Sacroillic pain and suspensory ligaments

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CeeCee

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Feeling at my wits end with my poor little mare.... Not sure if i'm looking for answers or just shoulders to cry on :(

3-4 months ago she was diagnosed with sacroilliac injury, first lot of cortisone injections were unsuccessful, these were done along side intensive physio. Second set of injections were given again with physio and the instruction to bring her back into work after three weeks and if no or little improvement to work her hard on bute to improve the muscle in order to support the sacro. Vet was also slightly concerned about her off side hind and nerve blocked the hock, this improved very slightly so he administered cortisone into the hock, he mentioned in passing it might possibly be a problem with the suspensory ligament. To add she has never been lame and was also sound on the flexion tests.

Sooo after the three weeks work commenced and she didn't feel great so bute has been given for the last two weeks, in that time she has felt very good and has been working correctly, surely a sign of her getting stronger...

The last couple of days she hasn't felt quite right with a funny "hop" when trotting, but she just doesn't feel the same way as when she was in pain with the sacro, after some searching around on the internet i came across a few articles of suspensory ligament damage possibly causing sacro pain and i'm now wondering weather this has been the problem all along.

To make matter's worse i've moved areas and hence moved vets making the whole situation more difficult and stressful for me.

She's a lovely mare that I really want to do right by, I bought her to event with and this now seems like the impossible. Obviously I have the new vet coming to see her but felt like i needed to vent and see if anyone has had a similar experience.

Thanks for listening :)
 
feel for you, suspensories can be a problem, my horse has had these issues, we did eventually sorted them out, but took forever, since i have constantly had his back checked and checked to keep his sacroiliac area happy, wonder if the 2 are linked.
there is a vet who takes on these types or problems, will try and find his name
 
My friends horse had very similar issues and was injected in his sacrum and was operated on both hind suspensories to de nerve them at Newmarket, After a long and careful recuperation of walking in hand and long reining for months and months she started to get back to Novice dressage (a couple of years ago) but now he has had to give up dressage as he cannot cope with lateral work with his sacroiliac joint playing up again.
 
HI.

Sorry to hear about your horse.

Sadly my story is not positive. My mare was only 5 and didn't really like going into a contact, but thought it was just babyness. Some days she was beautiful other days didn't want to know. She also ground her teeth a lot. Everyone said she was just being a mare, but to cut a long story short did investigations and she was diagnosed with sacro-iliac problems, combined with proximal suspensory desmitis in both hindlimbs. She had started to run in trot, bunny hop in canter and run after fences. Sadly, she is now a lawn mower. They are hard to rehabilitate with this combination, because susp problems need rest and then walking in straight lines, whereas pelvic problems need the work to build up topline and muscle to support it. I was basically given 10% chance of recovery and had no insurance money left for surgery.

I would def get your new vet to look at suspensories as they can go hand in hand.

Hope you have a good outcome.
 
Thanks mjcssjw2, will have a google and see what I can find.

Bobbly: This is exactly what i'm worried about, she just seems to be very weak, talented I may add but possibly prone to such problems. She's only 7 and a eventing career seems very unlikely now.
 
sare_bear said:
HI.

Sorry to hear about your horse.

Sadly my story is not positive. My mare was only 5 and didn't really like going into a contact, but thought it was just babyness. Some days she was beautiful other days didn't want to know. She also ground her teeth a lot. Everyone said she was just being a mare, but to cut a long story short did investigations and she was diagnosed with sacro-iliac problems, combined with proximal suspensory desmitis in both hindlimbs. She had started to run in trot, bunny hop in canter and run after fences. Sadly, she is now a lawn mower. They are hard to rehabilitate with this combination, because susp problems need rest and then walking in straight lines, whereas pelvic problems need the work to build up topline and muscle to support it. I was basically given 10% chance of recovery and had no insurance money left for surgery.

I would def get your new vet to look at suspensories as they can go hand in hand.

Hope you have a good outcome.
Click to expand...

Hit the nail on the head! Only half an hour ago i was saying to my husband if it's a suspensory problem she'll need rest where as the sacro needs work! Catch 22....

I've had the same problem with the contact for a while, myself and two instructors put it down to schooling issues until i could no longer use it as an excuse and that's when the vet was called and the diagnosis given.
 
My horse has PSD and DJD, and was tight over the sacroiliac area - vet reckoned it was as a result of guarding his sore hindlegs. He had H-wave under sedation on Tuesday, focusing mainly on the sacroiliac area - and he's like a different horse today. He's normally quite tight around the back end, and walks a bit like he's wearing a full nappy - but the muscles of his hindquarters were soft enough that I could wobble his bottom (he loved it - bottom lip went all floppy!!) and is marching round the field like a goodun. I'm definitely doing it more often - lovely to see him so relaxed and comfortable.
 
I am in a very similar place to you at the moment and have pretty much been in tears the whole time since the vet finally diagnosed bilateral suspensory problems in my beautiful boy on Monday.
He has just never really performed as expected despite me spending hours hacking to build up strength and spending £££££ on lessons for us both and regularly having his back done. (I have rotated between Mctimmony, "normal" Chiro and Bowen)
Because he never looked lame behind and had fairly regular interruptions in his schooling for on-off front leg lameness (Due to shoe loss and hoof bruising) my questions about his soundness behind were dismissed by everyone I asked. Including 2 very good instructors the vet and all my horsey friends. To the point where I felt in the end that it was actually my lack of skill as a rider that was causing his problems.
Then a couple of months ago he had an accident in the field and though on first inspection he looked completely unscathed in the following weeks his issues got more and more pronounced.
Initially he just seemed sore in his back. So a course of 3 Bowen treatments followed and after each one he would seem better for a couple of days and then problems would start to show again. Eventually it wasn't just physical issues though. He had become very nappy and the final straw for me was when he refused to leave the yard for a hack.
I should point out that his lameness was still very mild to almost un-noticeable to the untrained eye. It was more a feeling of a lack of power and occaisionally going disunited in canter in corners.
The first vet called said that though he was very sore in his SI this was most definatley secondary to his left hind leg lameness which was positive on flexion.
There followed a series of nerve blocks and x rays and over the course of 2 months he was diagnosed and treated with steroid injections and HA into both fetlocks for o/a of the left hind fetlock and pastern and had a course of Chiro for his SI.
Of course initially this seemed to have worked but as soon as I introduced canter into his schooling the problems started again.
The vet came back and decided it must be his hock so xrayed that. When the xrays were (thankfully) inconclusive he came back and finally offered to scan his suspensory's.
I honestly don't think he expected to find anything.
However, he did and now I have not a clue what the future holds for us. So OP I can definately sympathise with you as it is the not knowing which is the worst.
For what it is worth I have been told that I should not consider the denerving op as an option. According to my vet he is unhappy with the long term outcome for several cases where the op has been done. Apparently he feels it's a very short term fix.
My vet has consulted with Sue Dyson at the AHT and she has seen his scans.
On Monday my vet injected his hocks with steriods which as he still suspected there might be changes in the hocks would help with that but would also leach to the suspensory ligaments and offer some help there too.
I have been told to begin 10-15 minutes of in hand walking which should gradually increase and begin working him as if I am beginnning a top line rebuiliding program.
I think the theory behind this is that if I can build a framework of muscles that will make George work correctly he will not be putting undue strain on his suspensory ligaments thus giving them a chance to recover. In a couple of weeks he is to have the Chiro again and at this stage we will consider some shockwave and possibly injecting his SI.
I have absolutley no idea at this stage of what the likely outcome is to be for us. At this stage I care nothing for the dressage path that I had originally desired and will be eternally happy if I can just have my boy for happy hacking with maybe the odd showing class.
OP, if you would like a cyber shoulder to cry on or to compare notes with through this you can always pm me.
Whatever your eventual diagnosis I wish us both (and anyone else dealing with this problem) lots and lots of luck.
N.
 
CeeCee said:
Hit the nail on the head! Only half an hour ago i was saying to my husband if it's a suspensory problem she'll need rest where as the sacro needs work! Catch 22....

I've had the same problem with the contact for a while, myself and two instructors put it down to schooling issues until i could no longer use it as an excuse and that's when the vet was called and the diagnosis given.
Click to expand...

Where in the country are you? I used a holistic vet at Higham near Newmarket called Donna Blinman to treat my WB with chronic SI dysfunction. I got LOU for him and after Donna's treatment and some physio and 10 months turnaway he is sound and coming back into work.

Donna mobilised my boy's sacrum - she is osteopath and acupuncture trained as well as a vet. I really did not want to have to keep him super fit to support the area and Donna said after the treatment he should not need to be kept fit - he should self heal and he has. She really gets to the root cause of a problem (as any good holistic vet will). I think if your horse's suspensories are healed then everything else will follow. My horse's SI dysfunction was his primary problem likely from a field accident - the unfortunate thing was that it was left untreated for 3 years.

http://www.donnablinman.co.uk/
 
Nickles1973:
Our situations do seem very similar, heart breaking isn't it... Your vets do seem very on the ball to try and get your situation resolved. Those two weeks I had of her working correctly were amazing and i thought finally... she's fixed! The whole thing just seems to be dragging on, I hate feeling like I might be doing the wrong things and making the pain worse.

I really don't know if the operation would be an option for me anyway, with all her treatment i'm very close to my insurance limit and have no idea if they would say the op would fall under her sacro condition, they do like to try and get out of these things dont they. As much as i would like money to not be a considering factor, unfortunatly it is..

I feel awful at how bitter this is making me feel, i begged to my husband for four years to get what I thought was my dream horse for it all to come crashing down. My friends are out enjoying themselves at competitions and yet again i'm left at home. Gosh, hate how that sounds but I really want to be out doing things :(

I do hope George makes a full recovery and that you can enjoy the dressage you wanted to do. Thank you for taking the time to respond with your experience, it is nice to feel i'm not alone.

Yasandcrystal:
I'm now located in surrey, I think my next port of call is having the suspensories properly scanned to find if this is the root cause. She feels much much better in the sacro area after the second set of injections and the bute, before she was physically flinching when I even just brushed that area. I have been shown by the physio how to use a tens machine on her to help with the pain and she also has a magnectic rug, along side the physio she has also had Mctimmoney treatment. So as you can see i've done all I can for the sacro area. Obviously for a long time I just thought that was the only issue, now it seems it's secondary to something else.

Auslander:
Lovely to here a success story and hope your boy continues to feel the benefit of his treatment. :)
 
CeeCee said:
Auslander:
Lovely to here a success story and hope your boy continues to feel the benefit of his treatment. :)
Click to expand...

Not quite a success story, as I think his suspensories will rule out being able to do much in future, but at 15, and with a great career under his belt - I don't have a problem with him having a nice relaxed semi-retired lifestyle. In terms of sacroiliac comfort though, there is a distinct difference - so I will be continuing to get regular H-wave treatments for him. The initial one was expensive as she was able to do a lot more with him sedated - they reckon that one session under sedation is equivalent to 5 unsedated, but further treatments will be done at home with him unsedated, so hopefully a but less of a hammering on the pocket!
 
Nickles1973 said:
I am in a very similar place to you at the moment and have pretty much been in tears the whole time since the vet finally diagnosed bilateral suspensory problems in my beautiful boy on Monday.
He has just never really performed as expected despite me spending hours hacking to build up strength and spending £££££ on lessons for us both and regularly having his back done. (I have rotated between Mctimmony, "normal" Chiro and Bowen)
Because he never looked lame behind and had fairly regular interruptions in his schooling for on-off front leg lameness (Due to shoe loss and hoof bruising) my questions about his soundness behind were dismissed by everyone I asked. Including 2 very good instructors the vet and all my horsey friends. To the point where I felt in the end that it was actually my lack of skill as a rider that was causing his problems.
Then a couple of months ago he had an accident in the field and though on first inspection he looked completely unscathed in the following weeks his issues got more and more pronounced.
Initially he just seemed sore in his back. So a course of 3 Bowen treatments followed and after each one he would seem better for a couple of days and then problems would start to show again. Eventually it wasn't just physical issues though. He had become very nappy and the final straw for me was when he refused to leave the yard for a hack.
I should point out that his lameness was still very mild to almost un-noticeable to the untrained eye. It was more a feeling of a lack of power and occaisionally going disunited in canter in corners.
The first vet called said that though he was very sore in his SI this was most definatley secondary to his left hind leg lameness which was positive on flexion.
There followed a series of nerve blocks and x rays and over the course of 2 months he was diagnosed and treated with steroid injections and HA into both fetlocks for o/a of the left hind fetlock and pastern and had a course of Chiro for his SI.
Of course initially this seemed to have worked but as soon as I introduced canter into his schooling the problems started again.
The vet came back and decided it must be his hock so xrayed that. When the xrays were (thankfully) inconclusive he came back and finally offered to scan his suspensory's.
I honestly don't think he expected to find anything.
However, he did and now I have not a clue what the future holds for us. So OP I can definately sympathise with you as it is the not knowing which is the worst.
For what it is worth I have been told that I should not consider the denerving op as an option. According to my vet he is unhappy with the long term outcome for several cases where the op has been done. Apparently he feels it's a very short term fix.
My vet has consulted with Sue Dyson at the AHT and she has seen his scans.
On Monday my vet injected his hocks with steriods which as he still suspected there might be changes in the hocks would help with that but would also leach to the suspensory ligaments and offer some help there too.
I have been told to begin 10-15 minutes of in hand walking which should gradually increase and begin working him as if I am beginnning a top line rebuiliding program.
I think the theory behind this is that if I can build a framework of muscles that will make George work correctly he will not be putting undue strain on his suspensory ligaments thus giving them a chance to recover. In a couple of weeks he is to have the Chiro again and at this stage we will consider some shockwave and possibly injecting his SI.
I have absolutley no idea at this stage of what the likely outcome is to be for us. At this stage I care nothing for the dressage path that I had originally desired and will be eternally happy if I can just have my boy for happy hacking with maybe the odd showing class.
OP, if you would like a cyber shoulder to cry on or to compare notes with through this you can always pm me.
Whatever your eventual diagnosis I wish us both (and anyone else dealing with this problem) lots and lots of luck.
N.
Click to expand...

Quite similar to me :(

My horse wasn't right even though people from the ground said he looked fine. Had him lame assessed with the vets thinking they would find start of arthritis in his hocks (which they did) but also hind suspensory problems (both)

He had steroid inj in hocks and a course of shockwave treatments, physio And 3 months down the line I have no insurance money left and he is no better :(

Vet has basically now said it's the deserve op or retire. But obviously the op is at my cost with no insurance left!

Really can't decide what to do :( going to the vets in Monday and hopefully will make a descision then, there are so many positive stories of the op but also some negative?

My head has been in a spin for months about this and I'm still no nearer to making a decision:confused:
 
I found this article when doing my online research for things that might help with healing of psd and S/I strains. http://www.vitaflex.com/res_msmdmso2a.php
The article itself warns that MSM isn't a miracle cure but tbh for £25 a tub I'm willing to give it a go. I bought a tub today from Pegusus health. It's the same purity as the better known brands but costs a bit less.
 
Im no expert, but that hop.....you've described what my mare was doing for months before she finally went very lame. She had her bi lateral de-nerve op in June and has now come back into work. She so far has been sound (touch wood) and is back to her old self, but we still have a long way to travel down the recuperation road as we have only just started to introduce trot! She has never had any trouble with her sacro and has her back checked regularly.
 
Nickles1973 said:
I found this article when doing my online research for things that might help with healing of psd and S/I strains. http://www.vitaflex.com/res_msmdmso2a.php
The article itself warns that MSM isn't a miracle cure but tbh for £25 a tub I'm willing to give it a go. I bought a tub today from Pegusus health. It's the same purity as the better known brands but costs a bit less.
Click to expand...

Interestingly I gave my WB MSM (human strength and doubled the dose) and Bromelain (an extract from pineapples) again human grade double the dose over his rehab period on the recommendation of my Bowen therapist.
 
Nickles1973 said:
I found this article when doing my online research for things that might help with healing of psd and S/I strains. http://www.vitaflex.com/res_msmdmso2a.php
The article itself warns that MSM isn't a miracle cure but tbh for £25 a tub I'm willing to give it a go. I bought a tub today from Pegusus health. It's the same purity as the better known brands but costs a bit less.
Click to expand...

I do already feed equine answers 365 which does have MSM in but would need to check on levels, she also has a joint supplement. Did think about devils claw but was advised against it due to the toxicity on the liver as she is already on bute.
 
Sue Dyson at the AHT, that was who operated on my friends horse, sadly, like yours he is only really comparitively young still (he's a 'horsey' welsh d) less than ten. Originally his movement seemed 'short' behind, not tracking up and unbalanced in canter.
 
If you're still looking for an equine vet:

Emmanuel Engeli is an extraordinarily good vet. I think there's nothing that he doesn't know about the sacroiliac and he's exceptionally good with any lameness issues. He's a genius, takes his time to do an extremely thorough diagnosis (and he's just a really nice guy too!).

He's working as a consultant lameness/poor performance specialist and orthopaedic surgeon at a few equine vet practices in the South of England, including at:

http://www.ladydanevets.com/overview.shtml

which is in Faversham, Kent.
 
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