RORs - just thinking out loud

[HeyMich]

Hi All,

Wondering if I can pick the collective HHO brain and have some sense knocked into me please (if required)... The thread a couple of weeks ago about the buyer that never collected the horse (turns out it was an amazing retrained OTTB) got me thinking and now the cogs are whirring away...

I have a very keen 13 yr old son, who currently has the most amazing 14.1 super-pony. This season they've been doing SJ comps at 80/90, jumping 1m easily in lessons, and doing ODEs/HTs/Tet comps at 80 and 90. They even qualified for the Eland Lodge national HTs next year (which is a whole new kettle of fish as it's not the easiest to get to from Central Scotland!) and I'm the epitome of the proud, blubbing mum on the sidelines! Anyhow, I digress.... They're doing well at flatwork too (now that the penny has dropped), I wouldn't yet say he's capable of schooling a horse as such, but can ride really well and competently under instruction. He has regular flatwork/jumping lessons and is very active at PC, taking part in literally every rally this year, and winning all the trophies possible at PC cup day! He has dreams of doing BE next year, and is as keen as mustard to keep on working up the levels.

We keep the horses/ponies at home (currently have 4, possibly down to 3 soon), have miles and miles of offroad hacking (some needs to box a couple of miles to get to) and I'm always happy to hack on my big idiot beast to keep him company (weekends only at the moment, but evenings are fine when the light allows). We don't have an arena sadly (working on that project too!), we school/jump from April-September in the fields, then in winter we just have to do arena hires or borrow a neighbour's school (but not too often as I don't want to take the pee).

I reckon he's got 6 months at most on the super-pony before he is ridiculously too big. He's 5'8" already (very tall and skinny mind you, so weight isn't a problem), but he's starting to look like he's a folded up spider on board. He had a no stirrup lesson on Fri and I'm not kidding, his feet were down by the super-pony's knees! And that's another point, he has size 11 feet already - lots of upwards and outwards growing on the horizon methinks! Also, I should probably mention my daughter too - she's on a fat and fluffy 12.2hh still, and will gladly take up the reins of the 14.1 super-pony when the time comes - he won't be needing a new home for a long while yet.

Realistically, we'd be looking for a 16hh+ scopey, jumping eventer for son to progress onto within a year. Unfortunatley, we don't have that kind of budget. If we did have a spare 20k, we'd be spending it getting an arena installed! I work full time, so can't really spend the time bringing on a youngster, plus I'm not sure if I have that level of skill/confidence. The thing with him coming off ponies, is that the keep for 2-3 years and pass them on type mentality doesn't work. If we get a 16hh+ horse, it will be something we keep for 15-20 years. I would gladly hack and take to the occasional lesson/clinic/camp too, so I guess it needs to be ok to take my slightly larger rear end - I'm a tall 5'11" and weight 11.5-12 stone, covid-curves depending.

So, here's the question - would taking on a OTTB be a ridiculously easy solution to the inevitable problem? And if so, how do I go about it? If it is fresh from the track, I'm happy to let it down for 6 months and then bring it on slowly, with pro help if needed. I'd be happy and within my skills and confidence to long-rein, hack and lunge, but not re-back as such. Would it need as much work/reschooling as a youngster? Would we cope without a school during winter/spring? Would it be too much too soon for my son? I really don't want to burst his bubble and put him off forever! I know it's a how long is a piece of string type question, isn't it?

The suitability of a OTTB to our set-up is another question - we have about 5 acres of (currently wet and muddy) Scottish hillside, 4 stables and a nice big shelter - all the beasts currently live out 24/7 with rugs and hay but I bring in as and when needed. The only OTTBs I have known recently have had quite poor feet and have felt the cold quite easily - I know they are stereotypical TB problems, but valid concerns if I'm expecting them to live out 24/7.

So, any wise words of wisdom dear HHO? Any local-ish Central Scotland yards or ROR trainers I should make enquiries with? (ELF - any local/inside knowledge?) Am I being silly thinking we can do this with our limited land/facilities/knowledge? Should I just suck it up and look for a more expensive ready-made eventer?

Thanks all. It's actually quite cathartic just writing it all down, so I really don't mind if no-one reads to the end or has any wise words... but thanks if you do, it's appreciated.

PS, just realised how many brackets I have used in that thread (sorry!)
PPS (that was an ironic note in brackets, think I'm losing the plot!)

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Not a daft idea if you know you have the backing, understanding instructors etc behind you. I have had TB's live out 24/7/365 with adequate rugging and feed. Foot wise you will find that actually some do have decent feet! Mine don't wear shoes but then they don't do any work. You will probably need front shoes for working but you wouldn't need them over winter if you don't plan on riding much. Obviously every horse is different.

Some TB's will make the grade eventing others won't go beyond 100/Novice. But the same could be said for any horse.

There are quite a few trainers in Scotland and the borders aren't too far away either. I will drop you a Pm about them.

 

[ycbm]

I've kept ex racer TBs barefoot and even evented one BE, it can be done.

Yes they can take a lot of reschooling, some are worse than an unbacked horse because you can have bad things to undo. But I've found they were nearly all natural jumpers even though I bought flat racers.

The idea isn't ridiculous for a capable and confident young rider. I would just caution how many young people I've seen give up altogether when they fall to work out how to manage a horse instead of a bouncy pony. To swap to a TB which is likely to have flatter places is probably going to be a big change, but as long as he's up for learning how to do that, and winning competitions taking a back seat for up to a year, I'd say go for it.
.

 

[LEC]

Look to buy an older one who has had a good career and retired sound, they also tend to be better educated as been around longer but they are also used to a management system so swings and roundabouts. They tend to be tough warriors rather than about to fall apart at the seams like a lot of 3/4yos I see who have been wrecked by the system.

The problem is technically the flat bred TBs are more desirable for eventing as a blank canvas but my fundamental issue is that they are started at 1/2 years old which is why you see so much KS and suspensory issues.

Before I purchased I would want suspensorys scanned and back x rayed. Its not a signifier that they will stay sound but its a big tick.

 

[Goldenstar]

I don’t think it’s a silly idea at all .
A TB might event it might not just the same as any young horse of any type .
I still have a TB he’s with a friend hacking although to look at he was a perfect stamp competition work was just not for him .
He lived out quite happily and still does all year round he’s a very good doer now he’s mature as youngster he had hollow legs he just ate and ate .
You might get one that needs to stabled in bad weather you would need to factor that in .
Choose carefully get one with good feet that’s straight forward in its mind .

 

[I'm Dun]

I bought mine specifically to event. Hes sound and tough and moves well, his real love is jumping though and it was that that sealed the deal for me.

He lives out 24/7, the stables are open but he never goes in, unlike the wussy cob and native who like to park in there! Hes barefoot, and after a few months to rehab he hacks out with no issue, but I do keep boots as a back up. In another 6 months he will be fine over all surfaces I think. He lives on a track overnight and in the long grass in the middle most of the time, which works well with the fatties.

I do rug him heavily and hes fed hard feed, high oil and low starch etc, twice a day. He eats mountains of hay as well, hes a literal eating machine. I love it, Im a feeder at heart and have spent so long dieting cobs and natives its a delight! I do have 3 on 3 acres though, so feed more hay than most people. If I had decent grass and more acres he wouldnt need the hay.

Hes a delight to handle, I clip him stood loose for example, and he hacks out in heavy traffic without batting an eyelid.

I did get him as a 6yr old knowing hed raced a fair few times, retired sound and stayed sound for 2 yrs afterwards, so I tipped the balance in my favour. I also accepted that the likelihood of breaking was higher than with a normal horse. Theres risks with all horses though. I have spent the first few months rehabbing his feet and getting his body straight and strong, so that will hopefully mitigate a little bit.

I dont have a school either so school and jump on grass and hack for miles, alongside arena hire and lessons when its too dark and wet to ride in the field, so very similar set up.

Basically, I adore him and am thrilled to have stumbled across his ad.

 

[Peglo]

A friend of mine had a TB that would hack happily without any shoes. His feet were as good as any pony I’ve seen.
mine however didn’t have the best feet and pulled shoes the whole time. She also waits at the gate for hours every night in winter wanting in. She was especially grumpy this morning as the weather sounded horrible and I don’t think she fancied going out. ?

Someone had done a really good job of retraining her ( she had a longer racing career) and she could’ve done far more than I did with her but I was young and didn’t have much help. I don’t think it would be silly to consider a OTTB. ?

 

[criso]

The only thing I would wonder is how much patience your son would have to bring on a horse ( any breed not just tb) and not being able to go out and do stuff when his friends are. Ideally height permitting it would be good if he could get another season out if his current pony while bringing another on slowly in the background.

 

[Velcrobum]

I was going to say contact Elf on a shelf but she popped up quickly. I have a OTTB who had been well educated by his trainer ie stands at a mounting block, goes on the bit, hacks alone, bends, was taught to jump over coloured poles etc etc. Has an amazing temperament but did not want to race as the owner was in a hurry to get him on the track when he was still a very weak gangly 3 year old. He only raced 7 times had the ability and speed but really did not want to know. He is just a really cool dude. TB's can be brilliant but like any breed there are the saints and there are the looneys!

 

[EventingMum]

I don't think it's unreasonable, I know several OTTBs that have done really well eventing. In fact, one PC (L&R) family got a lovely young one last year for their daughter from what I've heard/seen on Facebook - you probably know them as they have a younger son still doing Tet. I'm not sure where they got him from though. I've heard there are some nice ones at Solway Racehorses and then there's Elf's employer and Jim Goldie who aren't too far away. Andrew Hamilton also sometimes has some - I had an older NH horse (12yo) from him and also a lovely young mare (5yo) - very different types but both really nice, the mare would definitely have evented. Good luck!

 

[TPO]

Mine have all had good quality hooves but the shape has needed sorted out. I kept 2 of my 3 ex racer TBs barefoot. The one with shoes I lost to navic and that's what kickstarted the bf thing.

I've never planned to have a TB out 24/7 but due to a whole host of stuff I ended up moving to a yard before they'd built my stables. This meant all horses lived out, well rugged with a big bale. It wasn't ideal because there wasn't adequate shelter although I was allowed to barn them when there was some end of the world type weather. The TB was none the worse for it and while he'd have preferred being in it did him no harm.

I had one mare who was tricky and extremely sensitive but I knew this when I bought her and gladly did so. My last TB was a dope on a rope most of the time and like an overgrown labrador. Sadly due to being started at 16-18mths and racing injuries he was a mess physically; despite having him vet checked but that's a whole other story about lying vets! He had a nap and a bit of a rear in him but he gave plenty of warning and there wasn't an ounce of badness in it. Once his confidence was built up he'd hack for miles.

Mum's last TB again was a gem under saddle. He was a bit more insecure and spooky to hack but again no badness at all.

All three of mine have had cracking paces and nice movement.

I know she's miles away from you but I bought my mare from Vici j Price (can't remember her married name. She was a user on here) and would recommend her 100% in regards to honesty when assessing and selling her horses.

I always say I'd never have an ex racer again because they are heart breakers. I do love them but racing does take such a toll on their bodies. As said above to consider one again I would have a very thorough vetting with scans and xrays for peace of mind.

You may find this time of year that you can pick up a useful 3 or 4yr old to start/get started in the spring. A blank canvas with a good trainer may be a better option physically if your looking for 10yr+ longevity forever horse.

 

[Carrottom]

In some ways a smallish tb (15-16 hh) can ride more like a pony. Quick reactions and nippy as opposed to a big moving warmblood.

 

[HeyMich]

Thanks everyone, lots of great insight and things to think about.

Would it be better to get one fresh off the track or one that has already started their reeducation? I understand that the training will add on extra costs whether it happens before or after we find the horse.

Is there a certain time of year that yards try to retire/rehome their horses (end of season for example), or does it happen all through the year?

So many questions! And so much to think about...

 

[I'm Dun]

Id go for one 6months to a year out of racing with the basics done. You know they stand up to work then, and the bits your son might find boring will be done, and he can crack on with the fun stuff.

 

[BronsonNutter]

I was a teenager coming off a superpony when I got my first exracer - and admittedly I did rush to push him as I wanted to be out competing etc, and also knew I only had a year with him before I was off to uni (he was meant to be sold but ended up getting sent back, and is still here, 11.5 years on…!). He did ok eventing in the end but is tricky mentally. Not dangerous and loads of fun, perfect on the ground. So I don’t regret having him but I wish I’d not been in a rush when I was 17/18 now.

you could do far worse than an ex racer for a gutsy kid in my opinion though! Most trainers seem to be quite honest in what injuries etc the horse has had which is better than many private homes or ‘retraining centres’ I have encountered. I have never scanned or xrayed mine prior to purchase, but I have checked soundness and veterinary history (a good screening prior to viewing is to check their racing record for any random year off breaks), and then taken out insurance as they do like a good vet bill ?

 

[ycbm]

Would it be better to get one fresh off the track or one that has already started their reeducation?

Fresh of the track will be cheaper, already started will radically reduce the uncertainty about whether it will take to the job you want it to do.
.

 

[MidChristmasCrisis]

I’m betting Elf can be a great help in sourcing an OTT and I think it’s a great idea.

 

[Antw23uk]

I would go for something from a place that retrains them fresh off the track. Something that has had its downtime but has started the basics of retraining. A good retraining yard listens to the horses and decides with them what their ideal discipline will be based on their strengths and talents and then finds homes suitable for a good match. You wont know this with something fresh off the track. Yes you'll pay a little more but what you'll get is something that can work in an outline, walk trot canter, knows what a circle is and what it means and with a good amount of certainty from an expert as to what they will achieve and be happy doing (i.e eventing/ Allrounder/ PC)

 

[HeyMich]

I would go for something from a place that retrains them fresh off the track. Something that has had its downtime but has started the basics of retraining. A good retraining yard listens to the horses and decides with them what their ideal discipline will be based on their strengths and talents and then finds homes suitable for a good match. You wont know this with something fresh off the track. Yes you'll pay a little more but what you'll get is something that can work in an outline, walk trot canter, knows what a circle is and what it means and with a good amount of certainty from an expert as to what they will achieve and be happy doing (i.e eventing/ Allrounder/ PC)

Ok, that sounds like a good option, thanks Ant. I really like the idea of someone figuring out if the horse is fit for the job before we take the leap - obviously horses can change in new homes and break easily, but it would be one of the bigger unknowns taken out of the decision making process. Any recommendations as to which retrainers to make enquiries with? I've googled some (including Solway) but they seem to have a fairly quick turnaround and don't appear to work much with the horses before they are rehomed.

 

[Antw23uk]

Ok, that sounds like a good option, thanks Ant. I really like the idea of someone figuring out if the horse is fit for the job before we take the leap - obviously horses can change in new homes and break easily, but it would be one of the bigger unknowns taken out of the decision making process. Any recommendations as to which retrainers to make enquiries with? I've googled some (including Solway) but they seem to have a fairly quick turnaround and don't appear to work much with the horses before they are rehomed.

Amanda at Mills Stables (millsstables.com) is lovely and very knowledgeable. They are on FB as well. I met them a couple of years ago and stupidly walked away from an absolute diamond of a horse because i didnt think him flashy enough for me ... and subsequently bought a totally unsuitable horse via a dealer who was returned rather quickly, by which time her TB had obviously been snapped up. If i was in the market for what i think you should go for, i would be straight on to her first.

 

[AandK]

I follow Racehorse Relief on FB and they seem to take their time with the horses they have, worth a look!

 

[HeyMich]

Ok, so I've started sending emails.... Eeek! OH doesn't know yet, and neither does the child who the horse would be for. HHO people, you are such a bad (good) influence!

I’m betting Elf can be a great help in sourcing an OTT and I think it’s a great idea.

Thanks MLC, I really like your positive approval Yes, the wonderful Elf has sent a long list of do's and don't's, and I've sent some introductory emails....

Amanda at Mills Stables (millsstables.com) is lovely and very knowledgeable. They are on FB as well. I met them a couple of years ago and stupidly walked away from an absolute diamond of a horse because i didnt think him flashy enough for me ... and subsequently bought a totally unsuitable horse via a dealer who was returned rather quickly, by which time her TB had obviously been snapped up. If i was in the market for what i think you should go for, i would be straight on to her first.

Worcester is quite a trek but you made her sound so lovely that I've sent an email!

I follow Racehorse Relief on FB and they seem to take their time with the horses they have, worth a look!

Helston in Cornwall might just be a tad too far, but thanks anyway!

I'll let you know how things pan out, or if my OH serves the divorce papers before I get too carried away... ;-)

 

[HeyMich]

Morning lovely lot!

So, an update of sorts. I've told OH and son of my musings and they have both agreed that it's not a wildly mad idea. Phew! No divorce papers issued yet anyway...

I've also started to moot the idea with local horsey friends and PC instructors etc... receiving a mixed reaction really. Some say: yes fab idea, when are we going shopping? Some say: no way, don't be ridiculous, why risk your son's health and confidence with a high-energy, untamed and untrained beast? (possibly paraphrasing a bit there) Trouble is, I can see both sides.

The reality is that there's no way we can consider a £15-20k ready made horse. We have to think out of the box, and at the moment, this is the only solution I can see. Ho hum...

I've seen a nice 4yr old mare for sale within a 2hr drive. Elf has seen the advert too, and hasn't said anything negative that would be a total showstopper. Worth a roadtrip maybe?

 

[Squeak]

Morning lovely lot!

So, an update of sorts. I've told OH and son of my musings and they have both agreed that it's not a wildly mad idea. Phew! No divorce papers issued yet anyway...

I've also started to moot the idea with local horsey friends and PC instructors etc... receiving a mixed reaction really. Some say: yes fab idea, when are we going shopping? Some say: no way, don't be ridiculous, why risk your son's health and confidence with a high-energy, untamed and untrained beast? (possibly paraphrasing a bit there) Trouble is, I can see both sides.

The reality is that there's no way we can consider a £15-20k ready made horse. We have to think out of the box, and at the moment, this is the only solution I can see. Ho hum...

I've seen a nice 4yr old mare for sale within a 2hr drive. Elf has seen the advert too, and hasn't said anything negative that would be a total showstopper. Worth a roadtrip maybe?

Some of the RoR's can be the most laid back horses you'll ever meet. I keep mine out 24/7 with no school and I can take him to a competition after a couple of days off and then be babysitting a youngster out hacking on the roads the next day. He's even looked after my friend for their first time riding. I could wax lyrical about how much I love that horse and how easy he is.

Go and try a couple and see how son gets on riding them and what you think of their temperaments

 

[HeyMich]

Some of the RoR's can be the most laid back horses you'll ever meet. I keep mine out 24/7 with no school and I can take him to a competition after a couple of days off and then be babysitting a youngster out hacking on the roads the next day. He's even looked after my friend for their first time riding. I could wax lyrical about how much I love that horse and how easy he is.

Go and try a couple and see how son gets on riding them and what you think of their temperaments

Yes, I think we might. Exciting!!

Was your chap always so laid back or did he chill out as he got older? Is he for sale? (Joking, maybe)

 

[humblepie]

My not particularly horsey (though has become horsey) OH's feeling on horses is that with an ex racehorse you have a blank canvas not something someone else has tried with and perhaps failed with - they have a good experience of life, they have seen lots, been professionally handled so are expected to get on with life. I am not one for generalisations but that does make sense. Excited to see how you get on.

Edited to say, my one who is no longer with me sadly also helped a friend get back into riding. She had lost her nerve and started riding him - he was a complete gentleman in all ways. Current one has the most excellent manners and is the easiest horse to do.

 

[ester]

roadtrip

 

[I'm Dun]

Yes, I think we might. Exciting!!

Was your chap always so laid back or did he chill out as he got older? Is he for sale? (Joking, maybe)

Mine is 6. Hes a dope on a rope. I find him a bit boring for slow hacking, but he lights up when you start cantering and jumping. Not in a strong silly way, he just loves it. He was a useless racehorse and apparently came out of training laid back that. Quite a few are sensible easy going horses, although still blood horses so athletic and quick I think the problem ones tend to have physical issues.

 

[ihatework]

It’s not a completely daft idea, no.
But equally don’t look at it as a cheaper no-brainer solution.

A 13yo just isn’t going to have the experience to retain one without significant support. As much, if not more than buying a youngster.

Often they do come with an increased need for veterinary support in the early days - physio, ulcer etc whilst they are retrained.

Id echo LEC, in your situation I’d probably try and concentrate on a slightly older NH campaigner

 

[Squeak]

Yes, I think we might. Exciting!!

Was your chap always so laid back or did he chill out as he got older? Is he for sale? (Joking, maybe)

Very exciting!!! Enjoy!

He's always been chilled out, so much so he was bought to be a nanny out hacking to the youngsters.

I did find a version 2 of him for my friends 14 year old daughter who was coming off a 14.2 this summer so they are out there!