Saddle damaged in tack room.

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356833007

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I'm sorry if this is the wrong section, I wasn't really sure where to post!

So, long story short-ish, the peg which my saddle sits on broke (at a livery yard where my horse is on full livery). When I arrived at the yard the saddle was on the tree in the middle of the room and the peg was hanging off the wall. When I inspected the saddle it had two big, very noticeable graze marks on both the pommel and the cantle. When I finally got to talk to the yard owner about it, she said she had no idea what had happened but had found the peg on the floor (no mention of the saddle) and the she assumed I knew about it. (because I wouldn't tell her the peg had broken if I knew!!) I mentioned the damage to the saddle and she said 'mmmmm, that's unfortunate.'

I'm really angry about this because I'm paying an awful lot for the 'privilege' of having my horse on her yard and yet my equipment is damaged and it is just unfortunate... I don't really know what to do or if there is anything I can do because the saddle isn't broken, just damaged. Has anyone got any advice?
 
I am really sorry about your saddle. I am a yard owner and have a clause in my contracts to say that equipment is kept here at owners risk. That is pretty standard so I would check your contract. The problem is, you cannot prove it was the fault of the YO because another livery could have fallen onto the saddle rack or cause it to fall. I really don't think it is the YOers fault. I would say that if the peg was loose enough to just fall out, you would have noticed it before then and informed the YO?
 
Its an accident, accidents happen. Your YO may know nothing about it, she may have just found it there. But at the end of the day, a saddle will get damaged over time. Feed the saddle several times, over the grazes and they will blend into the patina of the leather as it ages.
 
Get the saddle checked by a saddler before you use it again in case the tree is damaged. There is no point risking that. The saddler may be able to suggest a way to cover up or repair the scratches too. Not really sure what you think the YO could have done - just sounds like an unlucky mishap. Not a nice thing to happen though.
 
I would say it is just one of those things. If the saddle rack was already so loose that it was obviously going to fall out of the wall then that would be a different matter - though I assume in that situation then you would not have use it anyway.
 
I think really it is a culmulation of all the bad experiences we have had at this particular yard. I don't expect her to DO anything and obviously the peg was fine when I left the saddle otherwise I wouldn't have put it on there and I would have told her about it. I have no idea what it says in the contract because although I read it when I signed it I haven't had a copy of it to keep (despite asking on more than one occasion for my own copy) so I have no idea where they stand.

I just feel like an apology. 'I'm so sorry it happened to you' or something like that would have been appropriate. I was also not told about it, which is something I feel they should have addressed if they knew the saddle fell off the peg they should have told me. I just really annoys me because if it were their stuff they would have been devastated but as it is mine they really couldn't give a cr*p.
 
356833007 said:
I just really annoys me because if it were their stuff they would have been devastated but as it is mine they really couldn't give a cr*p.
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The way of the world I'm afraid! It's that 'I'm alright Jack' attitude.

...I would not be on a yard before having a hard copy of a contract in my hands...

With luck, your saddler can probably help you sort the damage out. What about your own insurance? Maybe worth getting to cover for more expensive damage should the need arise?
 
Yes, well like I said it is all a very long and complicated story about how we ended up at this particular yard. Normally I would do the same as you, but in the circumstances I had no choice and have obviously paid for it.
 
I'm sorry your saddle fell down and can understand why you're upset at scratches on it. But isn't saying something is unfortunate a way of emphasising and saying they feel for you? Look at it from the other side, their saddle rack has been broken too... They're not ranting about how people don't look after the facilities provided, its just one of those (unfortunate) things.

It does sound like you don't like being at the yard and would be better looking for somewhere you'd be happier.
 
WelshD said:
To be fair people can be very careful about apologising in case that is seen as them taking the blame
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Agree with this. If YO had actually said the words' I'm sorry', this could be seen as an admission of guilt on her part so I don't blame her for not apologising. Her response was exactly what I would have said as a YO myself. All my liveries have a contract, which they get to keep a copy of, which clearly states, no responsibility will be taken for any damage to property etc. I only do DIY though so the only person handling the saddle would be the owner. I'm really sorry your saddle was damaged, we all know what expensive items they are, but as previous posts have said, unfortunately accidents do sometimes happen, and it's not always somebody direct fault.
 
If negligence can be proven on the yard owner then there is no reason why you can not claim from their insurers. The fact that the peg has broken may indicate that there is were the problem arose and you may be able to make a claim.
Just a warning - stating that equipment is kept at the owners risk will not stand up in law. The livery yard owner has a duty of care for anyone on the premises or any property that they own and that is why it is so important for yard owners to have full insurance cover including legal fees.
 
OWLIE185 said:
If negligence can be proven on the yard owner then there is no reason why you can not claim from their insurers. The fact that the peg has broken may indicate that there is were the problem arose and you may be able to make a claim.
Just a warning - stating that equipment is kept at the owners risk will not stand up in law. The livery yard owner has a duty of care for anyone on the premises or any property that they own and that is why it is so important for yard owners to have full insurance cover including legal fees.
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So are you saying that even if my clients sign the contract to say they accept that I will not be liable for any damage to property etc, that this would not cover me if there were a problem? As it happens, I do have insurance which cost me in excess of £1000 p.a but as far as I am concerned, this is only if the absolute worst should happen, like a building collapses on somebody etc. as I only charge £26 pw if I had to pay out for every little incident that may occur, I may as well pack up now as I wouldn't be able to afford the insurance!! Why can't people just accept that sometimes ACCIDENTS DO ACTUALLY HAPPEN and it isn't always someone else's fault. I find it incredible that you can put your signature to something and accept those terms, but then if push came to shove, this would be worthless?
 
Not saying this is the case for the OP but, generally speaking, a contract that says the YO is not liable for damage is only valid if he/she has not been negligent.

If the saddle rack had fallen off because it found not to be properly secured or the wall couldn't support the weight, then, there could be a case for negligence.
If a stable roof falls onto a parked car because the roof was in a poor state of repair, the clause stating the car is parked at the owners risk could be void.

YO's have a duty of care and if they provide a facility that is unsafe or badly maintained, it could be proved they were responsible for damage directly caused by their failure.
 
The problem with saying "sorry" is that it implies liability about what happened and in this day and age the yo is probably very aware of that. Sad though it is. Hope the saddle is not damaged internally .
 
MerrySherryRider said:
If the saddle rack had fallen off because it found not to be properly secured or the wall couldn't support the weight, then, there could be a case for negligence.
If a stable roof falls onto a parked car because the roof was in a poor state of repair, the clause stating the car is parked at the owners risk could be void.

YO's have a duty of care and if they provide a facility that is unsafe or badly maintained, it could be proved they were responsible for damage directly caused by their failure.
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This. /\/\/\

Accidents certainly happen. However, if the saddle rack collapsed because it was incorrectly fitted using unsuitable materials, then the YO is responsible. That is not the OP being greedy, that is just how it is. I would be pretty miffed if it happened to my saddle. Yet another reason, though, why I would never have a livery here.

However, it may be difficult or impossible to prove that it was not simply an accident.
 
MerrySherryRider said:
Not saying this is the case for the OP but, generally speaking, a contract that says the YO is not liable for damage is only valid if he/she has not been negligent.

If the saddle rack had fallen off because it found not to be properly secured or the wall couldn't support the weight, then, there could be a case for negligence.
If a stable roof falls onto a parked car because the roof was in a poor state of repair, the clause stating the car is parked at the owners risk could be void.

YO's have a duty of care and if they provide a facility that is unsafe or badly maintained, it could be proved they were responsible for damage directly caused by their failure.
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I think you might find that the clause is only void if you attempt to avoid liability for something that legally cannot be avoided ie death or personal injury.

You can exempt yourself from liability for damage or loss to property as long as you inform the other person of the exemption.

So if the roof damages the car the exemption would probably hold up if you have been clearly informed, but if the roof damages you then the exemption would be invalid.
 
Sounds like something broke (which happens), something is cosmetically damaged (which is unfortunate), and you are really miffed at the YO for an accumulation of reasons not necessarily related to your saddle. Gosh, why is everyone quoting legalise and contracts over something so very minor? Of course you're upset over the scratches on your lovely saddle, but it's hardly anything life threatening, is it?
 
356833007 said:
I'm sorry if this is the wrong section, I wasn't really sure where to post!

So, long story short-ish, the peg which my saddle sits on broke (at a livery yard where my horse is on full livery). When I arrived at the yard the saddle was on the tree in the middle of the room and the peg was hanging off the wall. When I inspected the saddle it had two big, very noticeable graze marks on both the pommel and the cantle. When I finally got to talk to the yard owner about it, she said she had no idea what had happened but had found the peg on the floor (no mention of the saddle) and the she assumed I knew about it. (because I wouldn't tell her the peg had broken if I knew!!) I mentioned the damage to the saddle and she said 'mmmmm, that's unfortunate.'

I'm really angry about this because I'm paying an awful lot for the 'privilege' of having my horse on her yard and yet my equipment is damaged and it is just unfortunate... I don't really know what to do or if there is anything I can do because the saddle isn't broken, just damaged. Has anyone got any advice?
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Hmmm, I'm not a yo, but I kind of feel that you put your saddle up there, it may be her yard, but you made an informed choice. You should have insurance, this will probably cover it but if not, suck it up, replace the saddle and get a saddle stand.
 
As Cortez really. In todays society people don't seem to accept that sometimes accidents happen & it's no ones fault. Things break or wear out & as a result something else may get damaged. It's unfortunate but to start thinking about litigation is a little extreme.
 
Lizzie66 said:
I think you might find that the clause is only void if you attempt to avoid liability for something that legally cannot be avoided ie death or personal injury.

You can exempt yourself from liability for damage or loss to property as long as you inform the other person of the exemption.

So if the roof damages the car the exemption would probably hold up if you have been clearly informed, but if the roof damages you then the exemption would be invalid.
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So we're in agreement then.

Cortez said:
Sounds like something broke (which happens), something is cosmetically damaged (which is unfortunate), and you are really miffed at the YO for an accumulation of reasons not necessarily related to your saddle. Gosh, why is everyone quoting legalise and contracts over something so very minor? Of course you're upset over the scratches on your lovely saddle, but it's hardly anything life threatening, is it?
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TBF, I don't get the impression that the OP was thinking of litigation. The subject arose and incorrectly someone thought that YO's were covered by a contract stating that accidents on the property were at the clients risk.
 
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