RIP Peg - horse kicked and got its leg broken - and a question

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Ranyhyn

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First of all, RIP Peg. A beautiful new chestnut mare to the yard got kicked this morning, sadly had to be put down. :(

And a question, how do you view this incident? Is it viewed as "par for the course" with horses or does it ring alarm bells in your head?

I will say I'm apoplectic about it all and my horse will be kept in until she can be moved home, likely in the next 2 days, which might very well seem to be a crazy overreaction on my part. But personally we don't NEED to take the risk, we have our own land and stables and it's not worth risking her for the sake of being at livery.

But I get the impression a lot of people chalk this up to "horses being horses" but in my mind horses (generally speaking) don't scrap like that if there's enough room, food and if they are introduced really well.

Your thoughts on this please?
 
It's really quite difficult to give any kind of opinion without knowing the details, all we know is a horse got kicked.

Personally I'd put it down to a tragic accident and horses being horses. I know the fact that it's a new horse seems to make it more tragic but these things do happen. My horse got kicked quite badly once just from them hooning about in the field and kicking their heels up. It is horrible, but it does happen.
 
When you say "scrap like that" do you mean enough to kick something and break it's leg? Or were you there and watching it?

I'd say its very sad, and definately something that can happen when keeping horses. Scraps can easily escalate in a herd. Horses are often fed up and irritable in the hot wea ther that we have had lately. It could have been a badly aimed kick at a fly, or the horse that got kicked could have been itching itself on the one that kicked and annoying it. There are many reasons. The thing about keeping domestic horses is that they have shoes on, so can do more damage with a kick than a wild horse.

We could keep all horses in isolation, or individual small paddocks, but I'd rather take my chances and keep my horses in herds. In 25yrs with horses I've not known any fatalities. A few nasty kicks, but nothing that wasn't got over.

You've just been unlucky...xx
 
I think injuries are something you accept if you have more than one horse in together. Ours have enough food etc, had all been out together for months, in a huge field. Came down one morning to find mine had been kicked in the head, suspected fractured jaw, all kinds of drama. Now I have my two in together with no others - but I accept that part and parcel of that is the risk one will injure the other. Horses get hurt if you turn them out together with shoes on, such is life. If one chooses to avoid that risk (as I did for many years with my horse), then that's fine, but it requires individual turnout. And make no mistake, there are a myriad other ways in which a horse in a flat field with perfect fencing will find to injure itself. I just have good insurance and the attitude that there is no point in wastig energy on the what ifs or the things I can't control. C'est la vie.
 
Firstly I'm sorry to hear about the loss of Peg, always a shock and tragic when a horse is lost suddenly like that.

Sadly with the best will in the world accidents happen, I do believe we have to minimise risks wherever possible, but at the same time not all accidents can be prevented.

There are horses that can break legs out hacking, but it doesn't mean we stop going out, it's part of the course with horses.
 
Freak accident.
In 16 years + at a RS, we had ONE horse kick another and it had to be PTS. These horses did have a large field, plenty of grass and had all been out for 5+ years together.

It was unfortunate as the horses had been turned out after breakfast and on their way away from the gate when it happened.

What are your thoughts on why the scenario happened at your yard - with regards to space, food etc? x RIP Peg.
 
How terrible, her poor owner must be beside herself. Its always something I really worry about with my old girl. She is kept on a farm and they just open the gate and stick new horses in - half the time we don't even get told new ones are arriving :( Mine is 28, full of arthritis and partially sighted so she doesn't see it coming, let alone be able to get out of the way in time. Last year a young TB battered her after a few days (and we had done our best to introduce it over a fence for a couple of days). Luckily I was able to treat it myself or I would have been £500 down (two separate incidents) just for the excess but the vet said I was incredibly lucky the hock joint wasn't breached. It doesn't help that she is unusually friendly and actually goes over to welcome newbies, rather than chase them off, so they sometimes misinterpret her approach and put the boot in. Luckily the latest arrival was glad to meet a friendly face, and is totally besotted and protective. We have one in there that is a right bully and runs new ones ragged. I dread to think what he would do if he caught his victim.
 
A bit of both really. Horses will be horses and we could wrap them in cotton wool and keep them in solitary padded cells and they still might well manage to kill or maim themselves. However, I have been on yards in my earlier horsey years where many horses were deemed accident prone and not a week went by without a vet having to come to the yard. In hindsight it was because there were far too many shod horses turned out in big groups in small fields with dangerous fencing separating them. We do need to do what we can to avoid accidents and injuries within reason IMO, and that mainly means being careful about turnout arrangements.
 
The same thing happened to ny beautiful girl 6 weeks ago and its terrible! she was only out with onw other horse and had been out with it for about 6 months happily! My new horse is in paddock herself and im very reluctant to put her in with others.
 
Years ago i know two horses best best friends never a cross word then one horse kicked out in high spirts and broke the other horses leg it was very sad the horse that kicked pined for his friend for weeks and lost loads of weight and was never the same so horses are horses and sometimes dont mean to hurt. But do understand your worry if i could id wrap all mine in cotton wool but just cant
 
This is really sad news , especially for the owner . I can totally understand your reaction to this , i take it there's a reason that you don't already keep yours at home and i also think that some yards just simply don't have the amount of acreage needed for the amount of horses. I know of some that are on a postage stamp size plot winter and summer , god i just wouldn't want it for mine, that's how accidents like this happen , and sadly for some there's no way out.
 
One of my two horses (which have been kept together for the last 10 years) went in to horse hospital for 12 days leaving the other horse at home alone. When horse returned from horse hospital the horse left in the field laid in to her big time and it took about 10 days for them to calm down.
Therefore when introducing any new horse to an existing herd there is the potential for injuries to occurr.
 
In my opinion the reasons at my yard could be
1) no introduction policy
2) not enough grass left in field
3) too many horses in the field

With regards to "like that" I mean to say that my OH who went to see Clover this morning instead of me said the offending mare's back end was covered in blood - not as if it was a glancing kick but a proper back up repeated booting. I know thats all supposition, but I can't imagine how the offending mare would be covered in blood otherwise.
 
I think its more feeling like it could have been avoided by proper introduction, more space and more grass. Feels like a senseless loss that could have been avoided? I guess we'll never know!

As to why she's not at home she was due to come home anyway just needed a few things in place first, but now I wont take the chance, she'll be moved home and properly introduced to her fieldmate and have adequate grazing :)
 
No of course but feeling you have done everything surely lightens the blow - rather than a "what if" or "I wish I'd done more"?

Ie: wearing hi viz vs not wearing hi viz - some people say accidents happen but I'd much rather take every precaution to stop them happenning than leave it in the lap of the Gods :) maybe thats just me but then I'm lucky to have 25 acres at home which she can be moved to and at least I wont get strange horses moved in every month without warning :)
 
My horse fractured in radius in January, he was in a 10 acre field with 3 others, and loads of grass ( even for that time of year). The messed about and he was in wrong place at the wrong time. Thankfully he survived it and is in full work now but accidents happen.

Oh and be a bit careful about 'implying' fault on the internet, wouldn't be hard to work out who you are and where you are from,.
 
How very very sad, my old boy had a fight across a fence with his ' best' friend.

Luckily the other horses owner was there and managed to break it up, but they had been friends to the point of crashing around if the other was taken away.

It nis a sad fact that horses do fall out and even though they are big and strong with hard feet, a kick in the wrong place can be devastating.

Hugs to pegs owner and RIP
 
Many years ago I lost a horse in circumstances like this. I was very cross because my requests for them to be introduced properly were ignored, and so an accident that COULD have been avoided, happened and my horse was pts due to a smashed hock.

Accidents can/do and will happen with horses, especially horses that are shod, but when a new horse is introduced, extra care needs to be taken. If it wasn't, and this routinely happens, then it would not be the sort of place I would keep my horse.
 
I think accidents can happen but I do also think that you have to be careful with certain 'characters' when introducing a new horse to an established herd and take the necessary precautions in each new scenario. I have seen a mare belt the hell out of another mare and literally kick her to the ground (Twice I witnessed it) so sometimes it can be a full on beating, at other times it can be a simple misplaced kick that causes a freak injury, even in play. It could be any number of things that triggered the mare to lash out like that. Sometimes Mares can be worse when they get a bee in their bonnet.

Such a shame for the mare who lost her life today though.
 
Flame_ said:
A bit of both really. Horses will be horses and we could wrap them in cotton wool and keep them in solitary padded cells and they still might well manage to kill or maim themselves. However, I have been on yards in my earlier horsey years where many horses were deemed accident prone and not a week went by without a vet having to come to the yard. In hindsight it was because there were far too many shod horses turned out in big groups in small fields with dangerous fencing separating them. We do need to do what we can to avoid accidents and injuries within reason IMO, and that mainly means being careful about turnout arrangements.
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This kind of echoes where I am - of course you cannot stop all chance, but by reasonably minimising risks surely you are doing your upmost?

It's a horrible freak accident and I feel like crying for the owner who'd waited for a while to come to the yard and had only been on for a matter of weeks. Lovely girl and lovely mare and feel so sorry for her loss. I am only glad it wasn't mine which is a terrible thing to say I know.
 
My horse got kicked on the head through the fence and concussed. The horse that booted him was his best friend and they were only apart as one needed more grazing than the other. Luckily he recovered fully and I did eventually (and carefully) put them back out together and they were fine. Sadly these things do happen, though I wish they didn't. Poor Peg. :(
 
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BoolavogueDC said:
In my opinion the reasons at my yard could be
1) no introduction policy
2) not enough grass left in field
3) too many horses in the field

With regards to "like that" I mean to say that my OH who went to see Clover this morning instead of me said the offending mare's back end was covered in blood - not as if it was a glancing kick but a proper back up repeated booting. I know thats all supposition, but I can't imagine how the offending mare would be covered in blood otherwise.
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It sounds to me as if you have a pretty good idea of what may have caused this to happen. Not enough grass and too many horses are bad, but a livery thinks it isn't safe they could choose not to be there. A lot of yards just chuck new horses out in existing herds and personally I think that's pretty irresponsible.

Sadly, blood on the other mare's hind end could be caused if an artery severed, for example, but mares do sometimes go hammer and tongs at each other. I don't think you should blame the surviving horse though, it really is "horses being horses" and, you don't know which horse instigated the fight.

Very sad.
 
BoolavogueDC said:
First of all, RIP Peg. A beautiful new chestnut mare to the yard got kicked this morning, sadly had to be put down. :(

And a question, how do you view this incident? Is it viewed as "par for the course" with horses or does it ring alarm bells in your head?

I will say I'm apoplectic about it all and my horse will be kept in until she can be moved home, likely in the next 2 days, which might very well seem to be a crazy overreaction on my part. But personally we don't NEED to take the risk, we have our own land and stables and it's not worth risking her for the sake of being at livery.

But I get the impression a lot of people chalk this up to "horses being horses" but in my mind horses (generally speaking) don't scrap like that if there's enough room, food and if they are introduced really well.

Your thoughts on this please?
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This is really sad. Poor poor mare. The owner must be heartbroken.

The way I view it depends upon what steps were taken to introduce this mare to the others and whether it was therefore a case of poor management.

I have been on yards where new horses are simply thrown in with the herd, or given only a day or two next to the others and then not watched closely. That is poor management and if I were the owner, I would be seeking compensation, though I expect she would be covered (hopefully) by her insurance.

If the introductions were done well and this mare was given at least a week in an adjoining paddock and then watched closely for the first hour or so, then I would just say it was bad luck. These things happen. It's happened to me and it's happened to other people I know. But it really is very sad when it is so serious that a horse loses its life.

ETA you also have to weigh up the happiness of your horse and whether she will have equine company at home.
 
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Yes Wagtail we're off to find two companions for her this weekend, It wasn't meant to be this quick but I'm not taking any more unneccessary chances, the yard and people are lovely but i think I'd like it more on my own terms :)
 
BoolavogueDC said:
In my opinion the reasons at my yard could be
1) no introduction policy
2) not enough grass left in field
3) too many horses in the field

With regards to "like that" I mean to say that my OH who went to see Clover this morning instead of me said the offending mare's back end was covered in blood - not as if it was a glancing kick but a proper back up repeated booting. I know thats all supposition, but I can't imagine how the offending mare would be covered in blood otherwise.
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How awful! I would be demanding this horse be taken out of the herd and kept separately. I removed a horse from the herd because he was seen to repeatedly boot a new horse. (Luckily did no real damage as he has no shoes). He is now in his own paddock and everyone is happy, including him I might add. My own gelding had his hock broken by a playful kick in the field, but luckily after an operation and 6 months recovery, is completely sound.

Also, if there is not enough grass in the field then it will make horses very irritable and cross. Hay should be put in.
 
Considering the horse was new I would wonder at the introductions that were done. However I've seen a leg broken by a fairly "minor" kick between horses that had been turned out in the same massive field for years.
 
BoolavogueDC said:
Yes Wagtail we're off to find two companions for her this weekend, It wasn't meant to be this quick but I'm not taking any more unneccessary chances, the yard and people are lovely but i think I'd like it more on my own terms :)
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I don't blame you! I think I remember you posting about moving her home. Good luck. Sounds like you are best out of there. No way would I have my horse in with another that was capable of such violence.
 
I lost my old TB to a broken leg:( it happened overnight in the field and i went down in the morning to find her lying down with her hind leg snapped clean in 2:( the cause was a horse from neighbours field had got into mine, we don't know if my girl was kicked or if she had taken a nasty slip and fall, even the vet was shocked at the break but said it couldn't be said for sure how it happened.
So did i blame the other horse or her owners? no, one of my ponies had escaped into the neighbours field on more than one occasion, it was just pure bad luck that this awful accident happened to my girl. That said it didn't make it easier to cope with her loss at the time so i fully sympathise with Peg's owner.
 
traceyann said:
Years ago i know two horses best best friends never a cross word then one horse kicked out in high spirts and broke the other horses leg it was very sad the horse that kicked pined for his friend for weeks and lost loads of weight and was never the same so horses are horses and sometimes dont mean to hurt. But do understand your worry if i could id wrap all mine in cotton wool but just cant
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Mine are like this. They are attached to each other and call all time if one is missing but the gelding kept mounting the mare and she got sick of it and kicked him chipping a bone in his leg. He still loves her though :)
 
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