Rockley Farm and Navicular

[paulineh]

My mare was diagnosed with Navicular (via MRI) and now High Ring Bone (Via Xrays). To start with after treatment ,for the Navicular , to the joint she became 100% sound on the straight and only just noticable on the circle. She was happy on our forest tracks and the road and would trot for a short while. Over the last few months she has become more lame that out of the field she is lame even in walk. In the field she is happy, in very good condition and enjoying life but she does enjoy going out for a wonder around the village.

My vet feels that he has done all he can with joint treatment so she is now on one danilon a day.She has eggbar shoes on but this does not seem to be making any difference. I have now desided to take her shoes off and see how she gets on. Apart from being out on grass she is on a low sugar diet, only enough to put the supplements in.

I have heard of Rockley farm and would like to hear of any success stories of horses that have gone down there, with Navicular and Ring Bone and they have been able to help.

I will do everything I can for this mare.

 

[lachlanandmarcus]

I think you are heading in exactly the right direction, I'm sure Rockley experts will be along to give you the info, but a horse with navicular can't ever really recover with shoes on, as shoes Inherently force the navicular into an unnatural and weight bearing angle and role, remove the shoes and in basic terms you remove that issue or part of the issue and allow recovery to start. Good luck, hope it all goes well.

 

[Oberon]

She has eggbar shoes on but this does not seem to be making any difference.

With a diagnosis of navicular you will invariably find the horse has a weak and contracted frog and so heel area. Therefore the horse will be unable to land heel first as is generally agreed to be the correct way for a hoof to load.
So the horse lands toe first - which leads to excess pressure on the coffin bone and inappropriate leverage to the DDFT (hence lesions to the tendon).
This inappropriate leverage will eventually wear and damage the navicular bone (the lever that the DDFT uses).

In order to provide 'support' to the weak back part of the hoof, traditional measures include 'remedial' shoes such as egg bar and heart bars.

The use of such often provide some relief and comfort BUT this is patching the problem, not fixing it.

Hickman's Farriery (1994) states (as well as many other more modern texts) that weakness and dysfunction to the back of the hoof starts with the frog.

The frog is supposed to touch the ground and play a part in loading. When the frog is removed from the action long term, it will become weak, the heel will contract and the whole hoof can run forward.

Back in 1994, Hickman's Farriery recommended the use of 'remedial' shoes that provide some frog pressure such as heart bars with a frog support. The text even then, suggested egg bars were outdated and of little use for the treatment of navicular. I still ponder the reasoning behind their continuous use nowadays .

So this may explain why the egg bars are no longer helpful to your mare....

Getting back to barefoot rehab and Rockley - this method removes all barriers to the hoof and provides conditioning and strengthening to the problem areas - the frog and heels (which will have a knock on effect and sort the rest of the hoof....then the tendons....then the joints.....then the body.....

All barefoot rehab does this but Rockley is unique in that their specialised track system provides effective stimulation to the weak areas which equals efficient and rapid transformation ( a bit like boot camp for the hooves).

There are no guarantees and there will be work to do after Rockley in order to carry on healing, but if you speak to Nic she will tell you straight if she can help or not.

 

[Heelfirst]

Please tell me that they are NOT egg bars but in fact Hart bars.
Egg bars are no longer recommended for any foot problems, and have not been for some time.

 

[Oberon]

Please tell me that they are NOT egg bars but in fact Hart bars.
Egg bars are no longer recommended for any foot problems, and have not been for some time.

They are still used though. I can't work out why.

OP - you might be interested in Red's story whose owner is a member of HHO (Red was also in egg bars shoes in the beginning). I can put you in touch with Red's owner if you wish to ask her questions.....

http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/red-history-or-all-about-bar-shoes.html

http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/red-4-week-update.html

 

[paulineh]

I would love to talk to Red's owner. My mare is a sweety. I bought her nearly 10 years ago in very bad condition and it took me 8 months to gain her trust and although I had seen her being ridden she would rear up on me. She turned out to be a lovely Endurance Horse winning a lot for me. She just loves going out and all I want to be able to do with her now is hack her out in comfort.

Once I gained that trust she has been a lovely girl and I want to be able to help her further.

Heelfirst - unfortunately yes they are Eggbars. I now know that this was wrong

I have emailed Nic at Rockly Farm and hopefully she will be able to help.

 

[Oberon]

Heelfirst - unfortunately yes they are Eggbars. I now know that this was wrong

The frustration is not with you, the owner, but with the vets who continue to prescribe them and the farriers who continue to fit them .

 

[Leg_end]

Buddy went to Rockley in Nov after his Navicular diagnosis in Sept. His full story is on his blog below but we're sound, striding out over most surfaces and he came 2nd in hs first dressage with almost 68%

 

[ITPersonnage]

Have PMed OP, thanks Oberon BTW we're still making good progress with Red, can only reiterate that barefoot was defineatly the way forward for my mare, and that Rockley was a great help along the way, thank you again for the "shove" I needed.

 

[Oberon]

Have PMed OP, thanks Oberon BTW we're still making good progress with Red, can only reiterate that barefoot was defineatly the way forward for my mare, and that Rockley was a great help along the way, thank you again for the "shove" I needed.

T'was more of a gentle prod

I did nothing but answer your questions in the beginning. You were the clever one who thought to ask

Glad Red's doing well

 

[TPO]

Way back in 2009 I blindly attempted barefoot with my navicular mare. I knew nothing about barefoot so got an EP. Knowing what I do about it now I realise I was given the wrong advice and the trim received made the mare quite sore; I bought boots and pads to help her.

A matter of weeks later I moved to a solely equine practice believing this to be best for my horses. The head vet came out and told me that barefoot couldn't work and that navicular horses NEEDED shoes.

He " prescribed" wedged egg bars... I happily went along with this as the EP left my mare sore and here was a proper expert telling me that the barefoot approach would never work.

The mare was pts Nov 2009....

Even that wasn't enough, I lost another to the same thing in June 2010. The first mare had been bought unvetted by my mum and she must have been doped when we tried her so she came with it ( she was a halter bred QH so predisposed to it) but my other mare developed it while under vet and ( vet recommended) farrier attention.

It took a 'debate' with CPTrayes on here for me to see the light so brainwashed was I by the "experts"

I'd give anything to have my time again and think for myself instead of trusting any of these people.

I just wanted to post to wish you all the best with your mare and I utterly believe that you are doing the right thing. I only wish that I'd been aware of Rockley.

Please keep us updated

 

[paulineh]

TPO. I'm sorry to hear about both your horses.

As an endurance horse I always believed that I could not ride her without putting shoes on her due to the kind of courses we went over.

I have to admit that I trusted my vet and my farrier was only doing what he had been told to do. I continue to trust my vet and farrier but I have to do something for this mare.

I have been down the lines of drugs ,joint medication ,Eggbar shoes with and without wedges.

I have now had the reply to the email I sent Nic at Rockley. I will be discussing my mares case with him as I need him to refer her, and in the mean while she is having her shoes off on the 7th June.

 

[maggiesmum]

Tpo - I feel your pain, I retired my fantastic mare years ago with ddft damage, had I known then what I know now we could have had many years more fun together.
Dont be to hard on yourself though you did the best you could at the time with the information you had, but its those experiences that make us so passionate about our cause.

 

[ALO]

Mine was diagnosed with ddft damage via MRI Easter 2012. We briefly had wedges on, I had them taken off as wasn't happy and we went barefoot.
I was going to send him to rockley, even went down and visited but decided itry on my own first. We are now doing 2 hour hacks, dressage and I auto jump him again soon.
He also has a hock spavin and previous stifle injury so I wasnt optimistic in the beginning and neither was my vet.
I had a final vet check last week and he said he moving the best he's ever seen him, Im so pleased.

 

[Oberon]

I'd give anything to have my time again and think for myself instead of trusting any of these people.

We have a successful navicular barefoot rehab on our yard who has been sound for years now - yet there are two other navicular horses on the same yard facing bullets soon because they've "reached the end of the road" in 'remedial' shoes.

The ugly truth is that horses are still dying when the vets and farriers assure the owners that there is nothing more that can be done

No one suggests removing the shoes to these owners and when the owner suggests it themselves, they are shot down.

It reminds me of the chapter in Black Beauty, "Only ignorance."

 

[paulineh]

Thank you for all your replies, keep them coming.

As I have said I'm having her shoes off in 10 days and we will see how things go.

I have bought Nic's book so will read it from cover to cover. I will properly get her some boots for her front feet.I will also look more closely into her diet.

I know it will take time but she is worth it.

 

[Oberon]

Let me know if you need any online support, I'm available of you want to pm any questions.

 

[paulineh]

Thanks Oberon

 

[TPO]

We have a successful navicular barefoot rehab on our yard who has been sound for years now - yet there are two other navicular horses on the same yard facing bullets soon because they've "reached the end of the road" in 'remedial' shoes.

The ugly truth is that horses are still dying when the vets and farriers assure the owners that there is nothing more that can be done

No one suggests removing the shoes to these owners and when the owner suggests it themselves, they are shot down.

It reminds me of the chapter in Black Beauty, "Only ignorance."

Exactly!! I've (finally) changed vet practice and things are better in that respect as the new vet can see that my horse is sound and leaves me to get one with it. I had a run in with my (now ex!) farrier on Friday when they trotted out the old line about TBs not being able to be BF and how my horse "needs" shoes to protect his feet and thin soles. I pointed out that he has boots and pads that protect the whole foot and that the soles need stimulation to develop; this doesn't happen in shoes. All the farrier could focus on was this need for shoes and was extremely rude and unprofessional. Makes me shudder that they went on to put nails through a structure that they had no understanding of...

They seemed to think my TB would be better off like the other's with "TB feet" who actually have shod 'flippers' their feet are so bad with no heel and an extremely overgrown toe; it's disgusting and disheartening /

Only ignorance indeed...

Sorry for the hi-jack OP. I'm just so glad that your horse is getting given a chance

 

[Lancelot]

Op, my horse, Solar, went to Rockley in 2011/12 with a navicular/arthitis/sidebone diagnosis.
Last weekend we did our first dressage competition followed by a faster paced 8 mile hack 2 days later. He only had the day off in between as I needed to ride a horse that I share otherwise he would have been out then too! This weekend we hope to get to a fun ride and intend to return to better our dressage score next month

It really isn't easy, I had to learn tonnes, unlearn even more and we had small blips along the way but we're coming out the other side now! My biggest realisation was what a massive effect grass was having on my horse. Once I had come to terms with that things started to happen

Good luck & please feel free to PM if you want to know anything about Solars "journey".

 

[JandP]

CANNOT reiterate the barefoot option for 'navicular' enough, having been there and come through the other side.

Egg and heart bars really are the work of the bloody devil, how anyone can think that a horse's hoof has a hope of normal function therefore recovery when wearing these things is beyond me.

Such a shame so many vets still recommend them. The farriers seem to be seeing the damage they do now.

 

[Busybusybusy]

Rockley is fantastic! Paddy is there at the moment & his 'typical TB feet' have changed enormously. He was nerve blocked to the navicular area and I was advised to get him remedially shod or for him to be denerved. Ignored vets advice, took shoes off & sent him to Nic. Did manage to get vet to agree eventually though after putting forward a very good argument for this route & I believe I have made the best decision for my horse.
Have a read of the Rockley blog - its very informative & you can see all the changes that the various horses have made to their feet by undergoing this type of rehab.
Paddy's due back in a couple of weeks & I'm sure he'd rather stay on holiday in Devon!!
If you want to pm me please do I would be happy to chat to you on the phone if you want more info.
Emma xx

 

[paulineh]

Will do Emma

 

[WellyBaggins]

Following this thread with interest, my horse has been diagnosed with impar ligament strain and I am now out of his insurance having spent the 5k, is rockley expensive?

 

[Busybusybusy]

Following this thread with interest, my horse has been diagnosed with impar ligament strain and I am now out of his insurance having spent the 5k, is rockley expensive?

Rockley is approx £600 per 4 weeks and they normally stay there for 12 weeks. This breaks down as £75 ever week for livery and includes haylage & feed, and £75 per week for the rehab. I know I would probably not have been confident to rehab him at home, but there is no reason why it can't be done. The key is to ensure diet is right & keep an eye on the sugars in the grass, plenty of movement on surfaces that the horse is comfortable on & then when they are completely comfortable, move on to more difficult surfaces, starting in hand, then ridden. Roadwork is very good for them.

 

[WellyBaggins]

Thank you Bbb, I think he will have to be done at home, my grooms wage will sadly not stretch to that . He seems to be doing ok currently, toddles off to do more research!

 

[LD&S]

Rockley is approx £600 per 4 weeks and they normally stay there for 12 weeks. This breaks down as £75 ever week for livery and includes haylage & feed, and £75 per week for the rehab. I know I would probably not have been confident to rehab him at home, but there is no reason why it can't be done. The key is to ensure diet is right & keep an eye on the sugars in the grass, plenty of movement on surfaces that the horse is comfortable on & then when they are completely comfortable, move on to more difficult surfaces, starting in hand, then ridden. Roadwork is very good for them.

All mine are barefoot but just out of interest I wonder how £1800 (including feed and care) to get a horse healthy along with all the advice for future care compares to remedial shoeing and vets bills for years, seems like pretty good value to me.

 

[criso]

All mine are barefoot but just out of interest I wonder how £1800 (including feed and care) to get a horse healthy along with all the advice for future care compares to remedial shoeing and vets bills for years, seems like pretty good value to me.

When mine went there in 2010 it was £100 a week and actually cheaper than what I was paying for 5 day part livery in Herts!

However I also maxed out my £5000 of insurance before that point on traditional methods with no benefit at all.

 

[Leg_end]

All mine are barefoot but just out of interest I wonder how £1800 (including feed and care) to get a horse healthy along with all the advice for future care compares to remedial shoeing and vets bills for years, seems like pretty good value to me.

That's how I felt.. A mere drop in the ocean compared to long term costs! However it's having access to that funding and spare cash which I know isn't easy, especially if your insurance doesn't cover it

 

[j1ffy]

My PRE is another Rockley success story He went there in 2011 with navicular syndrome - thankfully I already knew about Rockley so as soon as the 'N' word was spoken I sent him straight there. 12 weeks later he was sound, and he's now on working livery with Los Alamos Riding in Andalucia and doing 4-5 hour rides on all terrains, up to 4 times per week.

I can't recommend Rockley highly enough. As per others, it was cheaper than the part-livery I was on in Berkshire and the care standard was far higher! I wish there were 'normal' livery yards like Rockley around