Rules re apprentice farriers shoeing on their own

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POLLDARK

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Are there any rules re apprentices being sent out repeatedly to shoe horses on their own. I'm beginning to forget what their boss looks like & am worried how things are going. Bottling myself up to make a fuss or should I not worry.?
 
The information you seek is on the farriers registration council website. I am 100% sure fourth years can and I 'think' third years can too.

I don't think it should be illegal either as how the heck do you all expect them to learn!? You horse owners hate them shoeing, hate them shoeing alone and don't seem to think either should happen.

How do you think YOUR farrier learned!!!
 
Never mind the rules, you are paying for a fully qualified experienced farrier, not the apprentices. He needs to be checking their work, it is also not far on them they are supposed to be supervised. One reason I changed was the actual time my farrier spent on each horses the apprentices did most of it (some were very good) but he just banged the shoes on. speak up, too late if heaven forbid there is damage, good luck
 
No idea what the rules are but I would make a fuss. I would not be happy to have an apprentice doing them at all without the boss present.
 
My memory is that once they have reached a certain stage it's allowed.
The apprentices do mine often they are so contentious and full of all the new trends natural balance and all that .i don't mind if they are doing a good job.
 
Yikes. I wouldn't want an apprentice shoeing without any supervision. But then I wouldn't want anyone shoeing my horses, so maybe I'm just very picky, lol! ;):D.
 
I would politely ask your farrier if he could do him/her next time as you want to discuss his/her feet.
That said, our did the same, I didnt see the boss for ages and when the apprentice qualified I swapped to him to that I had the same farrier!! :p

on the other hand I swapped farriers once because he was expensive as it was (my horse had remedial shoes so this is how I justified not changing) but I then paid something like £130 for a regular 'no frills' shoes putting on a new horse, put on by an apprentice!!:eek::eek: I didnt pay that one...!!!:mad:
 
Alphamare said:
The information you seek is on the farriers registration council website. I am 100% sure fourth years can and I 'think' third years can too.

I don't think it should be illegal either as how the heck do you all expect them to learn!? You horse owners hate them shoeing, hate them shoeing alone and don't seem to think either should happen.

How do you think YOUR farrier learned!!!
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With all due respect - that is rubbish...

I'm more than happy for a 'learner' of any trade/profession to get their hands dirty actually doing the job to a level that their training or supervision needs suit...

But, having had months of my TB dropping shoes on an almost weekly basis and most shoeing being undertaken by the apprentice rather than the qualified farrier who was happy to blame the feet 100% - I changed farriers... On the unshod horses/ponys the apprentice was fabulous as he really took his time and was lovely with the animals - but, his ability to shoe a horse that didn't have 'easy' feet was lacking... Not his fault - he is an apprentice and therefore still learning...

Amazingly, shoes are now staying on for the full period advised by new farrier and I'm getting the experienced and professional service I have always paid for and expected...
 
POLLDARK said:
Are there any rules re apprentices being sent out repeatedly to shoe horses on their own. I'm beginning to forget what their boss looks like & am worried how things are going. Bottling myself up to make a fuss or should I not worry.?
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if you're not happy with their work then you need to speak to the boss and ask for him to come out next time, if you don't speak up he won't know there is an issue;)

I have recently changed farriers purely because mine has always been one of the more expensive ones in the area which wasn't a problem when it was him coming to trim, often with an apprentice who then qualified. I didn't have a problem with the newly qualified lads work but did feel a bit miffed at paying the same rate as i had been paying for 20+ years experience. Now i pay about £10 per horse less for a trim with the new farrier!
 
One of the most expensive farriers locally to me hardly ever goes out to his customers, he sends his apprentices. I stopped using him because he was very expensive and they took too much foot off.
For me you should not be paying top dollar for unsupervised apprentices.
 
So if all farriers have to charge less for their apprentices how do you think they can make enough money to employ and train them!?? It's not just the apprentice salary they have to pay you know! My point is just being proved over and over again on this thread. If you lot had your way there would be no more farriers! Don't you get that! You think your farrier with his 20 years experience just sprung into being!? If you trust him you should trust his teaching too.
 
Sorry but this particular farrier charges £30 a set more than my current farrier, never supervises them, and his apprentices have been known to cripple horses.
I have no problem with paying full wack for supervised apprentices, or for late 3rd or 4th year, but only if said farrier is in a reasonable price bracket. You should not be paying more for an apprentice than you would for 90% of the farriers in the area!
 
Alphamare said:
So if all farriers have to charge less for their apprentices how do you think they can make enough money to employ and train them!?? It's not just the apprentice salary they have to pay you know! My point is just being proved over and over again on this thread. If you lot had your way there would be no more farriers! Don't you get that! You think your farrier with his 20 years experience just sprung into being!? If you trust him you should trust his teaching too.
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I'm all for having a trainee doctor assist in treating one of my children too... They need to learn... I don't expect said trainee doctor to take over sole care of my child's medical needs *before* they achieve the level of knowledge necessary... Or for their superior to blame the child when their trainee is unable to provide the correct aspect of care...

If an apprentice farrier isn't ready and needs their 'boss' to step in and offer a bit more training instead of leaving the apprentice to muddle along with continual bad results - the farrier is at fault IMO... IF the apprentice can cope with the aspect of work required of them then fine, they should be paid the same for having provided the correct professional service...
 
Alphamare, when you go to the hairdresser you have a choice of levels of expertise. If you are happy with a Junior stylist you pay less. They are qualified but haven't the fine tuning and technique of a Director whose charges may well be twice the Junior's.

I dropped a farrier with extortionate charges, he used to make it up as he went along and used to put the price up by £2 every vist, 6 weeks. He also became a stranger to me sending out apprentices to shoe a recovering Laminitic which didn't go well. I objected strongly to paying an apprenctice the same money to refit heart bar shoes.

And for the record I often get my hair cut at a local college, so am not against people learning their craft on me.
 
My farrier had his apprentices out with his this morning. Farrier checked what they were doing and the fit of shoe etc, and IMO they did a fab job, and I think they'll do very well for themselves in the future once they have fully qualified.

If you are not happy having an apprentice, phone your farrier and tell him. If not, change.
 
It's about the job they do, as an owner you should have trained yourself to recognise a well shod foot if an apprentice does a good job I don't have any problem paying the full price for it.
 
I was recommended a large practice in Surrey and in the two shoeings I had, neither was the farrier himself. First apprentice was in his 2nd year and did an appalling job. I complained to the farrier's PA (yup, he had a PA) and the next time another apparentice turned up (3rd year). He did quite a good job, actually, but the 2hrs late was what made me give up on that practice. I'm still told the head man does a fab job, but I'll never know and as others have found, the apprentices were more than other fully qualified farriers in the area. I'd have stuck with number 2, though, if it wasn't for the lateness (when you work full time in a non-horsey profession, it just doesn't go down well, turning up at lunchtime because you were 'playing horsey' as they see it!). The first guy was nowhere near ready to shoe on his own. Balance was terrible and the shoes themselves almost touched in the centre of the frog. :S
 
Thanks everyone for your views. I have decided to make sure the boss comes out to check on progress, it will either put my mind at rest or confirm a gut feeling. I just don't like making a fuss.
 
Alphamare said:
So if all farriers have to charge less for their apprentices how do you think they can make enough money to employ and train them!?? It's not just the apprentice salary they have to pay you know! My point is just being proved over and over again on this thread. If you lot had your way there would be no more farriers! Don't you get that! You think your farrier with his 20 years experience just sprung into being!? If you trust him you should trust his teaching too.
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guess you're married to a farrier? :)

Of course i don't think my farrier just sprung into being with 20 years experience:rolleyes: i know that he will have worked his way through his apprenticeship the same as the boys he now teaches, I was happy to pay his prices when it was him visiting, or him and the boys and he was overseeing their work. The thing with experience is that it can't be taught, it is gained over months and years of hard work.
Oh and 'us lot' are the ones that pay out over £100 for 4 trims which takes an hour every 8 weeks, if my old farrier only ever did trims and never shod a horse again he would still earn more in a day than i do in a week so i don't think they are exactly struggling to make a living:rolleyes:
 
I do find all these threads about being worried about discussing things with farriers odd. Surely you have a professional relationship with your farrier, you pay him to look after your horses feet. If you are not happy with the service he/she provides, then discuss it or look for another farrier, whose work you do like and so change to them.
 
Well must admit my Farrier and his apprentice come and do trim my horses feet and shoe the 1 at the moment and I'm happy to let the apprentice start shoeing him as he's had an excellent teacher and my horses are happy bunnies having them about and I have 5,even the foal who is turning out to be a quirky, they are very very good with and he is very slowly coming around and that is not their fault,just the foal.
 
I have farrier out tomorrow for my four. My youngster is getting front shoes on for the first time. I have no issues with an apprentice doing this and him supervising. They usually swap work around between them. My farrier is always there tho.
I have stopped using a farrier tho after sending an apprentice out alone. IMO he did a shoddy job and the farrier refused to come out and have a look to believe me. I therefore stopped giving him my business
 
My farrier used to always come with his apprentice and supervise for a good 2-3 years, then the year before the apprentice qualified he started coming on his own probably every other time. We certainly never went more than 2 shoeings without boss man checking up. Now hes fully qualified but still working for his boss. Exapprentice comes most often but boss man still does them every now and again. It seems a good balance, Ive never had any issues in 5 years of using him or (ex)apprentice :). Same money for exapprentice and farrier but I dont mind because they arent extortionate, are honest, and do a good job :). In fact I was very impressed with exapprentice first time he did my new filly, she threw her toys out her pram a little and he dealt with her firmly but not harshly. Shes been an angel to trim ever since :). There has to be a balance for farriers to learn, but if you're unhappy with the service in that they are either taking the mick or not doing a good enough job, speak to him or let your feet do the talking! :)
 
Well my farrier wouldn't let his apprentice go alone if he didn't think the apprentice wasn't up to it,and he's never been wrong yet.And I do have faith in them.
 
As has had been said you have a right to a level of service. they are well paid but somehow we tend to pussyfoot around them. My husband is a plumber if we sent the apprentice to fit a boiler unsupervised the customer would have a fit and rightly so.:mad:
 
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