Running out of options and patience.

[x_Fiona_x]

This is my first post, I hope its in the right place

I bought a rising 4yo mare just over a year ago. I bought her believing she had been broken and had a balanced walk, trot and canter and had started pole work, but had had the winter off since. The lady had no facilities to try her so I could only hack her down the road and back. She seemed to have a lovely nature, was well within my budget and the lady seemed to be trust worthy so I bought her.
I first got on her a few days after she came, having allowed her to settle in. I soon realised the balanced walk, trot and canter was a rubbish, in fact if I hadnt seen a picture of her being ridden I would not have believed she had been backed. She planted her feet and refused to move, without either getting a smack with the whip,being threatened with it- I dont usually believe in whips - or being led. This is something we have worked on and now I very rarely have to use the whip, though I still carry it, and her trot is balanced - her outline has improved greatly- and her canter is certainly getting there.
The problem we have yet to solve is she kicks. She has kicked the water trough off the wall, her boredom lick off the wall, made several holes in the wood, and at one point kicked a load bearing wall and almost knocked the whole stables down. This has now progressed into kicking the fence in the field. We have started giving her Wendals Moody Mare which has cut down the amount of kicking she does during the night, however she still kicks first thing in the morning, which means my mum gets up early just to let her out to stop her damaging the stable. When she kicks the fence in the field we either go out and take her in or give her hay. I know this is playing right into her hands but if we dont we have the stables and the fence to fix. Im stuck between a rock and a hard place and the only option I can see is to sell her, but the thought of this breaks my heart as apart from her kicking she is a great mare with loads of potential. Ive possibly bit off more than I can chew, but I didnt know enough about her before I bought her and I certainly wont make that mistake again.

 

[zsmm4]

Welcome to the forum. A lesson learned,so at least theres something positive. Sounds like shes hungry and knows the kicking gets your attention and then you feed her. Shes trained you to feed her when she kicks. Can she have hay 24/7 in the field and stable? Might go a long way to solving the problem you have.

 

[x_Fiona_x]

She has a small holed haynet through the night as well as extra hay on the ground and they are given hay in the morning when they are put out and there is usually still a pile there when we take them in at night. So she has most of the time.

 

[zsmm4]

Sell,give away or have her shot, lifes too short to have to keep a horse you dont like .

 

[x_Fiona_x]

zsmm4- you are heading along the same lines as my dad, although he is less of the sell or give away, more of the shoot.

 

[Echo Bravo]

Sounds like you have a mentally inmature mare. I'd go back to basics start groundwork again and go on from there, you have to remember she's very young and still trying to find her feet and I'd say stressed out with the kicking lark as there is always a reason why she is doing it. Write a list of what she does and when.

 

[x_Fiona_x]

Thanks for the advice johnrobert. As I said above it is mainly in the morning when she wants out or at night when she wants in. However I put one of my other mares into the sandschool mid day because she is prone to colic and she does kick the fence then. (the sand school is outdoor and right next to the field they share)

 

[ChesnutsRoasting]

zssm4 - Honest to god, if we all had your way of thinking there would be no horses in existence! Have her shot - you have to be kidding me?

Personally, I would sling her out, with company 24/7. Most Four year olds aren't balanced - this takes time and good training. The napping is to be epected of a horse that hasn't seen much. I think your expectations of her were too high, as JR says, go back to basics and build her confidence through correct training.

 

[jane123]

Try putting electric fencing inside both rails of the fence (at both heights). She might get the idea kicking is unpleasant, and it will break if she gets bit wrapped up, esp if you use tape type.

 

[NeedNewHorse]

Sell,give away or have her shot, lifes too short to have to keep a horse you dont like .

Really? I am assuming you are having a bad day and want some sort of attention by your odd post.

I also assume you have not got horses, as if you do god help them as your horsemanship skills seem to be non-existant. Goodluck in your problem free life!

 

[wildwest]

i second electric fencing :}

 

[JanetGeorge]

I bought a rising 4yo mare just over a year ago. I bought her believing she had been broken and had a balanced walk, trot and canter and had started pole work, but had had the winter off since. The lady had no facilities to try her so I could only hack her down the road and back. She seemed to have a lovely nature, was well within my budget and the lady seemed to be trust worthy so I bought her.

Poor baby! And poor you -it's disappointing when it all goes pear shaped. I assume she was rising 4 when you bought her (rather than rising 4 now which would mean she'd been backed VERY early and the problems would be FAR worse.)

NO newly backed horse has a 'balanced' walk, trot and canter - they should develop over a period of 3 to months (depending on conformation, maturity, and the skill and sensitivity of the rider.)

I also assume that she was either backed rather quickly - or there were some other 'stresses'around the process - OR that you have led her astray. Young horse, new place, neither horse nor human very sure of each other ....

The behaviour in the field/stable is a bit more worrying. Either she HAS learned to pull your strings - or there may be either a pain - or hormone - issue to deal with. The EASIEST (and possibly most successful) method of sorting this out would be to send her to a GOOD trainer for re-backing:

1. in a strange yard with strange people she'll be back to where she was when you bought her. Practically every horse that comes to me for remedial work makes a TOTAL liar out of its owner - they just don't DO all the naughty things the owner says they do! It's partly 'new boy/girl in school' syndrome - they're a bit unsure of their surroundings so keep their heads down! And we EXPECT them to behave - so they do! Whereas often the owner has taught them that bad behaviour WORKS!

2. it is likely that some vital steps inthe backing process were not carried outproperly in the first place - or that the little mare has a small brain and a short memory and 'went native' while turned out. She then got confused when brought back into work. Taking her back to the beginning - now she's a bit stronger and more confident in her ability to be a bit of a tit - should set her straight!

And - to zsmm4 - when RESPONSIBLE horse people take on a horse they take on a COMMITMENT! If things go wrong, then passing the problem to someone else (other than a GOOD trainer chosen by the owner) is irresponsible - and bordering on cruel!!

A good trainer will assess the horse and the owner/rider. If the two are unsuited, the trainer will advise selling to a more suitable home - once the problems have been ironed out! Otherwise, chance are the horse will be stuck in a vicious circle with no chance of escape until shooting IS the only option!

 

[Tinypony]

Electric fencing in the stable?
I'd turn her out 24/7 to break the anticipation of routine. Then when she's more settled I'd reintroduce stables gradually trying to avoid a strict timetable. I might also consult a holistic vet, which in my experience tends to be a bit expensive for their initial visit, but then really worth it.

 

[attheponies]

My mare kicks the door/wall when I am getting the feeds ready,but I tend to laugh as it is just part of her character, admittedly she hasn't kicked a wall down yet! Am I right in thinking that from a riding perspective you are happy, it's just the kicking behaviour that is worrying you? Your mare is still very young and I think I'd be looking at causes such as hunger, boredom, stress, is she out in company etc? The electric tape is a good idea, my ID/TB mare walked through fences/stable doors until she met an electric fence. Please ignore zssm4's comment, this sounds like my OH when he is having a bad horse day!

 

[Celticprospect]

I'd go with turning her out 24/7 as well - with other horses as well so she can use up some of her excess energy playing with others. Might be worth the electric fence in the field as well. It might just be a baby thing, my youngster was terrible for about a year, but is now a total donkey!
If her only problem now is the kicking I'd give her another 6 months or so to grow up and try some different routines to see what suits her. It'll be worth it when you solve it!
Good luck

 

[sykokat]

Sell,give away or have her shot, lifes too short to have to keep a horse you dont like .

Is that really necessary??? Someone new on the forum asks for a bit of advice/help and you make a comment like that!!! As JohnRobert says it sounds like she is still a bit of a baby and needs to go back a bit with her education. Many horses do throughout their lives. If thats the way you are with your own horses, I am glad I am not one of them.

 

[guido16]

Have you examined her legs to check she doesnt have any bugs lurking about in there?

 

[zsmm4]

heidirusso and cougar. I have owned horses and ponies for nearly 50 years. I've bred a few,backed and schooled a few,sorted out some problem ponies [ usually the owner being unhorsey and the horse having got bad habits through inexperienced owner]. Competed sucessfully in ridden classes and shown at County level sucessfully in hand. Also hunted.
regarding the unbalanced paces, yes the horse is young and had been out of work and its far too much to expect it to be balanced IMO. I was refering to the kicking issue.
Janetgeorge,that why I advocated shooting,so it doesnt go from pillar to post.

 

[beanie_boo]

heidirusso and cougar. I have owned horses and ponies for nearly 50 years. I've bred a few,backed and schooled a few,sorted out some problem ponies [ usually the owner being unhorsey and the horse having got bad habits through inexperienced owner]. Competed sucessfully in ridden classes and shown at County level sucessfully in hand. Also hunted.
regarding the unbalanced paces, yes the horse is young and had been out of work and its far too much to expect it to be balanced IMO. I was refering to the kicking issue.
Janetgeorge,that why I advocated shooting,so it doesnt go from pillar to post.

So why the unnecessary comment about having her shot?
We're not really interested in the "experience" you've got, there are plenty of people on here who have done the same, if not more.
I think your comment was particularly harsh and wont have helped xfionax in anyway at all, apart from make her feel worse about the situation.

 

[sykokat]

heidirusso and cougar. I have owned horses and ponies for nearly 50 years. I've bred a few,backed and schooled a few,sorted out some problem ponies [ usually the owner being unhorsey and the horse having got bad habits through inexperienced owner]. Competed sucessfully in ridden classes and shown at County level sucessfully in hand. Also hunted.
regarding the unbalanced paces, yes the horse is young and had been out of work and its far too much to expect it to be balanced IMO. I was refering to the kicking issue.
Janetgeorge,that why I advocated shooting,so it doesnt go from pillar to post.

And that makes it ok to make a comment like that to someone who is asking for help??? I think not. If you havn't got something useful/constructive to say, say nothng.

 

[Kelpie]

JanetGeorge's advice above looks sound to me.

I might also add, that when a horse displace such odd "vices", if I might call the kicking that, it can often be because there is a hole in the training somewhere that has left the horse uncertain about life (assuming you've ruled out possible physical issues?). Get someone sensible and understanding to help you find the hole and I'm sure that will take you a long way forward.

Good luck - and trust in your own judgement as to when someone is giving you bad advice

 

[LeneHorse]

I just wondered whether she is stabled next to a gelding? A mare that used to be at our yard hated being next to geldings and would literally kick down breeze block stable walls to try and get them. Is your mare worse when she is in season?
I would also maybe think about putting her on a magnesium based calmer rather than the herbal mix.
She is still a baby and sounds as if she has lots of potential so don't give up - you'll find a way through this.

 

[Spudlet]

heidirusso and cougar. I have owned horses and ponies for nearly 50 years. I've bred a few,backed and schooled a few,sorted out some problem ponies [ usually the owner being unhorsey and the horse having got bad habits through inexperienced owner]. Competed sucessfully in ridden classes and shown at County level sucessfully in hand. Also hunted.
regarding the unbalanced paces, yes the horse is young and had been out of work and its far too much to expect it to be balanced IMO. I was refering to the kicking issue.
Janetgeorge,that why I advocated shooting,so it doesnt go from pillar to post.

Have you been on here before under another name? You seem to remind me of someone...

OP - JanetGeorge's advice is sound. Have you had the vet check her? Is she was backed young, there may be problems caused by that and it may be at least partly that she is in pain.

 

[x_Fiona_x]

I've done all the retraining as far as her riding is concerned and she is getting on great. Her ridden work is no longer the problem, just her kicking. I have thought of using electric tape but I was worried she might get tangled in it, but its certainly worth a try.
Leaving her out 24/7 wouldnt solve the problem as if she is left out she stands and kicks the fence until we take her in and I cant leave any of the other horses out (one never stops eating and is prone to colic, another has laminitis and another is watching her weight)

 

[attheponies]

Just a thought but what about trying a stable mirror (positioned so she can't kick it and break it) or one of these toys designed to alleviate boredom (food ball or similar).

 

[Kelpie]

ok, well if it's really not a training issue, how about some nice big fat layers of rubber on her stable wall? Kills two birds with one stone as there won't be a nice big noise for the horse (so he's less likely to get the attention that he seems to have learned that kicking gives) and it may protect your walls!

 

[JanetGeorge]

I've done all the retraining as far as her riding is concerned and she is getting on great. Her ridden work is no longer the problem, just her kicking. I have thought of using electric tape but I was worried she might get tangled in it, but its certainly worth a try.

That IS wierd! Is her kicking consistent throughout her cycle? Does she kick at you - or at other horses when out in company - or while being ridden in the manege - or is it only fences/stable walls etc.

If she kicks at anything- and everything - much or all of the time, then I would be looking for a pain issue (probably ovary related) or possibly ulcers. If it's just in the field/stable - and only inanimate objects - then I'm stumped (and I don't say that very often!) Although depending on the nature of the kicking, guido16's suggestion is worth considering: leg mites will normally cause stamping rather than kicking - but mares often write their own rules. Is she bedded on straw?

 

[Kallibear]

If it's just in the field/stable - and only inanimate objects - then I'm stumped (and I don't say that very often!) Although depending on the nature of the kicking, guido16's suggestion is worth considering: leg mites will normally cause stamping rather than kicking - but mares often write their own rules. Is she bedded on straw?

Ditto it being odd if the above is true.

What's her attitude like when she's kicking out? If she frustrated? Angry? Agressive? Bored? Excited? If you could work out how she's feeling you can hopefully find the cause and solve it.

The othe thing, other than mites, that would be a simple fix if: have you cleaned her udders recently? It sounds really stupid but I know one mare who have vets baffled for ages: she used to destroy fences itching on them, look like she was colicing, kick out at hard surfaces and hump her bum up in a really weird movements. She was examined from head to tail and couldn't find anything wrong, until she had the soft skin between the udders cleaned, where she was all crusty like many mares. The itch had been driving her insane!

 

[Baggybreeches]

Good advice from the last 2 posters, but FWIW I don't have a problem with shooting quirky/dangerous horses,although this one doesn't sound that bad.
I am sure you will check for mites, but another thing my mare has really scabby itchy back legs she always has had and these cause herto stamp when she is particularly bothered by them!

 

[x_Fiona_x]

I have decided to sell her on as I dont have the time nor money to retrain her and its not fair on any of us to continue the way things are. She needs someone who has lots of time and experience, neither of which I have. She is only the second youngster I have had and I didnt have any problems with the other, I dont have any experience with problem horses at all. I am right in the middle of my exams and with 3 other horses and various other commitments I just dont have the time to sort out her problems. I will make sure that whoever buys her knows of her problems, both past and present, even if it means selling her at a price far less than she is worth. I really think this is the best option for my girl, even if it will break my heart to see my goreous girl go. Thanks for all your advice, it is much appreciated.