Riding on the road - the rider just as much to blame?

AprilBlossom

AprilBlossom

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Having read a couple of 'the roads are so dangerous' threads recently, I get the impression the impending cars caused the riders to get a bit worked up and anxious, then find their horse spooks at said car.

Now I'm not trying to apply a blanket rule but it's just when I go out and ride on the road I have implicit trust in my horse and he in I, and no spookiness at all. Yes, cars pass too fast, yes cars pass a little closer then I'd like, but instead of gettingall angry/nervous I find I just sigh and continue on my merry way and have never had problems even on a very busy 50mph limit road.

So what I'm wondering is how much of an effect do you think the rider has on the 'normally good in traffic' horse, and how much is it actually the driver panicking the horse??
 
yes i supose this is possible in some cases but surely asking a car to politley slow down if its coming too fast is trying to prevent a nasty accident that could happen, or is that asking too much. :-/
 
Absolutely.
I sometimes hack out with someone who gets so worked up and anxious when we approach a white van / bus / tractor that the only logical reaction her horse can take is to spook at it. I've hacked her horse out and he's absolutely fine. Makes you wonder...
 
Not all the time, my horse never spooks at vehicles no matter how fast their going it makes no difference really. However a car speeding past a horse means the driver would be completely un-able to react quickly enough to the horse spooking at something else - which can happen.

Not only that but the other day i was walking along the road minding my own business (in full hi-viz i hasten to add) i heard a car coming up behind which sounded to be going very quickly and not slowing down. It was doing WELL over the 60mph speedlimit and as it got alongside me stuck it's horn on. I don't think however i was riding would of made much difference to my poor horses reaction, luckily said car was going so fast it was well out the way otherwise we might well have ended up on his bonnet.

And it's incidents like that which make me say the roads are a dangerous place for horse & rider an i try to avoid them if i can.
 
We've been driven past at a frightening speed and so close that my foot has clipped the wing mirror. However I trust Jake not to do anything stupid, even though he is only 5 and has only been off the track around 5 months. Yet he has been ridden out my someone else and sees monsters everywhere and spooks at cars. the rider in question is prone to being a bit more nervous, where as I trust him not to do anything really daft without good reason.

I have had horses though, that no matter who rides them or where, they are always a nightmare on the road.

This thread has just reminded me that I need to get a new 'pass wide and slow' hi-vis.
 
another things it isnt always traffic that spooks your horse whilst out riding it could be somthing in the hedge somone strimming or even cutting down tree's in a garden that the driver zooming towards you is totally unawre off.
So it dosnt matter how good your horse is in traffic, it is an animal and they can all be unpredicatable.
 
Ticobay yes horses are unpredictable but if the rider cat remain calm and exude their confidence to their horse then I don't see how they can hack out safely, regardless of the obstacles/hazards, or lack of.
 
I thoroughly understand your point, I see many riders who spot something potentially scary - to them, not the horses - who then gather the reins, hold on until their knuckles are going white and go stiff as a board as they approach said object. Horse then thinks...hang on...that's GOT to be something scary, I should react...BUT I also regularly ride a horse who feeds all her "logic" if you like off the rider as to whether something is scary or not. She is regularly hacked along a main dual carriageway and is very well behaved, not bothered by lorries, buses, tractors, cars, bikes. I know that you need to stay calm when you're riding her - but if a car comes right up behind her, then revs and speeds past, hits its horn right behind her, or hits a grid (nobody's fault), or something else you can't control - of course its going to spook her.

Take this example; not the same horse but another horse I was riding, again, very good in traffic, hacking round a very quiet estate near the yard. A van (Royal Mail none the less!) approached us from behind very fast (I'm talking 30mph+, on a Sat morning when the estate was full of kids playing too) - we had correct hi viz gear on. My horse had a bit of a fidget and I asked the van to slow down; instead of slowing down, he got right behind us, inches from my horse's bum and revved, and revved, and revved. Obviously my horse spooked, so satisfied with that he sped past, spooking the other horse we were with.

As we caught up with him I asked him politely if he would mind slowing down a little next time he passed horses on the road - to which I got a mouthful with no hint of an apology for his behaviour.
K x
 
I think i agree too. A friend rode my boy the other day and i dont know if it was because he doesnt know her or because shes more nervous in traffic but ive had him 6 months and do road wprk every day and ive never known him to even flinch at a car. Yes a leaf that is a slightly different shade of green might eat him but cars/vans/lorries are normally fine. But when my friend was on him he spooked at a lorry, kicked a wing mirror of a park van and then span and bolted for home.

Shes supposed to be a more confident rider than me. I wonder if thats a bit of a mask ;) and my boy picked up on her apprehension!!!!
 
KellysHeroes said:
I thoroughly understand your point, I see many riders who spot something potentially scary - to them, not the horses - who then gather the reins, hold on until their knuckles are going white and go stiff as a board as they approach said object. Horse then thinks...hang on...that's GOT to be something scary, I should react...BUT I also regularly ride a horse who feeds all her "logic" if you like off the rider as to whether something is scary or not. She is regularly hacked along a main dual carriageway and is very well behaved, not bothered by lorries, buses, tractors, cars, bikes. I know that you need to stay calm when you're riding her - but if a car comes right up behind her, then revs and speeds past, hits its horn right behind her, or hits a grid (nobody's fault), or something else you can't control - of course its going to spook her.

Take this example; not the same horse but another horse I was riding, again, very good in traffic, hacking round a very quiet estate near the yard. A van (Royal Mail none the less!) approached us from behind very fast (I'm talking 30mph+, on a Sat morning when the estate was full of kids playing too) - we had correct hi viz gear on. My horse had a bit of a fidget and I asked the van to slow down; instead of slowing down, he got right behind us, inches from my horse's bum and revved, and revved, and revved. Obviously my horse spooked, so satisfied with that he sped past, spooking the other horse we were with.

As we caught up with him I asked him politely if he would mind slowing down a little next time he passed horses on the road - to which I got a mouthful with no hint of an apology for his behaviour.
K x
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I completely agree it's on a case-by-case basis but I think its becoming all too common to panic, get the s**ts up your horse so it fidgets a little and then get all angry at the driver who didnt see a horse, turn off it's engine and wait until youd got well over half a mile away...

I think people forget that as horse riders, we make up a very small proportion of road-users nowadays, and whilst nonetheless have equal rights on the road, have to accept that some drivers, through simple ignorance, will drive a little faster past us than we'd like, or a little closer than we think ideal, and getting all annoyed and shouting and gesticulating into their rear view mirror isnt going to give us a good name and help the cause.

Agreed, there are also just some complete idiots who will only learn, sadly, when a tonne of horse comes crashing through their windscreen into their laps.
 
AprilBlossom said:
I completely agree it's on a case-by-case basis but I think its becoming all too common to panic, get the s**ts up your horse so it fidgets a little and then get all angry at the driver who didnt see a horse, turn off it's engine and wait until youd got well over half a mile away...

I think people forget that as horse riders, we make up a very small proportion of road-users nowadays, and whilst nonetheless have equal rights on the road, have to accept that some drivers, through simple ignorance, will drive a little faster past us than we'd like, or a little closer than we think ideal, and getting all annoyed and shouting and gesticulating into their rear view mirror isnt going to give us a good name and help the cause.

Agreed, there are also just some complete idiots who will only learn, sadly, when a tonne of horse comes crashing through their windscreen into their laps.
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I don't shout and meemaw at them...honestly! :p No, in all seriousness, I'm more concerned about getting the horse walking forwards, focused on where they're going and forgetting about it should we have a near incident. Just in that case, the postie was stood at a door right next to us so I thought maybe a polite word would get us an apology...but I was wrong!
K x
 
NO, the rider is not just as much to blame. If the cars slowed down and left plenty of room, which is the only way to safely pass horses, riders wouldn't end up bricking it all the time. If you are able to not see or feel danger when a vehicle passes you close at speed you are actually away with the fairies because real danger is very much there unless you have a particularly confident, well established horse.

In fact, I have one of those - an 18 year old driving pony who has always been very confident on the roads in all and the heaviest traffic, she was spooked by a clattering open backed loaded up truck tearing down the middle of the road (another flipping narrow country lane with no where to go and a stupid, worthless 60mph speed limit) straight towards her, pony spun, carriage jack-knifed, pony kicked the carriage and ended up with a fractured splint bone and a ruptured tendon sheath. She didn't even have a rider, and she had me driving and I had had total confidence in her up to that point.

You are delusional if you don't realize that even if you are on the most established of horses, its like russian roulette that this might just be be the unlucky time the horse reacts to something just as some idiot comes flying past.
 
KellysHeroes said:
I don't shout and meemaw at them...honestly! :p No, in all seriousness, I'm more concerned about getting the horse walking forwards, focused on where they're going and forgetting about it should we have a near incident. Just in that case, the postie was stood at a door right next to us so I thought maybe a polite word would get us an apology...but I was wrong!
K x
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Maybe you have the same postie as me - he's in such a rush to get everywhere he routinely leaves our gate wide open despite the fact that we have dogs running loose! Grrr
 
Haven't read the replies but just wanted to say I totally agree with you, but it's not just that!

I ride a baby and we had a terrible incident with a forage harvester who squeezed past me, in hindsight I should have never allowed it, but the horse was only frightened nobody was hurt, we still go on the roads and pass alsorts of farm machinery and lorries and he is becoming very good again, on Saturday we passed road works!!!!!! I thought OMG how do I get home, was flashing lights, men rolling the tarmac with machines etc, he hesitated.. I said come on we can do this and he walked past like he was a veteran!! Chuffed I was.

When cars come past I slow them down and I pretend I am rocking a baby in my arms and let them know he is a baby, they laugh at me acknowlege me and I gush thanks at them!

Now the amount of times I pass slow and wind for young girls /older women on horses and I get a nod and a hand up, it kind of winds me up, maybe it shouldn't but I thinks ffs why can't you smile, bend down and say thanks or weathers nice etc.... I know I should be happy with a nod, but I think its so up yourself!

Blimey I nearly fall off my youngster waving and saying thanks, ok so the locals probably think I am nuts, but I rarely have trouble with speedy drivers and if I do I tell them what I think xx
 
There was a girl on our yard, who was also an AI and had clients on our yard.

She taught her clients and also carried out the same practice of riding down the centre of the road, to slow cars down. This seemed to incite car drivers as she didn't move over when she had something behind her.

I only rode out with her once as it was just too embarrassing :o!

Having been stuck behind her and another one of her minions on another occasion, I could feel my blood pressure rising, so I can see how non horse owners used to get mad at her!

So yes, in her case, she imo incited car drivers to drive inappropriately.
 
Totally agree that many riders ''wind-up'' horses, any anger goes down the reins

There are however many drivers out there running on tight schedules with no thought beyond getting to the next port of call as quickly as possible.

Following the Horses Help Heroes yesterday with vehicles in front and behind flashing traffic to take care one huge tanker overtook way too fast. The horses took no notice but..........
 
I know I'm partially (mostly) to blame for the way my mare is on teh roads. We were hit by a car when she was younger - they came too fast round a sharp blind bend. Luckily all the did was knock us with their wing mirror and push us off the road. It knocked both of our confidence, espiecially as I wasn't one for hackng anyway really. When we went out afterwards I was tense and she was mucking about everytime a car came near (think vertical bucks etc) - we both wound each other up and it has resulted in dangerous behaviour on teh roads meaning we don't hack at all now. I lead her out in hand and shes loads better, the only reason I haven't taken it further is I can't afford to have a bad accident (time off work etc) and she refuses to be ridden by anyone else. We're working on tho and will have another bash this summer :)
 
I don't think the question has an answer.

Our two are very used to traffic in all sorts of situations, however, a big rattly trailer, or a tractor with a large machine in tow can get my lad a little on his toes. However, these are not the situations that worry me, it is a old folk who nearly crash into us, front or back, simply because they cannot see us (yes we wear hi-viz), or the knob on his weekend tassel tractor (Harley Davidson or similar) who constantly revs the engine, or the lads / girls screaming at us, or throwing McD wrappers / empty bottles, out of the window, or the (old) boy racers who think the best way to let you know they are behind you, while you are riding on a single track road, is to get as close as possible and rev the life out of the car while riding the clutch. These are the dangerous situations, along with an inexhaustibly supply of new ones.

Unsurprisingly, when we take the dobbins on hols to Exmoor, the drivers, local and visitors, all slow down and act extremely responsibly, probably because when in the country they almost expect to see horses and riders. Or maybe it's just that people down there are not is such a blinding bl**dy rush to get somewhere!

Lets face it, there are far too many incompetent and stressy people on the roads, some drive cars and some ride horses.
 
no - i don't agree with this, in my own opinion what you are implying is that the only time a horse will spook is if the rider tenses - sorry but horses are flight animals if you saw a horse in the wild just stand there as a lion came to eat them i think you would be worried - they don't know whats in the bush! it could full well eat them i was unaware that horses had turned into robots - sorry. if there is a sudden noise which neither horse or rider were not expecting then i full well expect that horse to spook. if that happens on a road well be it - drivers should slow down they don't know if a horse is gonna spook so why should they expect them not to. no i don't agree with what you are saying but thats my own opinion :)
 
quirky said:
There was a girl on our yard, who was also an AI and had clients on our yard.

She taught her clients and also carried out the same practice of riding down the centre of the road, to slow cars down. This seemed to incite car drivers as she didn't move over when she had something behind her.

I only rode out with her once as it was just too embarrassing :o!

Having been stuck behind her and another one of her minions on another occasion, I could feel my blood pressure rising, so I can see how non horse owners used to get mad at her!

So yes, in her case, she imo incited car drivers to drive inappropriately.
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There seems to be some who go out of their way to antagonise drivers with 'I have as much right to be on the road as you and I'm going to exercise that right no matter what!'. I have ridden two abreast on many occasions on quite roads, but tuck in behind as soon as I hear a car coming.

I find a lot of those Lycra clad cyclist are the same (cycling virtually in the middle of the road, not pulling over even slightly on a single track road, etc), shame, 'cos they do nobody any favours at all.
 
I think an expectation that they will be ok does help. We have one who is pretty much 100% in traffic, If I ride him down the A38 he normally just zones out to everything (is otherwise generally spooky!). I have only had him jink at a car once.. that was a ford fiesta with a 12ft plank sticking out the sunroof bouncing and with a carrier bag on the end that got pretty close.
mum's mare will never be 100% we know she had an accident with a skip lorry as a youngster before we had her and she just cannot cope with large traffic. We have had one accident with her and a tractor and a ditch (she goes into reverse) so are a bit more careful now. Our local farmers all know her and know we will whack her in a gateway asap.

We have altered our hacking route a bit more over the summer, taking in more traffic and she is definitely improving for it. We do take her on the main road (we have to do about 300yds to get to bridleway but we do this bit 2 abreast if she is with us, as I deem it much safer for everyone, and Frank feels quite superior acting as body guard ;)
 
Ditto a lot of the above.

Yes some things happen which will spook even the best horse and calmest riders - and some of you seem to be cursed with the nastiest drivers round you, we're generally quite lucky.

But equally IMO, if as a rider you're petrified of being out there - don't go! I, for some reason, really don't like hacking out alone (roadwork or not) - and so I don't generally do it. I don't see the point of giving myself a tense unenjoyable time, potentially upsetting the horse too, for the sake of a bit more forward planning to be able to hack out with company. I do it if I have to, for example when working other people's horses for them and I'm not so unconfident about it that I'm going to really c*** it up - for example the other week I drove up to catch a horse who'd been on holiday on different pasture for a month, saddled it up, hopped on board and rode it home alone despite the fact it was pretty fresh and hadn't been out alone for years! But I don't set out to do it all the time, because I don't enjoy it - so what's the point? I know what I'm doing out there and have safe horses, but it's not my bag. This is what I don't get about the people who are literally terrified of riding out on the roads, don't then! Find a yard with off road hacking, or box your horse up to hack off road - it's meant to be fun ;)

I also agree with the person above who said about other riders annoying even horsey people - I get furious if I'm not thanked by somebody or they're not wearinh hi viz - I know enough about horses to see that you can take your hand off the reins and say thanks without falling off! Also I find the people who are bouncing around are more likely to thank you! The other day I passed a plodding cob (dark coloured, under very dark shade on a bright day, right outside the yard it presumably lived at) and got no acknowledgement at all from the rider. Then met a very bouncy arab, hi vized up, who was full off thanks as she skedaddled past!
 
I always say that I was blessed and touch wood the old boy was so 500% traffic proof even when weee wah came flying past on a bend and if he wasnt so traffic proof we would have been goners...Did not bat an eyelid! As if nothing had happened. My dreadful friends would deliberately bib their horns to try to make him react....Nothing! I know I was very lucky but as soon as his feet hit tarmac he was so comfortable on the road.

Anyhow yes some car drivers should slow down a lot more(I usualy stick my stick right out ) and yes I have been clipped by a wing mirror etc etc

However as much as possible a horse should be excellent on the road if its going on the road no ifs or buts.

After I bought my boy the previous owner who was bringing on a very young cob rang me to ask for him back. I knew she would need him to help her accompany youngster out to get use to the traffic.

So that is why I am making such a big fuss to buy a horse that is excellent in traffic.
My sister cob if it didnt go down a high street very often she would get silly(horse not sister) and every now and again she would take her to keep her ticking over with parked cars etc etc. Horse was then fine. Desensitised.

Now my old boy was not perfect once we hit the fields and I would arrange to meet another rider whose horse had brakes on as I knew he wouldnt tank off. so he was by no means perfect in every aspect.

Practice practice etc etc even if someone has to lead you on the ground. Try and go at quiet times. Ask a friendly farmer if you can go to his yard to visit anything to let the big vehicles seem a normal occurance etc etc etc
 
i agree to an extent.. pony is fine but i still get very angry with cars and drivers.. even if the pony is fine.. because what if something else happened? horse spooks at something in the hedge/pavement/garden? thats why i get angry! not so angry i wind the horse up.. most of the time she just walks happily along while i shout and the **** who just passed 8 inches from my stirrup! or shot passed at 30mph
 
Ooh its tough one isn't it?

I have an absolutely bombproof 9as much as a livign thing ever can be) pony, have owned her for 13 years, she has taught many children to ride, and been lead rein first ridden and also my general riding pony. Someone asked me if their daughter could ride her to 'build her confidence' so trying to be helpful, I said of course!

Child rode her twice before I had to put a stop to it, pony was walking down the road snorting at everything! So I fully agree that it can be as much the riders fault.

However, one of my horses is bombproof, the other isn;t, but is good in traffic. I am usually confident enough, but the less bombproof one has knocked my confidence a little, so now, if I feel him getting nervous (and therefore possibly unerving me) I get off and lead him for a bit, settle us both down, then get back on again.

I only ride him on the road alone if I am on my way back from a good relaxed hack. I had a van speed passt me and bip the horn as he drew alongside. Horse didn;t react at all - hes good in traffic, I was more concerend about him spooking at something in the hedge and spooking into the road in from of a very fast oncomeing van!
 
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