Riding school - having to give the horses a good boot??

[stacey87]

Hi,

I'm completely new to riding only been riding about a month and half i'm currently learning to canter as my sitting and rising trot are coming along very nicely, I do like my riding school and my instructor is very good but i just have an issue with constantly being told to give them a right whack or bootful to get them going. I know riding school horses are different to say an everyday none riding school horse, it's just i don't want to eventually get a share or something and end up flat on my face because your everyday horse doesn't need a bootful to get going. I would just really like to be told how to ride with light leg pressure and instructing the horse what i want them to do instead of putting the boot in or using my whip. I also have the issue that when steering i'm only being taught to use my reins not my legs?? Is anyone else having these issues?? What can i do to change this? I just really want to learn to ride properly and not just use brute force to get them moving!!
Any advice would be muchly appreciated


stacey.

 

[9tails]

I don't think your riding school is much cop unfortunately. Yes, riding school horses are generally a lot more forgiving of rider error but they shouldn't need booting or whacking to get going. They sound completely sour.

 

[stacey87]

This is what i thought!!! I know there more forgiving but i really hate having to give them a boot or whipping to get them going, i was hoping to be taught PROPERLY with instructing the horse, using leg pressure and so on, i really want to learn properly. Maybe someone might know of a good riding school or a freelance instructor that has there own horses they use around the Bedforshire area preferably near to Shefford or Clophill???
Thanks for your reply though

 

[Booboos]

I think if you really want to learn properly you need to commit to a couple of years of lessons on the lunge with no stirrups/reins on a well schooled horse. This will allow you to develop a feel for how to ride the horse and the correct position so that you do not need to kick or whack a horse.

Unfortunately if you sit on a more receptive horse off the lunge as a beginner things are not likely to go well. The slightest weight change on your part will be interpreted as an aid by the horse and you may find the horse is doing all sorts of things you didn't think you asked for.

 

[stacey87]

I completely understand where your coming from but the point i'm trying to figure out is if i should be schooled that i need to give them a whack or bootful to get them going even if there not that receptive i thought i should be taught to use leg pressure and give the horse an instruction, not brute force. I know that things would be different with a receptive horse as they respond to different movements but i just don't think its right i'm being taught like this surely i should be taught properly. Thanks for the replys though

 

[webble]

I completely understand where your coming from but the point i'm trying to figure out is if i should be schooled that i need to give them a whack or bootful to get them going even if there not that receptive i thought i should be taught to use leg pressure and give the horse an instruction, not brute force. I know that things would be different with a receptive horse as they respond to different movements but i just don't think its right i'm being taught like this surely i should be taught properly. Thanks for the replys though

No its not right and yes you should be taught properly if I were you I would look for a different school

 

[MadBlackLab]

Sound like horse is sour and needs a holiday or new career. I think you need to find a new riding school that doesn't teach riders to boot the horses cause one day it could cause an accident on the wrong horse

 

[stacey87]

Yeah I'm looking for a new school for both reasons of I hate giving them a boot I feel awful and I don't want to end up in an accident because of it, I've put up a thread to see if anyone knows of a good school round my way am also going to look at a couple and watch some lessons. She's a lovely horse as well I think she'd benefit from a career change bless her
Thanks everyone

 

[Kungfoo-hamster]

I have sent you a personal message

 

[p87]

I agree with everyone who says find a new riding school. What you will eventually find is if you put up being taught to ride harshly, one day you will get on a decent horse and have no idea how to ride it. After years of riding sour school ponies who detested their working life I had to essentially learn to ride all over again. The difference is amazing.

 

[MadBlackLab]

I agree with everyone who says find a new riding school. What you will eventually find is if you put up being taught to ride harshly, one day you will get on a decent horse and have no idea how to ride it. After years of riding sour school ponies who detested their working life I had to essentially learn to ride all over again. The difference is amazing.

Very true^^^^^^

Its like you learn to drive then once you past test you learn to properly drive

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I really don't think you have to go to the extreme of riding on the lunge for two years to learn to ride properly. What a notion, who would ever bother to learn?

If you find a decent riding school and some well schooled horses you will rapidly learn the correct way to ride. It will probably incorporate some lessons on the lunge. But if you find one that suggests you stay on the lunge for the next two years, I would save your money and go elsewhere.

Well done you for recognising that what you are being asked to do to these poor sour working horses, is not the way to learn or to treat any horse. I hope you soon find a more reputable riding school.

 

[Elsiecat]

If you like your instructor could you perhaps find a part loan and ask your instructor to teach you on this horse?

 

[ANP Lincs]

I have only been riding a comparatively short time also, although I have had the (luxury?) of being able to ride three different horses and it has been quite interesting and in my opinion useful, to observe how some react better than others.

Luckily the riding school I use is highly regarded locally and their horses all seem 'happy at work'.

I was started with a lovely cob, who certainly doesn't need whipping into action, small squeeze, light kick only if you need it, and is very forgiving of learner error. As I was getting on quite well with her, I was moved onto a slightly larger TB (dressage trained and extensively competed). Steep learning curve! He will only do what you want if 'asked' in the correct manner - which I considered useful to learn. As the instructor said 'there's no point learning everything on a 'push button pony', and then thinking you can ride anything'... fair comment in my opinion...

Luckily I also occasionally get the chance to hack out on another cob, who responds better to the leg than the rein and also has a lovely bouncy trot - so much so, when I went back to the school cob, I was waiting for the 'lift' that never came ....

As other posters have commented, it is nice that someone early in their riding career can already appreciate the potential issues that being 'over heavy handed' can bring in the future.

For my part I was told once 'don't be afraid to kick harder/use whip when required, the pony isn't made of glass - but always remember there's a time and place and they shouldn't need it all the time'

Wise words?

 

[Rolffy]

Stacey, I returned to riding lessons after a very long break and was really disappionted to find that nothing had changed in terms of being taught as you describe. I too know that I'm not being taught to ride correctly but good riding schools seem to be really hard to find. Not wanting to highjack your thread but if anyone could recommend and good riding school in the south northamptonshire area I would really appricate it

 

[splashgirl45]

how about finding somewhere with a mechanical horse? i had been riding for many years and had my own horse and, when i started to do some dressage i realised i was riding crooked and needed a refresher. i booked a course with a local instructer who has a mechanical horse and found it really helpful, so may help you to learn to sit properly and use the correct aids without worrying about the horse.. i would definately recommend....

 

[stacey87]

My instructor has told me that I'm one of the lucky ones who naturally sits in a great position with good posture it's just the fact of only being taught to ride with kicking and whipping constantly and hearing "give her a proper boot" I know sometimes you have to be firmer but only when required in my eyes! I'm just trying to find a good school as a lot of you say they are hard to find especially as I live out in the sticks which you'd think was better for schools lol just not great ones so far. I would love to ride and just give a little squeeze and a little kick when required that's how I thought it'd be ANP Lincs I wish I had your experience thanks again everyone you've all been great with your response fingers crossed I find somewhere to teach me

 

[Booboos]

I really don't think you have to go to the extreme of riding on the lunge for two years to learn to ride properly. What a notion, who would ever bother to learn?

Fairly popular way of learning to ride in the continent. By those who use it it is considered the best way to develop a seat and feel for a horse without picking up bad habits from an unbalaned animal.

 

[MasterBenedict]

Just to play devils advocate and look at it from the other point of view.....

I used to teach at a riding school and I think it's great that you want to learn properly without compromising the horses welfare. HOWEVER, I distinctly remember a handful of clients that were just sooooo gentle with their aids that when I asked them to give the horse a 'boot' (for lack of a better term) they would give the horse an aid which I would not consider to be detrimental or harsh. I am not saying that I agree with the pony club style kicking and booting that has been discussed here, but take a look at your aids - do you tend to just 'tickle' the horse with your legs or do you really mean it when you give your aids? Riding school horses are notorious for ignoring riders that they don't feel like they mean it.

If you like the instructor and the yard in general why not try bringing this up with them in a lesson and ask exactly WHY they want you to be stronger with your aids? Their reply should help you easily decide if they have the horses welfare in mind.

 

[stacey87]

I do see what your saying masterbenedict and yes I may be a little gentle sometimes but when I'm being made to kick harder and harder and having "if you don't give her a bootful I'll come over there myself and slap her on her arse" shouted concerns me!!! I do like my instructor she does know her stuff she's just very hands on shall we say and I do worry about the appearance of the horses there not under weight just look a bit tatty I know there not loved pets like most peoples horses but they could do with some TLC. I know my aids could do with some more I mean it but when I feel like I'm slightly beating the horse I don't want to mean it but if I was being taught properly and felt like the horses welfare was priority my mean it aids would be I mean it as I would feel better if you see what I mean I do know what you mean though but I just don't think the horses welfare is priority anymore it probably was when they started but it doesn't look like it now

 

[Skib]

O Happy learners who do find a teacher who gives lunge lessons month after month (plus a little freedom to wander unattached). My OH and grand daughter both learned that way. It is expensive as it takes a long time and it is a priviledge to be taught by someone so skilled.

That is not the way most beginners are taught in the UK. Because there are mile stones by which to measure progress and there is pressure to meet them - walk trot and canter as soon as possible, so the student can qualify to join a class or go on hacks. Beginners may well be taught by the least experienced teachers who will do it by the BHS rule book as they are taking or have just taken their Teaching Test.

By all means leave your present school and go off in search of a better teacher and more sensitive horses. But understand that there are different approaches to teaching riding, and the mass produced product is designed to help as many people as possible learn to ride in a perfectly routine manner.
There is a very good book on learning to ride Getting the Most from Riding Lessons by Michael Smith which describes the different horses and ponies allocated in the lessons and how one's riding and cues may need to vary according to the horse and its own particular ways. As a long term riding school /trail ride rider my priority when handed a horse is to ride it in the manner I am told. The owner or instructor knows what each horse is used to.
No, I dont like kicking a RS horse but on the first meeting it may be necessary as an initial message - after which a tiny cue may gain significance. It is called "intent". I would of course prefer you to find a brilliant riding teacher, but as someone who started my own learning in a BHS routine - I can reassure you that nothing you learn will be wasted. Nor your time in the saddle. One can always progress to specialist teachers, classical lunge lessons or more sensitive horses. I thought of it a bit like moving on from GCSE to A levels.

 

[MadBlackLab]

I do see what your saying masterbenedict and yes I may be a little gentle sometimes but when I'm being made to kick harder and harder and having "if you don't give her a bootful I'll come over there myself and slap her on her arse" shouted concerns me!!!

This would concern me too. Shows no respect for the horse's welfare. I've seen instructors slap a horse on the arse with bad consequences

 

[MasterBenedict]

This would concern me too. Shows no respect for the horse's welfare. I've seen instructors slap a horse on the arse with bad consequences

Hmmm me to - not pleasant seeing one of my colleagues get a broken knee from a Shetland who decided she got to close in a lesson and got defensive.....no doubt wondering if it was going to 'get a smack' (hadn't been with us long, came from another school and my colleague only went up to it to help adjust the stirrups!) Dread to think where the kick would have landed had it been a bigger horse....


OP, in that case I would look for somewhere else where you feel more at ease about the horses care and the teaching methods

 

[p87]

Hmmm me to - not pleasant seeing one of my colleagues get a broken knee from a Shetland who decided she got to close in a lesson and got defensive.....no doubt wondering if it was going to 'get a smack' (hadn't been with us long, came from another school and my colleague only went up to it to help adjust the stirrups!) Dread to think where the kick would have landed had it been a bigger horse....

I went up to help a rider with her stirrups in a riding school and got kicked in the back. Horse was quite a big cobby type, extremely lazy, and as I hadn't been there very long didn't 100% know the horses personality. I halted the rider in the centre and walked over, and luckily I saw the kick coming just in time to turn slightly and got the kick in my back. Still ended up in A&E, but had I not turned it could have been so much worse.

When I returned to work everyone was like "Oh yeah, he always does that, didn't you know?" Erm... I do now... cheers guys! 8 years later my back still gives me grief everyday.

 

[Booboos]

I do see what your saying masterbenedict and yes I may be a little gentle sometimes but when I'm being made to kick harder and harder and having "if you don't give her a bootful I'll come over there myself and slap her on her arse" shouted concerns me!!!

While there is a small chance your instructor will get kicked doing this, it's hardly a welfare issue! If you are that concerned with horse welfare you will be much better going the lunge lessons route because by far the worst thing for a horse is the unbalanced weight of a beginner rider on its back. Inevitably your weight will be all over the place, which will put pressure on the horse's back, one of its most sensitive areas, much worse than any kick you could deliver at this stage. If you do sit on a more sensitive horse you are likely to give too strong a leg aid, the horse will move forwards suddenly unbalancing you and, completely understandably like most beginners, you will use your hand to balance, wacking the horse in the mouth. That is all a lot worse than a kick. There is a reason riding schools keep very ploddy, switched off horses, and that is because beginners need them.

The other thing you will need to learn is reacting quickly to the horse, so if the horse is unresponsive to a light aid you must immediately do something about it. You will see people like Carl Hester demonstrating this, light aid, no reaction, quick boot, allow the horse to go forwards. If you give light aid, nothing happens, another light aid, nothing happens, another light aid, nothing happens, etc. you are not doing the horse any favours - you are merely desisitising it to the aids so that it will need an even stronger aid to get it going in the end.

 

[paddi22]

if someone is only riding month or so, i'd imagine they have just had a handful of lessons. I would completely understand why they would get put on a plod. If a complete beginner is put on a horse that is responsive to a squeeze then it's too easy for the horse to take off into canter/too fast trot if the beginner gripped or bounced legs against the side. Anyone I've seen beginning riding (naturally!) is unbalanced and doesn't have the correct control of their legs. As another poster said, what feels like a boot to a beginner is often much lighter in reality as they don't have the correct muscle control in place to really give a sharp aid in the correct place. If I owned a riding school and I had a good schoolhorse who would go with a light tap, then I wouldn't stick a beginner on it as it's mouth would get destroyed by someone who hadn't grasped contact yet and would be using the reins to balance at times. I'd def start every beginner on a plod and then upgrade them once the had some basics in place.

Saying that I have several friends who are from abroad and they all had their first month or so of lessons on the lunge. It definitely stood to them because all of them have fantastic seats and are lovely riders.

 

[Booboos]

I'd also wonder where RS are supposed to find horses that are sensitive to the leg but dead to the mouth because getting the horse going is one thing, stoping it quite another! A horse with a sensitive mouth can only be stoped with a half-halt which is primarily a movement done with the seat and legs and not with the hands - what chance does a beginner have of performing a subtle half-halt?

 

[Gloi]

These horses will weigh you up the second you get on them. If they know that you are reluctant to give them a harder kick if they ignore lighter aids they will take advantage of it and put in minimal effort. If you start off as if you mean it and are strong when they ignore your aids you may well find that you will then be able to use lighter aids for the rest of the lesson.

 

[*hic*]

Get your instructor to show you just how hard you should be using your legs, then ask her to show you how the pony goes when she rides it. I'll bet he's just a good RS pony who knows when to ignore his rider.

 

[Penumbra]

I do see what your saying masterbenedict and yes I may be a little gentle sometimes but when I'm being made to kick harder and harder and having "if you don't give her a bootful I'll come over there myself and slap her on her arse" shouted concerns me!!! I do like my instructor she does know her stuff she's just very hands on shall we say and I do worry about the appearance of the horses there not under weight just look a bit tatty I know there not loved pets like most peoples horses but they could do with some TLC. I know my aids could do with some more I mean it but when I feel like I'm slightly beating the horse I don't want to mean it but if I was being taught properly and felt like the horses welfare was priority my mean it aids would be I mean it as I would feel better if you see what I mean I do know what you mean though but I just don't think the horses welfare is priority anymore it probably was when they started but it doesn't look like it now

This does sound concerning. I learnt to ride at riding schools and I would say most of the owners did treat their horses like well loved pets. Obviously they had to work for their living but I do think all the YOs did care about their horses, and if you don't get this feeling from the school it would concern me, more than being told to give horses a boot. I worked at a riding school/trecking centre over the summer, and the owner and her daughter genuinely loved all the horses there. It may be a bit unusual in that a lot of horses were homebred, but I just wanted to show that places like this do exist.

I do think masterbenedict is right that sometimes you have to encourage people to be firmer with the leg. Some beginners will sometimes swing their leg and not actually make contact with the horse's side, for example. However, I think there are better ways to do this than encouraging you to give the horse a boot. It is a lot better to develop a strong, firm leg that does not really move away from the horse's side. This will get the horse moving forward better, as you are not taking the leg off, and it is better for your balance imho.

I don't agree you need to spend years on the lunge (although I think occasional lunge lessons are beneficial), but I do think learning to canter is best done on the lunge as you can develop your seat/balance first, without having to worry about keeping the horse going.

ETA: I also agree you don't want a really forwards horse at this stage in your riding career. These will often overreact to all your aids, and could really scare you. In my experience, off the leg horses are also very sensitive to weight aids and hand aids, and you do not want a horse that does things you haven't asked because you have slightly lost your balance etc.