Sad day - it's Kissing Spines

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A Musing

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Well, today I join that sad (?) group of people who have a horse with kissing spines. I am probably posting a bit too soon as I feel all over the place at the moment as only just found out.

I had been fairly upbeat before today as I'd done a bit of research just in case (and on here!) and can see there are treatment options and prognosis can be good. I am also lucky cos it should be covered by insurance, I have a great yard who I know will help, and lots of friends. I should also be able to cover costs, although it will make a big dent in the savings. And even more important, it's a moderate case apparently, so vet thinks prognosis for recovery and even a return to RC activities is good.

But I can see there are lots of variables, not always a good outcome and, whatever happens, this is the start of a long road of work, care, treatment and uncertainty.

Still getting a few more tests done to rule out anything else. Current suggestion is steroids and physio, possibly tildren and/or shock wave therapy depending on how steroids go. He doesn't think surgery as not a serious case, by this I think he means traditional surgery not the Cotts one so I'm going to ask about this. Have also read a bit about Mesotherapy (?).

I'm after some uplifting experiences please, and an idea of what treatment/exercise rehab plan I am going to be looking at. Be good to know there could be a good outcome from all of this. Poor little horsey :(
 
Sorry to hear that :(

It's not something I have any experience of, bar my neighbour's horse suffering from it, but I'd like to wish you and your horse good luck :)
 
Just X-rays. Is bone scan needed to confirm? Vet doesn't seem to think so and diagnosis is consistent with the recent signs/symptoms. Apart from weight/condition loss which is why she's still having more tests. Out of interest, what would bone scans show? Haven't seen much info on that from the reading I've done so far.
 
A bone scan would show up if there are any "hot spots" on the horse. This would show if the KS is active, or if it's been there a good long time, and other areas are causing the problem. (If you look up posts by ellie_e, you will see what happened to her horse.)
 
A Musing said:
Just X-rays. Is bone scan needed to confirm? Vet doesn't seem to think so and diagnosis is consistent with the recent signs/symptoms. Apart from weight/condition loss which is why she's still having more tests. Out of interest, what would bone scans show? Haven't seen much info on that from the reading I've done so far.
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I would definitely have a bone scan to
(a) rule out any other problems in other areas i.e legs, hocks, stifles, sacral area, neck
(b) to confirm kissing spines are actually causing an issue (many horses x rays show kissing spines but they arent actually a problem)
 
My friend has an ex racer with kissing spines. He had some steroid injections and followed a strict exercise regime 18 months ago. He is now fit as a fiddle, he hunts, jumps, does a bit a dressage. It is the one and only experience I have had so dont know if this is typical.

Good luck with everything OP xx
 
I wish your hadn't got kissing spines as it is a bit of a roller coaster emotions wise, mine had 9 impinging -had two lots of steroids then had the cotts surgery as I didn't want traditional surgery, unfortunately my first referral vet didn't want to use bone scan (so wish he had) horse had surgery at cotts and came out of it well - but now had SI medicated too - not sure without bone scan if SI or hip but well out of insurance now. Doing well but still at a wait and see moment. The back has healed lovely and riding again , she is sound but just not really pushing enough from behind so need to sort now or will be back having issues with spine again.

It is hard but there is a group on Facebook - we share our experiences and support each other. - cant link as on iPad but called horses with kissing spine
 
Cor, nothing's ever straightforward is it?! Vets do seem very one dimensional, test one thing if it isn't that, come back and I'll test something else.

I did ask them to check all over back, SI, pelvis, lameness etc. I will find out exactly what they've done but it seems pretty full on (although not a bone scan) - teeth needed going, bloods taken, has had full lameness work up, xrayed back and now with specialist to check internals (gut function). Will see how we go. Will ask about bone scan too. Thanks.

Brain is going into overload !
 
Well it sounds as though things are moving in the right direction. If your horse has had ongoing problems, the bone scan is probably a good way forwards
 
Not sure if its any help but thought might cheer you up to know their is light at the end of the tunnel my friends event horse was diagnosed with kissing spine last year and was suggested to have the operation!! so did so and 1 month later went back for his checkup all looking good and possitive to find another vertibrae was damanged to had to have a second op cue devastated friend :( BUT second op done week before xmas and she last week was back on board and he's BETTER than ever his mood has severly improved and although he still has a way to go their is a clear improvement in his back much more relaxed and free and is moving much better. Not really any help to you i know but ive been with her every step of the way for this and can honestly say try to keep positive :) xxxxx
 
My horse is 7years post op this month, pre op his behaviour was so bad he was recommended PTS as a 6yr old. He has been sound since the op, copes with being ridden 5days a week, hacks out alone now as well as in company, has started some jumping and can do a creditable novice dressage test when he can be bothered to exert himself! He was always a lovely character underneath the pain but from the second I got back on him after surgery he has coped with everything I asked of him and he is a joy to own (ignoring my recent post where a farrier has messed his feet up so I am about to try barefoot!!!) although he is characterful so we still have the odd hissy fit!

Make sure you do lots of ground work, long reining is great, long and low to stretch the back, use some poles to get him using his abs if you can and take it slowly but surely. Injections didn't work for my horse, a scan may be worthwhile so that you can see which spines are touching where and it can give an indication if there are others that could cause an issue in the future. Ryan had 3 processes cut right under the saddle area, 2 were a problem and 1 had the potential to become a problem.

I have no regrets and my horse is alive and well.

Good luck
 
Thanks everyone. The positive experiences are helping me feel like there is light at the end of the tunnel although we are a long way off at the moment.

Just been talking to the vets and am feeling more positive about the diagnostics if nothing else. They seem to have really kicked into action and I'm lucky that I have the RVC so close - next stage is ultra sound (for weight/condition loss issue), a second round of bloods, re-doing lameness check tomorrow and now she's onto the ortho specialists who will call me to discuss, but bone scan has been mentioned.

I dread to think of the cost but right now I just want to find out what's going on and how we can help her. She's a lovely horse so I want to give her the best chance I can.

Really appreciate all the posts and info. I've joined FB page and will update maybe tomorrow when the battery of tests has been completed ! I think I need to lie down for a bit...
 
My TB (aged 10) was diagnosed with this last August from T12-L3 - too bad to operate on and fairly gloomy prognosis initially. I didn't have any other tests, none were offered and I didn't know enough to ask about them. He had 10 steroid injections (5 each side), a week's rest then physio visits weekly. His physio involved laser & electric pulse treatment and then me doing exercises daily and after 8 weeks lunging using an adapted draw rein system, gradually at first then building up to 15 mins each side with some cantering.

The phsyio then advised me to start riding him (this was early October) and get him really fit before taking him hunting. We had our first (half) day in early December and managed another half dozen, including some long days on the hills - we would have done more but bad weather and mud fever curtailed our outings. After 5 weeks in with mud fever I had the physio out to check him over as I was worried he would be getting stiff and she was thrilled with his muscle tone and general wellbeing. He didn't need any treatment so had a gentle massage instead.

I know I won't have him forever, but after being convinced that it was curtains last summer I'm pleased to have got him as far as I have - the vets at 3 Counties, my vet and the physio all believe that with consistent work along with monitoring and possibly more steroids there are another few years yet. I have to admit to being slightly paranoid about any slight unlevelness or touchiness but so far he seems fine and happy in himself. I can't turn him away for the summer but will go back todoing his exercises and lunging him using his draw reins instead of riding him all the time.

Everyone's experience is very different, but although despair at the moment of diagnosis is all you feel, it isn't always the end.
 
A Musing said:
I'm after some uplifting experiences please, and an idea of what treatment/exercise rehab plan I am going to be looking at. Be good to know there could be a good outcome from all of this. Poor little horsey :(
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MY HORSE HAS KISSING SPINE!!!! AND I LOVE HIM TO BITS!!! He had two processes removed in November and OMG he is amazing now....the rehab was good and I am week 2 of ridden work, and we go water tread milling every week. Best decision I have ever made to have him opperated on. I have a page on facebook come and join horses with kissing spine
I know how you feel it is all really scary and you are entering the unknown. Moose was dreadful before the surgery he tried to kill me.....a few times...now i can get on him and we walk around the school having a chat without any worries which is AMAZING. I have all the pics and stories PLEASE contact me with any questions. HUGE HUG I know how you feel.
 
Hello hello - thought I'd report in with a quick update. Am finding all the info you're posting really helpful. It meant I could have a far more informed discussion with one of the vets (eek, there are a few involved now!) and have a better idea of what they are planning etc.

So far, they've ruled out any obvious internal issues which might have impacted weight/condition loss and are thinking that might be pain related rather than a problem with absorption. Cue me feeling sad again that she's been in pain but has been such a sweetie throughout despite all of this.

Focus is moving back to muscular/skeletal and I suspect she will have a bone scan to check if there are areas other than the back/kissing spine involved. Am talking to orthopeodic specialist tomorrow. He wants to see her ridden. Fortunately not by me!

Funny how quickly you get to acquire knowledge about all of this, many thanks to you lovely HHOers. I managed not to sound like a total numpty.

Am feeling a bit better today. I think I'm in full on diagnostic, 'let's get on with it' mode and am so impressed by the efforts of the RVC to get to the bottom of this.

Will post again if there is more news.
 
I'm watching this thread with interest as my horse is undergoing tests for KS later this week. It's good to hear so many positive outcomes. Hope you get to the bottom of your horse's problems quickly A Musing x
 
Cab - if you're anything like me you will start absoring KS info like a sponge, or you have already!

I hope it's not that for your horse as it's a pretty scary thing to hear, but I've had lots of helpful info and, best of all, positive stories on here so there is hope. And people around who can sympathise with what you're going through. Maybe try annunz's FB page?

I think the big thing I've learned is to keep investigating to check if there is anything else, as there do seem to be other issues that can arise - either caused by the KS or linked to it, like SI or hindlimb lameness. Expensive and needs a good vet (and insurance!) but at the end of this week I should be in a much better position to know what's going on and how best to treat it.
 
A Musing said:
Cab - if you're anything like me you will start absoring KS info like a sponge, or you have already!

I hope it's not that for your horse as it's a pretty scary thing to hear, but I've had lots of helpful info and, best of all, positive stories on here so there is hope. And people around who can sympathise with what you're going through. Maybe try annunz's FB page?

I think the big thing I've learned is to keep investigating to check if there is anything else, as there do seem to be other issues that can arise - either caused by the KS or linked to it, like SI or hindlimb lameness. Expensive and needs a good vet (and insurance!) but at the end of this week I should be in a much better position to know what's going on and how best to treat it.
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I spent such a long time trawling the web for info and I have to say my vets really informed me of everthing which was great good luck and look forward to hearing your news!!!
 
Spavins can be secondary symptom of KS?????? know plenty of horses who have been ridden after spavins have settled with time and rest but think carefully re op for KS as you need to be sure you can perform the rehab which is difficult when your horse is battling other issues. Vets advice I think on which came first and what order you get your horse treated. I think you can gently work with spavins but don't quote me on that!

Very best of luck and a very big well done on getting your horse thoroughly checked before dashing in to a solution.
 
What are his symptoms?

I echo others that have said ask for a bone scan too. I was talked out of a bone scan for my horse as vet said it would take up too much money leaving very little for the actual treatment, and that the KS was so bad (10 impinging and two fused) that his explosive symptoms were bound to be down to the KS.

I got the op done (traditional with the removal of the tops of five spinal processes under standing sedation) and my boy recovered well. Sadly, his explosive reactions continued and I gave up on him after a year. But just 6 weeks ago I decided to try treating him for ulcers. And bingo, his explosive reactions stopped! Sadly, he has just sustained a bad kick to his point of hip and is badly lame at present. Just as I was getting him going again grr!
 
ohh wagtail that is sooo sad!!!!! i am soo sorry!!! I did not have the bone scan as they had xrayed Moose from the feet up and KS is what they found. Fingers crossed your horse makes a speedy recovery wagtail!!!
 
annunziata said:
ohh wagtail that is sooo sad!!!!! i am soo sorry!!! I did not have the bone scan as they had xrayed Moose from the feet up and KS is what they found. Fingers crossed your horse makes a speedy recovery wagtail!!!
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Thank you. I think this horse is just jinxed. :(
 
Lord wagtail you really are having a roller coaster of a time. So sorry but well done on keeping it together (or big virtual hug if you're not).

Bone scan is going ahead. I didn't know anything about spavins and they seem quite serious in a horse of this age/conformation/work load? Am a bit worried about how the treatment options are going to work together and we need to get weight on her quickly too.

But mine sounds like a typical case in a lot of ways as there are a few things going on and all interlinked.

Gut/stomach issues have been ruled out so we're thinking it's skeletal.

Trying not to overthink until we've had all the tests back but you can't help worrying about what it all means and whether I can get her through this. Awful that things like time and cost come into it too, but it's all a bit scary atm.
 
I am sure that you will get her through it. If it's any consolation, my boy has the most terrible spavins, but they don't seem to affect him at all! Good news this afternoon is that the lameness is starting to wear off. In fact, he is loads better than yesterday, so fingers crossed he will be back in action in a couple of weeks, so long as he manages to stay in one piece until then.
 
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