? Nice to have a good stretch when one is capable of doing so. I don't think that's part of the problem.

Don't worry about the rambling. I tend to write the same way.
 
I think you could be right with me confusing him. He's not had much schooling, he's very new to that side of things and perhaps its just too much for him to understand when he's in a situation he already finds stressful.
Maybe I shall also take a pocket full of treats for myself! I dont feel particularly service when riding him tbh, even when he's being spooky or trying to get strong.
 
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