Rural Payments agency and Highland cows

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StoptheCavalry

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Hello

Just wondering if anyone has experience with the rural payments agency. I am unsure as to whether we are eligible due to our small size and if it is worth claiming. We have 2 highland cows as pets and do not breed. Does this immediately discount us?

Any information would be gratefully received.

Thank you :)
 
The number of cows is irrelevant, SFP is based on the acreage, so, how many acres have you got? And have you or the land got any entitlements, or would you have to buy them in?
 
I thought the days of registration are over, that nobody can apply to include land which isn't already recorded for SFP with them? I know there was a closing date originally, have they changed that now?
 
Maesfen said:
I thought the days of registration are over, that nobody can apply to include land which isn't already recorded for SFP with them? I know there was a closing date originally, have they changed that now?
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But there is still a market for entitlements, so if you have land which does not have entitlements you can buy them and claim SFP, but the market is still strong even with CAP reform entitlements are currently trading at £215-220/hectare.
 
That's as bad as the buying of quotas was! I take it you would still need a holding number to be able to buy though which is perhaps OP needs to check, whether their land is actually registered with a holding number before they can proceed?
 
Maesfen said:
That's as bad as the buying of quotas was! I take it you would still need a holding number to be able to buy though which is perhaps OP needs to check, whether their land is actually registered with a holding number before they can proceed?
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You would need a holding number to buy entitlements, but then again, you need one to keep cows ;) So I presume OP already has one. Interestingly, you don't really need land to get a holding number :o you just ring up RPA with an address and they send you one :eek:
 
Maesfen said:
That's as bad as the buying of quotas was! I take it you would still need a holding number to be able to buy though which is perhaps OP needs to check, whether their land is actually registered with a holding number before they can proceed?
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Well the OP would need a CPH number as they are keeping livestock, but wouldn't think you need them to trade in entitlements as you don't need a CPH number if you are solely arable.
 
martlin said:
You would need a holding number to buy entitlements, but then again, you need one to keep cows ;) So I presume OP already has one. Interestingly, you don't really need land to get a holding number :o you just ring up RPA with an address and they send you one :eek:
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That is for everyone in the country who decided to keep "micro pigs" in their house as a cute alternative to a dog not realising that livestock requires a CPH number..! :eek:
 
RunToEarth said:
That is for everyone in the country who decided to keep "micro pigs" in their house as a cute alternative to a dog not realising that livestock requires a CPH number..! :eek:
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It is a bit of a shambles, at one point, I found myself having 3 holding numbers, where all I wanted was to update the correspondence address, so the tones of dead trees (aka handbooks ;)) come to my OH's office...:rolleyes:
 
Hi everyone

Thank you for your replies, I will briefly explain our situation. I keep horses and so it is presumed at work I know about all livestock...... The highland cows are my bosses and are pets. His land accounts to approximately 4 acres although we are currently in the process of sourcing more land to give the current fields a rest.

Stupid question... what do you mean by entitlements? As you may now have noticed, I don't know much about land management as it has never really been something I have had to deal with until now..... don't get me started on the white peacocks.....
 
StoptheCavalry said:
Hi everyone

Thank you for your replies, I will briefly explain our situation. I keep horses and so it is presumed at work I know about all livestock...... The highland cows are my bosses and are pets. His land accounts to approximately 4 acres although we are currently in the process of sourcing more land to give the current fields a rest.

Stupid question... what do you mean by entitlements? As you may now have noticed, I don't know much about land management as it has never really been something I have had to deal with until now..... don't get me started on the white peacocks.....
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When you buy land you either buy it with or without entitlements. These entitlements allow you to claim Single Farm Payment.
 
Right, if you have 4 acres, it's all academic, because as far as I know, it's too small to claim Single Farm Payment on it (you need a minimum of 3 hectares, which is 8.5acres, roughly).
The land has to be eligible and have ''entitlements'' on it. I find it incredibly difficult to explain what an entitlement is, but I'm sure RTE will help here ;) What it boils down to, is that it would have to have been registered for SFP before, or you can buy entitlement units on the open market.
As I said, though, it is not really that important, because you don't have enough land.
there you go:
http://rpa.defra.gov.uk/rpa/index.nsf/0/c8c90f8597779d3f80257841005112c8/$FILE/SPS%20Handbook%202011and%202012%20v2.0.pdf

some of RPA's tree murdering scheme to peruse for you :)
 
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RunToEarth said:
When you buy land you either buy it with or without entitlements. These entitlements allow you to claim Single Farm Payment.
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Ah right, thank you very much I will go and pester someone else to see if that was included in the purchase of the property.So to clarify we could claim if we had entitlements but not if we don't. To be honest I'm not so certain its worth the hassle as it only equates to around £200.

Out of interest what do the actually entitlements mean?
 
StoptheCavalry said:
Ah right, thank you very much I will go and pester someone else to see if that was included in the purchase of the property.So to clarify we could claim if we had entitlements but not if we don't. To be honest I'm not so certain its worth the hassle as it only equates to around £200.

Out of interest what do the actually entitlements mean?
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My link doesn't seem to work, but if you copy and paste it into your browser, it will come up with SFP handbook for last year, it explains about entitlements etc, also gives you some other things you might want to read.
 
martlin said:
My link doesn't seem to work, but if you copy and paste it into your browser, it will come up with SFP handbook for last year, it explains about entitlements etc, also gives you some other things you might want to read.
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That's great thank you so much. we had been advised around £200 per hectare (ours comes to about 1.3 something) but couldn't see a minimum acreage anywhere. I will have a read through for future reference.

I knew I would find my answer here, thank you very much everyone :D
 
well, it's basically 280 Euro less modulation :)
Of course, it's a bit more complicated than that, but isn't it always with DEFRA/RPA/insert other official body?
For ease of calculation, we generally assume around £70 per acre, per year.
Have a look also at Rural England for the Stewardship Schemes, the entry level pays around £30 per acre for, well, doing nothing at all, lol. The general consensus is that all the subsidies will eventually be environmentally linked in one way or another, so if you have a hedge, or a ditch, or some trees, it might be worth getting in there ;) You get a form to fill, with a points system, you get your first 30 points for filling the form, and it doesn't have to be done right :D
 
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If you can't be bothered with the hassle of entitlements/ claiming and don't have enough land you might be able to find a local farmer with more entitlements than land.

We have land but no entitlements and had a knock on the door from a local farmer - we 'rent' him the land on the one day a year that you need to have access to the land to be able to make the claim (May time I think) and he pays us about 1/2 the claim in rent.
 
Polos Mum said:
If you can't be bothered with the hassle of entitlements/ claiming and don't have enough land you might be able to find a local farmer with more entitlements than land.

We have land but no entitlements and had a knock on the door from a local farmer - we 'rent' him the land on the one day a year that you need to have access to the land to be able to make the claim (May time I think) and he pays us about 1/2 the claim in rent.
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SHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Don't admit to it on the internet :D
 
Polos Mum said:
Opps sorry - contract was drawn up by big local agricultural estate agents so thought it was a common loophole.

Backs out of thread!!
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HAHA whoops!! Thanks for all the info though will have to revisit once we have more land and hope that no more animals are thrown into the mix!! I know there are many reasons for having all the formal forms and procedures etc but it's very confusing when you only have 2 pet highland cows on your own land and no intention of ever having them leave.
 
StC leave it alone it is not worth the work. You could in theroy(sp) end up with inspections from RPA, farm assurance, trading standards to name but 3. Ok it is unlikely but not impossible.
Oh and also TB testing every year if you do not all ready do that.
 
Polos Mum said:
Opps sorry - contract was drawn up by big local agricultural estate agents so thought it was a common loophole.

Backs out of thread!!
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Yikes that is a bit naughty of them, you're really not meant to do that!

I think Martlin has explained everything, we usually take the view that unless you have over circa20acres it really is not worth the hassle of dredging through the paperwork, which can be quite ridiculous to say the least.
 
Well, as to the pet cows, they already should be registered with BCMS, tagged and TB tested, and to be honest here, pets or no pets, I don't see a reason anybody should be excluded from that.
 
martlin said:
Well, as to the pet cows, they already should be registered with BCMS, tagged and TB tested, and to be honest here, pets or no pets, I don't see a reason anybody should be excluded from that.
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I think all cattle born after Jan 1998 regardless of their purpose have to be tagged in each ear, registered and have a passport - goes without saying really?
 
martlin said:
Well, as to the pet cows, they already should be registered with BCMS, tagged and TB tested, and to be honest here, pets or no pets, I don't see a reason anybody should be excluded from that.
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No I understand the need for them to be registered and properly vaccinated etc but there is a lot of form filling in for the extra bits. What seems a bit odd is I thought the most serious parts are pretty easy to organise.

Actually on the subject of TB testing and vaccinating... we had been told by DEFRA (after I contacted them) that they would be sending us a letter and arrange for someone to come out to make sure we were following all the correct movement procedures etc. This hasn't yet happened although I understand the wave of testing hasn't yet happened in our area. Should I chase them up or do these things just take time?
 
RunToEarth said:
I think all cattle born after Jan 1998 regardless of their purpose have to be tagged in each ear, registered and have a passport - goes without saying really?
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You would be surprised! It goes without saying, we think, but well, are we sure? I mean, if you have a holding number and flock number, you would automatically get RPA handbook sent to you every year ;)
 
RunToEarth said:
Yikes that is a bit naughty of them, you're really not meant to do that!

I think Martlin has explained everything, we usually take the view that unless you have over circa20acres it really is not worth the hassle of dredging through the paperwork, which can be quite ridiculous to say the least.
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My thoughts exactly the form is VERY long and the guide to fill it in is even longer. Think we will just accept they are not eligible and leave it at that. The cows are properly tagged and registered etc it's just the extra bits and bobs that you can sign up for that has surprised me. Can't imagine how much work it must take to run a large farm.
 
StoptheCavalry said:
No I understand the need for them to be registered and properly vaccinated etc but there is a lot of form filling in for the extra bits. What seems a bit odd is I thought the most serious parts are pretty easy to organise.

Actually on the subject of TB testing and vaccinating... we had been told by DEFRA (after I contacted them) that they would be sending us a letter and arrange for someone to come out to make sure we were following all the correct movement procedures etc. This hasn't yet happened although I understand the wave of testing hasn't yet happened in our area. Should I chase them up or do these things just take time?
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With the TB testing, you get a letter from DEFRA/Animal Health well in advance with your deadline, a letter is also sent to your registered vets.
Inspections are generally also arranged in advance, they send you a letter with a date on which they will turn up.
 
StoptheCavalry said:
Can't imagine how much work it must take to run a large farm.
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More form filling than you would ever imagine, a lot of people pull funny faces when we tell them that even grain needs a passport.

The SFP & ELS/HLS takes the most time, which is why they are usually delegated to us land agents, although my OH and my dad who are both farmers seem to think I'm going to do them a favour this year...

Paperwork is absolutely pants, especially when diaries get left in the farm office and are returned to the house covered in cow muck! :D
 
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