rugby ball sized feeds

Emilieu

Emilieu

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Am I right in thinking that feeds should be no bigger than rugby balls BEFORE soaking? Does it matter how big they are afterwards? Deano's grass nuts seem to be swelling to a ridiculous size!
 
I don't think it matters if it's roughage/ fibre. I think in terms of concentrated/ cereal feeds (nuts, cubes etc) you must make sure that there is no more than 2kg in weight of concentrate/ cereals in any feed. From what I know sugar beet is counted as a cereal but you would use the dry weight of that.

So you could have a feed consisting of

A scoop alfa chaff (500g)
Grass nuts (300g)
Large scoop sugar beet (about 200g dry weight)
Scoop cubes (1.8kg)

I think.... Can anyone tell me I'm on the right path?? I think it's because roughage gets digested in a different part of stomach/ bowels so it doesn't affect the rugby ball rule?
 
OldNag said:
I thought it referred to size of stomach , being the size of a rugby ball. So the feed shouldn't be bigger than that in its made up form?
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I looked at changng to something like simple systems feeds and spoke to one of their staff and the recommended feed quantities we talked about were really high, def more than rugby sized so I thought it's because that was all pure roughage(the feeds we discussed at least).


Must be someone out there that knows?
 
Tbh I'm just really glad there are other people out there that don't know! I thought it was a bit of a daft question but I really didn't know and google didn't help me!
 
How is it so hard?

The stomach itself is the size of a rugby ball... So if you measure DRY food to fit, once soaked it will be the size of TWO rugby balls!!

So, it's the finished article that has to be the size of a rugby ball. Would an illustration of the alimentary canal help anyone? I'm pretty sure there is only ONE stomach unlike cows.

Yes fibre is digested in the hind gut but it does have to go through the stomach like everything else. It doesn't get magically transported to a different department via lifts or escalators.
 
The Spillers nutritionist was really good at explaining this, she's more than happy to talk to people if you give her a ring, she has a life size fabric demonstration model of horses innards called Dolly!
 
But surely grass nuts are fibre which is digested in the hindgut? The horse doesn't ration himself to a rugby ball sized amount of grass in the field then stop to digest it!!
It refers to cereals which are digested in the stomach.
 
As I understand it, it is only apllicable to concentrate feeds, I've always gone by the old fashioned rule of no more than 4lbs per feed. I think that the reasoning is that too much concentrate feed will be pushed out of the stomach before it is digested properly risking acidosis and colic, fibre is digested in the hindgut so is fine in large quantities. Surely grass nuts are a fibre feed?

Edited - cross posted with maggiesmum. ;)
 
I stick to the rule of a max of 1kg of dry food in any one feed.

Not sure on this one, as when horse is grazing he needs to get a mouthful of grass first and then chew and move at same time, whereas we conveniently put a big mound of food in one place so he can take bigger bites.
 
So my feed is now too big? Im just confused because it was rugby ball sized but I started adding more water and the pellets swelled further so it is bigger but with water not with food, there is still the same amount of food that there ever was!
 
maggiesmum said:
But surely grass nuts are fibre which is digested in the hindgut? The horse doesn't ration himself to a rugby ball sized amount of grass in the field then stop to digest it!!
It refers to cereals which are digested in the stomach.
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Yes but that is continuous small amounts like they are designed to eat.

Short feeds are munched in a different way to grass and hay.
 
Just looked at an email of advice I got from a feed company (not sure I'm allowed to say who? But mentioned above... ) they say what I thought - cereals must not be fed in quantities larger than 2 kg... But that

Roughage products such as theirs ' is broken down in the massive hind gut, not the stomach and small intestine, so it is utilised in just the same way as hay and grazing.* It is possible to feed only once a day, there is no limit to meal size, a horse can be worked off a feed and fed directly after work and is far less likely to experience any problems'

Also I did feed profiles for my horse on feed xl and when it analysed my feed it broke the volume down into how much cereal was contained and stated that as it was 3.5 kg it must be fed in at least 2 feeds a day, with no feed containing more than 2kg of cereal - but it did not count my chaff etc in this.
 
tallyho! said:
Yes but that is continuous small amounts like they are designed to eat.

Short feeds are munched in a different way to grass and hay.
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If that was something that caused issues though then they wouldn't be able to be used as complete hay replacers; mixing grass pellets with a high fibre chaff actually helps to slow the digestion of the grass pellets down but makes a much bigger feed which is totally safe.
 
Yes I agree with that touchstone... I think hay replacers are "grazed" as such but I was talking about proper short/hard feeds.
 
Nobody told my cobs that their stomachs are only the size of rugby balls! From the way they nosh, I reckon they think they are Space-hopper* sized! :p


*sorry to all the young folk who may not know what this is!!!
 
As I understand it starch is best digested in the stomach whereas fibre is digested in the hind gut. If you give an overly large starch-based feed then the stomach may start emptying before the starch has been properly digested, with a two fold result. Firstly the horse will not receive the full calorie benefit from the starch because it has passed from the gut before it was fully digested and secondly the undigested starch can upset the delicate balance in the hind gut which may then lead to various problems including inefficient fibre digestion, laminitis etc.

Whereas if you feed a large fibre feed it is likely to be consumed more slowly in the first place due to the fibrous nature and even if the feed is passed through to the hind gut the fibre is still digested properly and there is no undigested starch to upset the balance of the gut.
 
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I have two fatties, so they get golf ball sized feeds and its not an issue for me, but I would rather split the feed into smaller sizes and feed bucket feeds more times a day, than give huge bucketfulls of hard feed, whatever the feed co suggest. If there is nothing more in the feed than haylage and hay, why feed it? There must be something that needs dygesting differently, surely.. (serious question).
 
Honey08 said:
If there is nothing more in the feed than haylage and hay, why feed it? There must be something that needs dygesting differently, surely.. (serious question).
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Various reasons why you might feed a fibre feed that has 'nothing more than haylage and hay':

1. Horse might have impaired dentition so needs fibre in a short chop or mash form that is easier to eat.

2. Horse might have a limited appetite and find eating short chop or mash feeds more tempting than long forage alone.

3. Studies have shown that horses will consume more forage when offered different types so a poor doer can be tempted to consume more calories when fed, say, a tub of soaked grass nuts alongside its hay net.

4. Some types of fibre based bucket feeds may contain more highly digestible forms of fibre than hay or haylage, which is again useful for poor doers or hard working horses.

Those are just off the top of my head, I'm sure other people can suggest more.
 
The nutrient content of some fibre based feeds can vary wildly therefore you may want to feed alfalfa as a forage for calcium etc...
 
TGM said:
As I understand it starch is best digested in the stomach whereas fibre is digested in the hind gut. If you give an overly large starch-based feed then the stomach may start emptying before the starch has been properly digested, with a two fold result. Firstly the horse will not receive the full calorie benefit from the starch because it has passed from the gut before it was fully digested and secondly the undigested starch can upset the delicate balance in the hind gut which may then lead to various problems including inefficient fibre digestion, laminitis etc.

Whereas if you feed a large fibre feed it is likely to be consumed more slowly in the first place due to the fibrous nature and even if the feed is passed through to the hind gut the fibre is still digested properly and there is no undigested starch to upset the balance of the gut.
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What she says!!

A feed containing starch/grain(which includes a mix of plain chaff and a hard feed!) need to be digested fully in the stomach. If it's too large it starts to empty into the intestines too early leading to problems TGM mentioned and things like acidosis. It also includes a large (but not overly large) starch dinner followed by stuffing their faces with hay. They really should be made to digest the hard feed first.

A huge dinner of fibre is no different from loads of hay. There are plenty of high calories fibres but they still get digested in the rear gut like grass/hay. That includes sugarbeet, straw chaff, alfalfa, dried grass chaff, grass nuts etc.
 
TGM said:
As I understand it starch is best digested in the stomach whereas fibre is digested in the hind gut. If you give an overly large starch-based feed then the stomach may start emptying before the starch has been properly digested, with a two fold result. Firstly the horse will not receive the full calorie benefit from the starch because it has passed from the gut before it was fully digested and secondly the undigested starch can upset the delicate balance in the hind gut which may then lead to various problems including inefficient fibre digestion, laminitis etc.

Whereas if you feed a large fibre feed it is likely to be consumed more slowly in the first place due to the fibrous nature and even if the feed is passed through to the hind gut the fibre is still digested properly and there is no undigested starch to upset the balance of the gut.
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^^^^^ this is correct
 
Ok thank you. So the grass nuts are ok with the extra water added. He gets his balancer and a handful of chaff in the same feed, will he be getting all the vits and minerals from his balancer if the feed is bigger than recommended size?
 
Erm - so by the 'rugby ball size' rule, a 12hh pony could well be fed the same as my 17.2 warmblood?!

I feed a big ole' bucketful of feed...because I have a big ole' horse ;) I wouldn't feed the same to other horses on the yard though - surely it's more about getting the right balance for your own horse, not getting hung up on the size and shape of your feed!
 
April blossom - an average sized horse (ie a 500kg tb) has an 8 litre stomach. If you then make allowance for gastric fluid etc already in there then the maximum feed size should be 5 litres. You then need to scale up or down from that if you have a Shettie or a Shire :)
 
I have found things so much easier since moving to Pure Feeds. I feed most of the horses here one stubbs scoop of Pure Easy and that is that. I spray warm water on it and then feed. One scoop equals 1 kg. The feed has a balancer and chaff in it already. Recommended feeding amount is around 2 kg a day for an average sized horse, so couldn't be easier! :)
 
I'm doing the online Equine Nutrition course (which is what prompted my question) and I have just checked their discussion forum where someone has asked the same question - the tutor's answer is that the feed should weigh no more than 2kg BEFORE SOAKING. I will weight his feed tonight and go with that. Thanks everyone.
 
Wagtail said:
I have found things so much easier since moving to Pure Feeds. I feed most of the horses here one stubbs scoop of Pure Easy and that is that. I spray warm water on it and then feed. One scoop equals 1 kg. The feed has a balancer and chaff in it already. Recommended feeding amount is around 2 kg a day for an average sized horse, so couldn't be easier! :)
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I have just changed to PureFeeds and am really liking it too as do my horses (although grey mare would say her feeds are gone too quickly!) Its actually nice to have a feed where you dont have feed so much to reach the recommended amount to get the right amount of vits and mins - so many of the other feeds you have to feed huge amounts. The 2 smaller ponies would get bored!
 
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