Wagtail
Horse servant
Obviously, like others, I am against Rollkur. But I am curious also, as to what it is supposed to achieve. Does anyone know? 
Here: http://everyrider.typepad.com/everyrider/2007/03/the_rollkur_deb.htmlRollkur teaches the horse to lower its head and round its neck as it works. Working "deep" so that the head is pulled inward. As in the picture to the left, in the extreme, the horse's mouth touches the middle of his chest. This hyper flexed state is held for a length of time, through work at the walk, trot, and canter, including shortening and extension of the gaits. Rollkur is not just longitudinal flexion (nose to chest), but also bending to the rider's toe. Most riders accomplish the head position by and fixing the hands in a low position until the horse yields its jaw. This is a response to pressure on the bit.
I discovered an interesting documentation of this method by Dr.Ulrike Thiel which demonstrates the technique through pictures. It is a critical documentation on the Hyper flexion/Rollkur method of riding and training horses. The scenes are taken out of a longer video documentation being published on 3 DVD's which demonstrate the practical use of this method by experienced riders. The short clips include eye opening visuals and very informative explanations of the phases of hyper flexion.
I have also included several links to articles on the subject that I found interesting over the past two years since this debate began. Below is the introduction to the documentation found on youtube. For the entire series please visit http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=ulrikethiel
Thanks. I'm still a bit puzzled though as horses can be trained to work deep and to flex and bend quite easily without using hyperflexion. I wonder if in fact, they use it so that when the horse is then worked normally, it is so comfortable and relieved, that it stops any resistance? Not nice though.
Leave the great big warmbloods to the men.![]()
This is all very interesting. Thank you. You never stop learning. Personally, most of my experience is with TBs and smaller warmbloods. I have never had the need to use extreme tactics and therefore could not for the life of me see what they could possibly achieve. Though I can appreciate that hyperflexion could legitimately be used in a dangerous situation, as a last resort, my view is that if you have a horse that is liable to tank off with you and which you cannot control through normal means, then you are over-horsed. Leave the great big warmbloods to the men.![]()
Thats probably a very naive view! Men and women can abuse RK, and it doesn't always mean they are overhorsed.
It is such a complex situation that has evolved over the RK that will take a long time to subside I fear. The problem is that very brief and well timed/thought out/executed hyperflexion does help release the back. All it is is an extreme stretch, which most athletes will incorporate into their training. But they need to be physically fit enough, warmed up sufficiently and know the precise time when they need to release the stretch .... the problem is in horses, hyperflexion is used too much and too early in a horses training, it's mostly used for the wrong reason, it's copied incorrectly and the poor damn horse has no real choice in when the hyperflexion needs to be released.
It has evolved from being a useful LDR exercise used in the right hands for the right reasons into an extended period of an unnatural forced position resulting in an incorrect way of going (that has historically been rewarded via judges - don't get me started on that!!) and a short cut to getting a horse up the levels or sold for more money. Very sad IMO.
Unfortunately any sport where money is involved will result in moral/ethical issues and this is one that our sport faces. It will take some brave individuals from FEI, governing bodies, judging panels to really stop giving out marks for horses that go so stereotypically RK. Once correctly trained horses are more consistently rewarded the RK culture will start to change.
IMO it's no different to the obese show horse culture we face here in our country
Well if there's one thing that will help shut down the use of Rollkur - it was the blinding performance of Team GB a few weeks ago. All 3 displayes tests full of self carriage, lightness, and their horses genuinely accepting the bit and working up and forward.
Charlotte managed to win with a few errors against Adelinde Crankyerheadin's foot pefect but tension riddled test.
And don't get me started on Yanky van Gruesome....
Well if there's one thing that will help shut down the use of Rollkur - it was the blinding performance of Team GB a few weeks ago. All 3 displayes tests full of self carriage, lightness, and their horses genuinely accepting the bit and working up and forward.
Charlotte managed to win with a few errors against Adelinde Crankyerheadin's foot pefect but tension riddled test.
And don't get me started on Yanky van Gruesome....
I'm afraid I don't see any circumstance where RK can be correctly used. Proper stretching should not involve pulling the horse's head to it's chest so that it cannot swallow. What ever happened to working a horse long and low over it's back? Then picking it up once the back is lifted?
I still feel inadequate at dressage comps as everyone seems tiny and seem to be on massive horses and here's me on my 15'2....
I believe that working a horse in hypereflexion also isolate and works a specific shoulder muscle which creates that high kicking can-can girl showy front leg action which seems to be so admired.
It has evolved from being a useful LDR exercise used in the right hands
Hyperflexion isn't LDR, though. I don't agree that it's right ever to deliberately use hyperflexion, with the horse's parotid glands squeezing out of the sides of its face. When it happened to mine it was momentary and unintended on my part.
Long deep and round is completely different, the horse has clear air between the base of his head and his neck. LDR is all stretch, hyperflexion is mostly compression and the stretch of the crest of the neck immediately behind the poll which it requires is unnatural and looks extreme.
As far as I am concerned the two bear no relationship to each other.
Hyperflexion isn't LDR, though. I don't agree that it's right ever to deliberately use hyperflexion, with the horse's parotid glands squeezing out of the sides of its face. When it happened to mine it was momentary and unintended on my part.
Long deep and round is completely different, the horse has clear air between the base of his head and his neck. LDR is all stretch, hyperflexion is mostly compression and the stretch of the crest of the neck immediately behind the poll which it requires is unnatural and looks extreme.
As far as I am concerned the two bear no relationship to each other.
RK is esentially just a more extreme form of LDR. .
Obviously, like others, I am against Rollkur. But I am curious also, as to what it is supposed to achieve. Does anyone know?![]()
RK is esentially just a more extreme form of LDR. The former being horse abuse, the latter having some benefit if used in the right situation with the right hands.
I'm just playing devil's advocate really and trying to answer the OP.