Sabs?

[dwi]

I'm not trying to start a huge bunfight here, genuinely curious to know. I went drag hunting last year and really enjoyed it so I want to get out more this year but my local hunt is Atherstone which is more traditional. OH is uncomfortable about me going because he thinks there'll be loads of sabs and it'll have an unpleasant atmosphere and I could be put in danger. I'd like him to drive me ideally and then foot follow but he, understandably, doesn't want to get grief.

Whats it like?

 

[Brontie]

Well, As I have never hunted before. I can only suggest, googling hunt sabs and then having a look at there methods. By reading theese sites it will give you an insight into what the sabs do and aim to achieve. If you would like a few links, feel free to pm me.



For the beneficial fact of a few.
No I am NOT a sab.

 

[CrazyMare]

I'm in Leicestershire, althought I don't hunt with the Atherstone, I've never really encountered sabs - maybe it is beaucse of the distance from big cities?

 

[kirstyhen]

I think real Sabs are fairly rare, Antis on the other hand are quite common. Ive encountered quite a few, but in general they are just "monitoring", it's really only the Huntsman and Field Master that need to worry (I think!).
The first time I met Antis was out with the Quorn, and apart from nearly hurtling into a hedge in their white van they didn't cause too much problem! The second time was with CVFH and although they disrupted the day alot, they didn't catch up with us long enough to cause any problems!
The Field Master will tell you if they have any reason to worry about Sabs/Antis and will also tell you to ignore them!
I wouldn't worry too much, just go and ignore them and have fun! And tell you OH to do the same!!

 

[Ravenwood]

Please don't let them put you off - don't let them win.

As already said above we have "hunt monitors" who video every bloody thing - even kids just sitting on their ponies

But I have never seen any violence.

 

[Brontie]

As already said above we have "hunt monitors" who video every bloody thing - even kids just sitting on their ponies

Hold on? (Hopes ive read this right) Are anti's/Sabs recording young children? Im pretty sure this is illegal without concent.

 

[skewbaldpony]

Totally illegal, and I should have them for it, if I were you. After all, we do like to see the law kept within, don't we? How do we know they are not paedophiles disguised as antis? Following kids around with a camera? I don't think so.
What are these people on, anyway?
Even supposing their cause was a good one, lets say comparable to the abolition of slavery (which it demonstrably isn't) - should we still have little nerds with cameras following everyone who employs household staff, JUST IN CASE?
It's a flagrant infringement of human rights and civil liberties, and they should be dealt with accordingly.

 

[pelly]

Never met sabs out Hunting but my cousin and his mate were. His mate went more then scott.
Lukes greatest feat inhis life was breaking a horses leg with a Baseball Bat, So be aware.

I used to Hunt but witha small "farmers" Pack in Devon

 

[Chestnut_filly14]

I'm shocked - I just goggled Sabs etc. and some horrendous "tips" came up, mainly to do with disguising the scent laid out [legally] by hunts now hunting within the law!

It seems as if paranoia has set in... and the really nasty sabs are convinced all hunts are mercilessly murdering not only foxes, but rabbits and puppies and kittens and even human children. Okay, maybe not the last one... [or maybe so? ]

One even suggested throwing things such as bricks at the hunt masters horse etc.!!! :shocked: I am shocked and appalled!

Em
x

 

[skewbaldpony]

oh yes, they love animals sooooo much. Not. They are all just inadequate losers.

 

[Ravenwood]

Unfortunately there is nothing that can be done. The hunt is classed as a public event and therefore there is nothing to stop anyone filming (I have looked into it) unless they go onto private land.

 

[peakpark]

Unfortunately there is nothing that can be done. The hunt is classed as a public event and therefore there is nothing to stop anyone filming (I have looked into it) unless they go onto private land.

I think a landowner is using the private land thing to try to prevent 'monitors' from coming on private land, but the case has been adjourned as it was discovered that the judge due to hear the case had been a labour MP who had spoken out vehemently against hunting.

 

[wrighty]

I almost thought that this thread was going to say something different, it started well with some good advice but then turned into the normal paranoid ramblings of the poor old hunters.

YES, there are monitors who film the hunts to either ensure they stay within the law or evidence the law being broken but you (Hunters in general) have to start on about the "dangerous act" of filming children and then claiming it is illigal to do it or that the people doing the filming are doing it for some sexual reason.

Can't you (Hunters again) get it through your heads that the monitors are doing it for a valid reason, just as your (hunters/Pro's) video monitors to record any breaches of the law.
Would you say that a Pro who taped a 14yr old Anti was doing it for sexual reasons or just that they were doing their bit to protect what they believe in?

As for the argument about Sabs/ALF (the list could go on and on) harming animals to stop the hunts, if anyone does see this then report it JUST LIKE I WOULD as these people are not there to protect the wildlife or animlas.

You (hunters again) always seem to tar everyone with the same brush and steroetype people, Anti, Sab, ALF etc are the same in your eyes and are only there to from the cities to hug trees, eat tofu and pick on the hunts and their followers for no reason, this is b******s just as much as every Anti thinks that all Pros are rich toffs, educated at Eton and spend all their spare time shooting puppies and kittens.

One last thing, please check up on the law before stating something is illegal as you may cause problems between the people you give advice to and others doing something totally legal,any self respecting Anti/Minitor would know what is and is not illegal (I know for a fact I do) so could cause a lot of trouble if anything is done to them.
("Im pretty sure this is illegal without concent." - "Totally illegal, and I should have them for it, if I were you." - "Unfortunately there is nothing that can be done. The hunt is classed as a public event and therefore there is nothing to stop anyone filming (I have looked into it) unless they go onto private land.")


Oh, sorry, another last bit.
I've been away for a while (No, not in prison or living in a teepee eating grass) but back now

 

[Ravenwood]

One last thing, please check up on the law before stating something is illegal as you may cause problems between the people you give advice to and others doing something totally legal,any self respecting Anti/Minitor would know what is and is not illegal (I know for a fact I do) so could cause a lot of trouble if anything is done to them.
("Im pretty sure this is illegal without concent." - "Totally illegal, and I should have them for it, if I were you." - "Unfortunately there is nothing that can be done. The hunt is classed as a public event and therefore there is nothing to stop anyone filming (I have looked into it) unless they go onto private land.")

Sorry, I don't understand this last comment - what is your take on this? I am interested to hear from an Anti's point of view - what benefit do you get out of filming children sitting on their ponies whilst out hunting and nothing is happening at the time?

 

[wrighty]

I see no point in filming youngsters, pro or anti, if they are not breaking any laws but we know it happens on both sides.

My comments were a warning about giving out advice that could get others into trouble eg "Totally illegal, and I should have them for it, if I were you.", this could result in many outcomes including assault, injury, wrongful arrest and police involvement on the person who acts on the advice given.

 

[kirstyhen]

I see no real reason for the "Hunt Monitors" to film the field, whether they are young or old, as they can't actually break the law (apart from laws unrelated to the hunting act obviously!).


But as I stated to the OP before, ignore anyone who is a sab/anti, you are not breaking the law, therefore you have nothing to worry about. Enjoy your day and don't worry, the chances of you meeting a real "sab" are fairly slim! As are the chances of anyone throwing bricks at your horse/breaking their legs with a baseball bat.

 

[skewbaldpony]

So, Child Protection has no meaning on the hunting field? There are guidelines at any other sporting event, and if I saw someone taking photos of my children, I would be not happy. Thre is no way a child out with the hunt can possibly break the law, and therefore, I can't see that it is OK for anyone to take photos of them.
Are you saying that some perv could come out taking photos of children, and provided he said 'I'm a concerend anti, I'm a Monitor' it would be OK? I don't think so.
It's a very different thing than monitoring Hunt Staff.
You may be right that it's legal, but I would doubt if a child protection officer would think so.

 

[wrighty]

Skew, are you obsessed with making out everyone with a camera a "perv" or just trying to make out Antis to be sexual preditors?

As I said earler there is no need for ANYONE to be filming youngsters, I have seen people following the hunts taping young antis, does that make them pervs?

Going with the thread and the bad advice given I ADVISE you not to take any action yourself against anyone with a camera near your children, if you are concerned contact the police as they know the law better than most, if you take action yourself you could be arrested for it.

 

[Fairynuff]

All of this is making me want to become PRO again. Its all gotten so silly and without sense that tbh I cant be arsed with the whole story any more. Pros, do what you must-anti's stop bloody whinging and do something positive. Me? Im off to refill my glass and I spit in your 'collective eyes'. Just get on with life and be happy. M.

 

[Serenity087]

Right now, I'd like to see the justification the monitors have for filming children. As has been said, they cannot break the law, so they do not need to be on film.

If it's not about intimidating the next generation into not going hunting anymore (which is flawed, have these people not SEEN your average hunting pony club mother?) then that does leave their actions open to sinister interpretations.

At the end of a season, a monitor could easily have hours of footage of children in tight, white breeches, with no purpose for it under the "hunt monitor" facade.

So, could any hunt monitors please let us know the purpose for this footage, and allow us to be reassured you're not using it for sinister purposes?

 

[wrighty]

Are you not reading my comments??
Pros and Antis tape different people, including young and old for whatever reasons.
Cant we all agree that it isnt needed and it shouldnt happen on either side of the argument.

Some on here are obsessed with this issue when it is probably easier to obtain pics of ANYONE wearing ANYTHING or NOTHING without having to follow people on horses.
Some are using this as an excuse to put down the "opposition" and making them out to be something thay are not.

Why can't people, on both sides stick to the arguments for and against klling animals for fun/pest control/etc without using dirty tricks and comments.
I assume that even though some people on both sides may be wife beating, animal harming thugs who will do anything to get thier points across, the majority of us (On both sides) are willing to discuss the options open to us.

Questions like "So, could any hunt monitors please let us know the purpose for this footage, and allow us to be reassured you're not using it for sinister purposes?" can be asked to the hunt supporters as well, lets get back to the issues and stop the smear campaigns.

 

[Fairynuff]

I think that the answer to your last question is.....its intimidation, filming NOTHING apart from people sitting on horses having a fag,sandwich or a good old gossip, can serve no other purpose. Im anti/ish and my stance is........not taking part, full stop. Those who want to continue hunting can do so, those who dont, well, dont! Is it so difficult? Mairi.
OH god, how I miss it! :crazy:

 

[Serenity087]

One has to ask who started the smear campaign in the first place. You never hear of sabs berated by potential clients after sex, or animal rights activists being hounded out of town after being outed as paedophiles.

Which is interesting if you think about it. The animal rights movement has more photographic images of underage children than their victims.

Perhaps its about time the table was turned and we outed them.

Mairi - My stance you well know - I'll go because I like it, I'll support sabs who protest peacefully or sab sensibly against something they disaprove, and I respect those who don't go for not liking it.
Its the violence that I can't stand!

 

[wrighty]

"Perhaps its about time the table was turned and we outed them."
I think there is a saying about and eye for an eye.


"Its the violence that I can't stand!"
I too don't agree with violence and will do something about it if I see it, no matter who is doing it.
As you've probably read I don't agree with intimidation or smear,both sides need to stop it.

 

[MooMoo]

To be fair I think there has been wrong doing on both sides. Neither side is innocent, I don't think anyone's doing themselves any favours - regardless of whether they're pro or anti - by bringing violence into this.
As long as hunts operate fully within the law then there should be no problem - there's no need to disrupt that, of course people will want to monitor this and they should be able to do so in a respectable way.

 

[combat_claire]

The last time I was monitored was about 2 years ago - they came across us out with the beagles and despite being on private farmland followed us for hours, taking pictures of me - bearing in mind that I was not hunt staff, I was not carrying a whip or in any official capacity. They were asked to leave the land and declined, so our day of legal activity ended early. It was a bit creepy to have them snapping away, but I wish I could have seen the results - I think they got a nice one of me crossing the brook with a beagle under my arm!

In 4 years there has been one conviction that was over turned on appeal and only one other that has been sustained. Two or three others are adjourned awaiting clarification on the point of law. The anti-hunting side likes using poaching offences as convictions under the Hunting Act, but the fact is that they could still have been prosecuted post-ban.

It seems to me to be a case of sour grapes, the Hunting Act was a bit of a let down, the red coats still ride out, the hounds have survived and hunting activity remains within the law.

 

[Tharg]

Where have you been combat_claire?

 

[combat_claire]

Hiding on Liam's hunting forum!! Good to be back!