Rotation of Pedal Bone

[hudsonw]

Hi, I was wondering if anyone knows how far a pedal bone can rotate?
My horse has had Laminitis since the 26th of June and has been on box rest since then. He had an x-ray a month a go and his pedal bone had rotated 8 degrees. He's had another x-ray 4 weeks later (today) and he's now rotated to 9 degrees.
He seems to be walking better, he's lost 77kg since being in, he's stopped shifting his weight and is turning better and i'm gutted that he's got worse...I thought he was looking better and was expecting the vet to tell me to reduce his bute and i was hoping to start walking him in the sand school so to be told he's got worse has totally thrown me backwards.
How far can his pedal bone rotate before it comes though his sole?
What happens if next month it's rotated again? should i have another x-ray done sooner than 4 weeks? Should i be preparing myself for the worst?

 

[vetsbestfriend]

Sorry I don't have any expertise in Laminitis, but plenty of people on here will be able to help. Just wanted to wish you lots of luck.

 

[Box_Of_Frogs]

Not an expert by any means but the pedal bone can rotate so much that it begins to press on the inside of the sole of the foot and even start to push through it. It is known as founder at that point and the prognosis is poor.

I'm staggered your horse has had pedal bone rotation/laminitis for so long without (apparently) any efforts by your vets to be more proactive in treating it. Your horse should have immediately been stabled on a thick soft bed which would help support the frog. In the acute stages, he shouldn't have left the stable to be walked at all. He should have had his diet very carefully controlled to reduce his calorie intake, but not to starve him which could cause even more problems. At some point, your vets may have suggested plastic frog supports for his feet. If part or all of the reason he developed laminitis was due to being very fat, then any controlled weight loss is good.

Did your vets offer any guidance at all? Any reputable horsey website can give a huge amount of information and I'd urge you to gen up on it so you can have a long overdue conversation with your vets to decide how to help your horse x

 

[stormybracken]

Check out www.performancebarefoot.co.uk , they have excellent advice about nutrition, environment, and exercise for ALL horses' feet whether shod or unshod. It may give you something practical you can do to help your horse.
Good luck.

 

[Magicmadge]

Five years ago my horse had some rotation (not sure of the % but clearly visable on x ray) We thought it was just an abcess to begin with and there was one, but thats when the pedal problem was picked up. It was only in one foot but she was crippled. She spent 2 weeks in the vets, farrier cut away a massive amount of hoof to get at the abcess which finally came out with such force it went up the wall. Her hoof didn't even resemble a hoof, so much was gone.The bottom was convex, like the underside of a saucer. She had shoes with built on frog supports and then bandages over them. Vets were doutfull and i was sure i would lose her. Once home we had 6 weeks box rest and bute, then tiny turnout 10foot by 20 foot. We then progressed to shoes with plastic pads with built on frog supports, and packing underneath, can't remember what hat was but expensive stuff, she wore those for a year with farrier every 4 weeks. She now has normal shoes on, sole has gone back although flat but then she had flat feet before. Has had gentle hacking and had her first foal in June this year, she is 17. She is sound but struggles on bad/stoney ground. Vet said with her it wasn't dietry laminitis but mechanical, she had a hard life before i got her with lots of roadwork. Bill was £3500 but although excluded now for pedal bone and abcess she is not excluded for laminitis. Don't give up it can be a long haul, but to see my girl now her baby i'm so pleased we gave her every chance.

 

[hudsonw]

I've had no end of problems with my vet and the service they have provided and i'll be writing to them when the bill is due as i don't think i should pay for the 3 different vets i had and the Bruised Sole, Abcess and fractured pedal bone they told me it could be, for the 1st 14 days before my farrier told me it was laminitis!!! Even when i told the 4th vet what the farrier had said they disagreed and thats when they x-rayed!!!
Luckerly I kept him in for the 1st 14 days as he couldn't walk...against vet advice of, he'll be ok to turn out!!!
It was Spillers who told me what i should be feeding him and the farrier fitted heartbar shoes.
My horse has 1kg of happy hoof split between two feeds, 600g of Farriers formula and 18lbs of 24hr soaked hay split between 3 nets a day. He's lost 77kg in 6 weeks.
The vet has been rubbish but no other vet will take me on their books as i'm already claiming with the vet i'm with now so i can't even change vets.
My horse has had 3 x-rays, the 1st one to confirm it was laminitis, the 2nd one a week later (which showed no further movement) and a 3rd one taken yesterday which has showed his right foot hasn't moved and his left has further rotated by 1 degree. He's now at 9 degree rotation but i don't know how much he can rotate before it's too late.
My vet has said there is nothing they can do and we'll just have to wait to see if it stops moving. I've got my farrier to reshoe on Tuesday and another x-ray booked for a months time.
What i don't know is...did the rotation occour at the begining of the month and he's been stable for 3 weeks or has it taken a whole month to rotate.
What i don't understand is that my horse is only on 2 bute a day (was on 4) and 6 asprin everyother day, he's walking better, turning better, kicking the door when it's feed time!!! but the x-ray has shown he's got worse???
I was gutted yesterday after all the hard work, mucking out 3 times a day, dieting, tears and cost to be told that he's not improving.
He's been stabled since the 26th of June!!!
4 other horses on my yard have come down with laminits within the last fortnight due to the grass being so lush and green!!!

 

[Box_Of_Frogs]

Oh hun - what a terrible time for you. Are you sure you couldn't get a referral to a specialist hospital? Not sure what the legal position is but if you're BHS member, I'm pretty certain that they will be able toadvise. I do hope something can be done x

 

[Dogstar]

Just a thought; when my mare had laminitis she was only on soaked hay to eat until the laminitis was no longer active. I introduced Happy Hoof and Farriers Formula only at a later stage. Thankfully, she made a full recovery despite mild rotation in both (flat) front feet. Sorry don't know the angle. Someone else I know lost two horses which had the disease at the same time as mine, possibly partly due to feeding haylage on box rest which was too rich? Also, my mare was left shoeless on a deep bed with frog supports initially. Shoes were not introduced until 5 months later.

 

[Sparkles]

Have a look on Tommy posts by RushyJ on new board 2, he's our 18.3 with chronic lami...

Get imprint shoes on him asap, definately NO walking, deep bed, 1-2% body weight of soaked hay, etc etc...if you want to chat just drop a message but best bet is going to be to talk with your vet about the rotation.
Number 1 priority is comfort and pain releif...what meds is he on?

Can give you Andrew poynter's number if you want to ring him up for advice...he's an absolute miracle worker farrier and made the imprint shoes himself. If it wasnt for him coming out asap and making a set of imprints for tommy his pedal bone would be through his sole now!

 

[Humble]

1 degree is neither here nor there. It could even be the due to the angle the vet took the x-rays e.g. if the foot was turned a fraction in or out compared with the last time, the resulting x-ray will look different (I'm a Human radiographer). The fact that he is walking better and especially turning better would indicate to me (my guy rotated 11°) things are improving but it takes a whole hoof growth - about 9 months - for the improvement to be visible on x-rays. I think the reason your vet is doing the x-rays is to determine things are not getting worse i.e. stablizing.

 

[Honeypots]

This should help...

http://www.laminitisclinic.org/Explaining%20Laminitis%20and%20its%20Prevention/Chapter%208.pdf

My boy had 15 degrees of rotation and has made a full recovery.
All the time there is pain, the laminae is inflammed and weakened and can allow more rotation so box rest is absolutely paramount as I'm sure you know.

Good luck

 

[zoeross0]

Hi, my horse has had laminitis since end of June, she had a 3 day course of steriod injection to treat a fat leg with a fly bite and reacted to it on the 4th day by being crippled with laminitis. She has been on shavings bed up to the door and was on 4 bute a day initially, now on 2 bute a day and also sedalin, we have been trying her on metaformin tablets but I dont think they make a difference either way, she has been blood tested and they have come back negative.

Ten days ago we had the steward clogs fitted, I think they have made her more comfortable, although its very different to judge her movement in the box as she tends to stand and eat and not much else! But shes started resting a hind leg when she dozes now, so Im taking that as a good sign that she feels a bit more comfortable, but its such tiny progress, but my vet has said that its a long road to recovery.

She was x-rayed just over a month ago and her right foot had rotated, so we had the styrofoam pads fitted, these were a nightmare to keep on her she would chew the tape holding them and made her coronet band infected!

When we x-rayed three weeks ago, she was walking much better but the x-ray showed that her right foot had stabilised and the left foot had now rotated really badly!

Thats when we have up on the styrofoam pads and had the clogs fitted, although shes still doddery she is quite happy in herself and im just keeping everything crossed that she can recover from this.

Good luck with your horse, its an awful time, Im getting fed up with the box rest thing and we've cancelled our holiday in september as it didnt feel right leaving her not knowing how she will be, its worth ringing the laminitis clinic they give really good advise, also worth blood testing incase there is a metabolic issue, I know that horses can recover from having severe rotation with good shoeing and management, but its a long slog, so wish you luck and any doubts with your vet, just change them, its not worth not feeling confident with something like this.

 

[SueWade]

Hi there my heart goes out to you. My boy was diagnosed with laminitis at the begining of May. He was 3 degrees on his near side front and 4 degrees rotated on his off side front, his back were fine. After 1 month he was 4 and 6 degrees rotated and I was, like yourself, gutted. He was box rested, not even going out of his door, for 3 months and I am now starting to ride him in walk. He went back to Newmarket for xrays last week and is now only 1 degree rotated - so don't give up! He was only fed last year's hay and that was soaked for 20 minutes. He only had ACP when he first was on box rest and never had bute or anyhting else. Good luck and don't give up!!

 

[hudsonw]

Just wanted to let you know that i had to have Gulliver put down today as his pedal bone was nearly though his sole.
I let him out in to his field for a last munch of grass...after 2 months of box rest he bucked all the way to the field!!!
He cantered off, bucking and didn't even look lame!!!
After letting him have a 10 min munch i took him to the holly bush at the bottom of the field and the vet injected him.
He still had grass in his mouth but it was peaceful and calm.
I was with him until the end and held his head while he went.
I feel like my heart has been ripped out but i know he's no longer in pain and won't be ever again.
I wanted to thank everyone for their advice and support.
Give your horses an extra big hug next time you see them.
Wendy
xx
PS...I used a different vet!!!

 

[misst]

So sorry to hear this - you tried so hard for so long.
Another hard decision made today - but I am sure another right one.
RIP Gulliverx
((HUGS)) to you. He will be thanking you for setting him freex
It does get better with time - I promisexx

 

[blc111]

I am so sorry to hear this esp after all your loving effort to help him over the months. Not much compensation but at least he is not in pain any more. your description of his last few moments made me cry, its sounds like he was happy when he went, i cant think of a nicer way.
lots of hugs and my thoughts are with you

 

[Pasha]

RIP Gulliver xxx

 

[Sparkles]

We just went through the same last night with our big lad though it wasnt his feet/lamitis that ended it in the end but his kidneys and liver had stopped from the amount of drugs been on for the past 5 weeks or so. He wasnt eating or anything and had pretty much given up :'( Held his head in my lap too. It's absolutely heartbreaking.

I completely feel for your loss.x

 

[SueWade]

Sooo Sorry. I too have tears in my eyes and feel gutted for you.
Take care xx