Saddle fit and muscle wastage

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TomH

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Posting on behalf of a friend who is having some issues with saddle fit at the moment.

Horse had slight muscle wastage behind withers and was fitted with a new saddle at the beginning of January. This saddle is wide enough and seems to fit well, some extra flocking was added to the front of the saddle to compensate for the wastage. Although I'm no expert this is what I believe to be the correct thing to do - friend, horse and saddler all seemed happy with what had been fitted.

However, the horses muscles do not seem to be growing at all, and if anything maybe even a little bit worse.

The saddler needs to come back out again anyway as the flocking has bedded down slightly since the fitting, but my friend is unsure if this saddler is doing the right thing by the horse.

Has anyone had a similar experience or have any knowledge on this?
 
Does the horse make any attempt to work correctly? You won't see a difference if not. Also, is the saddle maybe slightly wide and needing something a bit extra under the front to fill the muscle wastage and lift the saddle so it can grow? Flocking can only do so much IMO. I think it's probably something better raised with the saddle fitter as they can judge the horse in front of them and have a better insight into what's going on.
 
What above said. Regardless of whether the saddle is a bad for or the best fit ever if the horse isn't working correctly it will never form the muscles properly.

My saddle fitter made my horses saddle wider than he was to start with but I used nuumed foam pads and reduced them the bigger he got :)
 
The horse doesn't really work in a proper outline, but doesn't run around like a giraffe either.

Yes I was wondering if a corrective pad may help, although I am always a bit wary of people using these without the advice from a saddler. I hope the saddler will give my friend some good advice when he comes back.

Thank you for taking the time to reply.
 
rachaelstar said:
What above said. Regardless of whether the saddle is a bad for or the best fit ever if the horse isn't working correctly it will never form the muscles properly.

My saddle fitter made my horses saddle wider than he was to start with but I used nuumed foam pads and reduced them the bigger he got :)
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Thank you for this.

Would not working in an outline really make that much of a difference? What about riding school ponies!?
 
A lot of schoolies have muscle wastage, not always due to saddles but down to working incorrectly. You'll normally find the better schooled riding school horses who work correctly more often don't have wastage. It doesn't necessarily need to be an 'outline' as such but from behind and over the back at least is the foundation for building top line. Hill work and more hill work helps loads.
 
Caveat - I am not a saddler but have had experience of this with my own horses. Basically, the saddle should fit the shape the horse should be without the muscle wastage, so should not be fit to its current shape. Some sort of correction pad can be used to "fill the gap" where the muscle should be. THis allows the horse to build up the correct muscle. THe Kay HumphrIes saddle fitting book explains this well.
 
I have been advised to get a slightly wider saddle (the adjustable makes are handy for this) and then pad it out to 'fill in the gaps' (ie where the wastage is). This should allow the horse to then fill out. I did this with my horse, he'd had the same saddle for years but I noticed he was lacking muscle around his withers. Got him a kent & masters cob wide and padded it out on advice from an instructor who is very in to saddle fitting.
The saddle shouldn't have been made to fit the horse in its current physical shape as it won't allow any room for change.
You would also have to encourage the horse to work properly from behind to help re-build the muscles that have wasted.
 
Thank you, I will suggest hill work to my friend and see if that helps.

If the horse was working correctly, how long would it be before you would expect to see a difference?
 
Depends on the horse really and how much you do but I've seen a horse who was worked consistently well for 3 months (fit to start off with) fill noticeably in that time. Not perfect but a definite difference (and reduction in padding needed for saddle too). I don't know if that was a good, average or below average improvement but I was suitably impressed :)
 
I am glad to see that so many people are thinking correctly regarding this. I agree with what the saddler has done, but just make sure the horse is working correctly. I had an eighteen year old horse here whose muscle wastage almost disappeared after 3 months working in a wider saddle with extra padding. He gained almost two inches either side! However, as others have said, correct working over the back is key. It will not happen without this. My TB came to me with muscle wastage. He has had more than a year off with no work at all and the wastage is still there. Hopefully I can address that now I am back working him.
 
Wagtail said:
I am glad to see that so many people are thinking correctly regarding this. I agree with what the saddler has done, but just make sure the horse is working correctly. I had an eighteen year old horse here whose muscle wastage almost disappeared after 3 months working in a wider saddle with extra padding. He gained almost two inches either side! However, as others have said, correct working over the back is key. It will not happen without this. My TB came to me with muscle wastage. He has had more than a year off with no work at all and the wastage is still there. Hopefully I can address that now I am back working him.
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This saddler added a bit of flocking to the front, which has now bedded down. Do you think it would be better if my friend suggests using pads to the saddler rather than him adding even more flocking?
 
Is the saddle lifting at the back? If you do fit a remedial horse "too wide" you must compensate with flocking and shimming/pads - if nothing supports the front of the saddle the back can lift and that movement will stop muscle developing.

If you do use padding at the front the saddle must be fitted with it - adding too much padding can cause the saddle to tip back.
 
Can't quote as on phone but I think most rs ponies had muscle wastage and the ones that don't are normally extremely obese - I didn't say that :p not saying every horse but this is normally the case :p

A correct saddle fit is the only reason I'm riding my horse now, my old saddle ruined his back so badly he was crippled and now has arthritis from it :(
 
rachaelstar said:
Can't quote as on phone but I think most rs ponies had muscle wastage and the ones that don't are normally extremely obese - I didn't say that :p not saying every horse but this is normally the case :p
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When I got my horse he was very very overweight and had fat deposits behind his shoulders and either side of his spine. Now he has lost a lot of the weight, he hasn't got a lot of muscle on his back which is concerning me at the moment.

Like you, the saddler is coming back out again soon so I will discuss with him. I have just started working him in a pessoa so hopefully that will help muscle him up on his back too.
 
I'm going through similar myself - saddle made to measure and I specifically drew attention to the hollows giving the impression that my horse was narrower than she would be if muscled up properly. Months later my horse was worse rather than better and showed signs of being increasingly uncomfortable - grumpy when saddle brought out, shortened stride, stumbling, sore/rubbed back, reluctant down hill and losing her nice elastic stride. I got a trainer out to help me and her comment (as she is also a remedial saddle fitter) was that the saddle was too narrow - it had been fitted to the hollows without allowing enough room for the muscles to recover. Pads/shims are valuable tools to temporarily fill in these pesky hollows but should be used with guidance so the right outcome is achieved.
Get second opinions from a reputable trainer and remedial saddler, perhaps even a physiotherapist. Your horse can't tell you directly how the saddle feels so look carefully for the signs of discomfort. Take templates of the horse's back and photos unsaddled and saddled with rider - side, front, back and from the top (close ups!). You can use these to compare progress and to support your discussions with the saddler
 
The korrector saddle pad is very useful for these cases as it has four air bags inside and you inflate them as you are sitting in the saddle for a perfect fit when ridden. It stays inflated like that so you don't have to do it every time, but you can adjust it as your horse fills out.
 
TomH said:
Would not working in an outline really make that much of a difference?
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No it wouldn't - but not working 'correctly' would. A horse doesn't have to be in an outline to be working correctly - but it should be working in to the contact of the bit.

Some horses never recover from muscle wastage.

Is the horse 100% sound??
 
I am useless at saddle-fitting, which I consider to be an elevated science! I've found short but regular lunge work seems to be the best for rebuilding the top line, and it's especially helpful on my older TB. This doesn't mean it works for everyone, but it's worked very well for me - so far!
 
The saddle should fit the shape you want the horse to be and a corrector pad with shims should be used to allow the muscle to develop. You can gradually reduce the thickness of the shims as the horse develops his muscle. Because the saddle is rigid there is no polint re-flocking to fit his current shape as his muscles will not be able to develop.

A good saddle fitter would have known this and shown you how to fit a pad.
 
amymay said:
No it wouldn't - but not working 'correctly' would. A horse doesn't have to be in an outline to be working correctly - but it should be working in to the contact of the bit.

Some horses never recover from muscle wastage.

Is the horse 100% sound??
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Yes I believe the horse is sound
 
Tammytoo said:
The saddle should fit the shape you want the horse to be and a corrector pad with shims should be used to allow the muscle to develop. You can gradually reduce the thickness of the shims as the horse develops his muscle. Because the saddle is rigid there is no polint re-flocking to fit his current shape as his muscles will not be able to develop.

A good saddle fitter would have known this and shown you how to fit a pad.
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This was my main concern, that the saddler added flocking rather than adding padding.
 
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