Saddle disputes - don't give up!

Lollyblue

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Hello. In the hope that this will encourage others who might be dealing with a saddle dispute or are thinking about questioning the fit of a saddle and/or the manufactured state of a saddle (which could then lead to a dispute) I would like to share my experience with the forum.

I urge anyone who has a genuine concern with a possibly faulty saddle that they have purchased to raise your concerns with the person who sold you the saddle. If they tell you the saddle is absolutely fine and fits your horse, but you still have concerns, then get a second opinion from a recommended and experienced saddle fitter or saddler. I would also urge you to check the Consumer Rights Act 2015 as to what quantifies a 'faulty item' and how you can demand a repair/replacement/refund - all items sold must be of satisfactory quality, be fit for purpose and be as described. To clarify, this applies to both made to measure saddles and off the peg ones. Obviously timescales and how you look after your tack is also important. If a saddle is sold with a fitting service then this must be undertaken with reasonable skill and care.

Possibly consult the Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 if it becomes apparent that you're dealing with a nasty piece of work who wants to intimidate or bully you and/or prevent you from using your consumer rights.

Seriously evaluate the strength of your evidence, gather as much evidence as you can and then be prepared to stand your ground VERY FIRMLY. It might be stressful and a bit of a rollercoaster ride, but for me at least, my evidence only got stronger as time went on and I was literally about to apply to the Small Claims Court when those acting for 'the other side' started to sit up and realise I wasn't bluffing. They might try and discredit your evidence, any witnesses and expert reports, but in my opinion, they are just trying to put you off and make you give up. Ignore them!

I was also very careful to make sure that I followed advice from the Citizen's Advice Bureau regarding pre-court conduct as this would have helped me had my case actually gone to court. Do make sure you attempt to settle the matter out of court in case it does end up in court - I was advised that the judge will look upon the case more favourably (for you) if they see you tried to keep it out of court.

It's definitely not a fun process but I was not prepared to let incompetency, on top of poor workmanship, win. I remain hugely thankful to the small group of people who did answer my call for help, including one or two on this forum (nod to Oz!). For the record, I didn't follow the SMS complaints procedure. If I was back at the beginning again, then I still wouldn't follow it. That's my choice.

So dig in and get ready for hardball BUT make sure your evidence is water-tight and that you're following legislation which will back you up if it goes to court. I didn't use a solicitor and I'm not a solicitor but I 'won'. You can too!!! I sincerely wish you luck.
 

Wizpop

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Well done! It’s so easy to feel defeated when dealing with “”experts”.
A few years ago I bought a new saddle and was assured that it fitted well. I do have a little saddle fitting knowledge and it was soon clear to me that it didn’t fit. I also found it uncomfortable to ride in as did other people.
When placed on a shavings bale, it was quite clearly asymmetrical. The saddle fitter told me that the saddle was deliberately made that way as horses are asymmetrical (!)
long story short, I got my money back after saying that I would personally return it to the manufacturer. So I didn’t have to pursue the matter too far. This lady was a member of the SMS too.
Don’t give up- we trust these people and they can let us down sadly.
 

Birker2020

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Lollyblue well done for your fight for recompense.

I know that feeling - I won a saddle in 2013 by a reputable saddle maker through a horse magazine competition. The saddle companies offer prizes like saddles and bridles in return for free advertising space and the magazine companies are happy because it increases sales, so its a win win.

The saddle fitter from this saddle making company came out to take my horses measurements but my horse wasn't stood square, I told him at the time and made my horse stand square but he didn't seem to care and didn't remeasure him. It wasn't until months later I twigged that the saddle wasn't being made for my horse but instead was a prototype saddle that wasn't effective and they were offering as a prize - found this out months later.

So the saddle arrived. I rode in it a few times. But the horse started to react. After falling off and hurting myself quite badly, having to go to A&E and have xrays and scans and having extensive bruising on my back I had the company come and assess the fit on my horse. They must have come out three or four times to have a look at the saddle, I even had the MD of the company come out, lovely chap actually. He watched me ride in it and tried to get it reflocked both at the yard and by taking it away. It had a special thing at the back that you could plug into some fancy kit so you could heat the tree and alter the fit to suit the horse, it had won awards for this. But they never did do this with the saddle, instead they kept flocking and reflocking it.

The horse would canter on the right rein fine in the Jefferies Falcon that was my existing saddle but every time I put the ***** saddle on, the horse would lower the head, swish the tail and threaten to buck. If I put the JF back on the horse was fine again.

In between times when it was flocked the saddle would fit okay, but then start hurting the horse again after a few rides. The photo below is of us in the said saddle. But when the flocking wore down it hurt the horse again and clearly was never going to fit correctly.

Eventually I offered the saddle for sale on ebay. Had someone make me stupid offer. I sent a message saying "why do you think I would accept an offer of £500 when the saddle is being sold on the market for £2,200 and I'm asking £1200 for it second hand?" The reply "the saddle you have is a proto type saddle. I used to work for ********** and when the tree is heated the glue holding the tree together comes unstuck". I was flabbergasted. I kept the saddle.

The company went bust, I contacted Citizens Advice. They said I had as much right to my money back as the saddle wasn't fit for purpose. Even though I had won it I had the same rights as someone who had bought it. I contacted the Liquidators. They said they had a huge list of creditors and I would be extremely lucky to get any money from them.

I ended up stuck with the saddle. Eventually I part exchanged it with a saddle fitter as I felt guilty about selling it privately. I said to her "I can't believe because it had won this award that they didn't try and heat up the treat like they were supposed to". She said "Oh its well known in the trade that with this particular saddle, if you try to do that it comes unstuck inside"!!!

I assume she sold it to someone who didn't realise you could alter the fit and wouldn't have needed to.
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sbloom

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In everything I read there is a difference between off the peg and customised items so I'd be interested in any exact wording they have in saying the rights are equal. And out of interest had the fitter clearly given you full Ts and Cs when you ordered?

I would always say communication is key. If when you're trying a saddle, whether it's off the peg or has been made for you, then you MUST say if you think there's an issue with it. It's not fair to the fitter ride in it for weeks, make it into a second hand saddle, when you knew it straight off. These conversations aren't easy but when you're spending this much money you must be able to communicate with your saddle fitter. If the thought of asking them a question, or asking for clarification, worries you, then they're not the right fitter for you.

If you want to order something really unusual - colour, trim etc - then be prepared that you will have deductions to help the seller to resell the product, with or without extra wear and tear. Order a more standard finish saddle and the fitter can help you more, above and beyond their legal obligations.

If off the peg DO let the fitter know in writing within 14 days that there is a problem. Allow them to attempt to fix it (there are legal parameters for this) unless you are 100% certain that you don't want it, full stop in which case you have another 14 days to return it to them. It is not the seller's job to get it back from you so be prepared to post, or possibly travel to them. Some of us work from home and do not run full "business premises" which would mean higher business rates as there are regular in-person visitors.
 
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Lollyblue

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In everything I read there is a difference between off the peg and customised items so I'd be interested in any exact wording they have in saying the rights are equal. And out of interest had the fitter clearly given you full Ts and Cs when you ordered?

I would always say communication is key. If when you're trying a saddle, whether it's off the peg or has been made for you, then you MUST say if you think there's an issue with it. It's not fair to the fitter ride in it for weeks, make it into a second hand saddle, when you knew it straight off. These conversations aren't easy but when you're spending this much money you must be able to communicate with your saddle fitter. If the thought of asking them a question, or asking for clarification, worries you, then they're not the right fitter for you.

If you want to order something really unusual - colour, trim etc - then be prepared that you will have deductions to help the seller to resell the product, with or without extra wear and tear. Order a more standard finish saddle and the fitter can help you more, above and beyond their legal obligations.

If off the peg DO let the fitter know in writing within 14 days that there is a problem. Allow them to attempt to fix it (there are legal parameters for this) unless you are 100% certain that you don't want it, full stop in which case you have another 14 days to return it to them. It is not the seller's job to get it back from you so be prepared to post, or possibly travel to them. Some of us work from home and do not run full "business premises" which would mean higher business rates as there are regular in-person visitors.

I was told, by the CAB, that all items sold (obviously saddles in this instance) must be of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and as described, whether that's customised or standard, but that you can't return a customised item after accepting it if you decide you just don't like it, whereas with something standard you can return it within a certain timeframe. Yes Terms and Conditions were given. They basically said the saddle was non returnable but if incorrect/faulty then a repair or refund would be possible.

I gathered evidence to show the saddle was faulty (unsatisfactory quality, not fit for purpose and not as described). I also had frequent visits from the fitter and each time I thought, brilliant, it's sorted out now...but it soon became unbalanced again. I was assured that it did fit and I did totally rely on that person as the professional, but I had no idea the saddle was too narrow from the start and my horse put up with discomfort for so long before kindly dropping subtle hints that he really wasn't ok!

I agree communication is key and I genuinely hope saddle disputes are rare as they're certainly stressful for all concerned.
 

Kaylum

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My friend ordered a custom made saddle you know one of those that stretch the tree to fit the horse. It was wrong in so many ways. Paid 2k for it. When they came to fit it she knew it didn't look right but they insisted it did. She rode a little in it and her physio was coming out so waited and got second opinion from her. She said no way it fitted and she had seen many problems with people using these saddles. The physio wrote a statement and she got her money back.

I see this all the time saddles being incorrectly fitted by experts and also owners have no idea how to tack up or what to use with their saddles.

Make sure your expert has insurance for the profession they are trading in.
 

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite

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I would be interested OP in where/from whom you purchased your saddle?

A few years ago now I had a problem with a saddle I'd bought which advertise themselves as being suitable for native pony's/cobs. If you feed the name of this particular concern on any equestrian forum or chat group you will find a whole lot of stuff comes up about them.

The company was actually being run by someone who had diddly squat experience in saddlery, their main experience seemed to be used car sales..... say no more.

However: you cannot even guarantee that someone who is supposed to be qualified up to the hilt will be any good either; one of my liveries had a fitting at my yard from a local concern that has qualifications sticking out of its corporate backside, but the woman who came out on the day was quite happy to ignore a very obvious atrophy on the horse's back which even a Level 1 BHS student would have spotted on their first day; as well as being unwilling to work within the given budget - she was rude & condescending towards the livery who was doing her very best for her horse but just had to stay within-budget, and was happy to fit a saddle which patently did not fit.

Sometimes you just have to go with your own gut feeling and observations, sadly.
 

Lollyblue

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Unfortunately I can't say from whom I purchased the saddle nor the saddle brand involved...liability was never admitted so I could open myself up to libel actions! However, I think I know the 'outfit' you mean and it's not them :)

I do want to make it clear I was more than happy to resolve the matter early on and as amicably as possible. It was the other party who escalated things before I had to take a stand.

I just want my experience to boost the confidence of others who might find themselves in a similar situation where they feel a huge sense of injustice. Of course, every case is different and reading some of the responses, it's clear others have had a worse time of it than me!

I also wish to say that I did buy another made to measure saddle back in April from a different saddle fitter and a different brand and I couldn't be happier with it. No issues at all! There are lots of wonderful and skilled saddlers and saddle fitters out there...and people do make mistakes, we're all human, it's just how they then deal with the mistake that shows a lot about their character.
 
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