Saddle Fitter sold me wrong size saddle? should i get them back out?

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HorseyStar

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Hi
I got my Welsh cob in July this year....i saved up to have a proper fitted saddle for him and got a saddle fiter out in September....he is only 14h and i am only 8st so i did state on the phone that i wanted approx 16'' seat cos he is short backed too, anyway she turned up with only 17'' and said that a 17'' was perfectly fine for him as she tried a few on him 9oly took about 5 minutes to try a saddle on him) she said he was a wide...anyway i got a Heritage Brown Leather Saddle GP which was new and she said had just come in and go for around 800, however i got it for 500. as my cob is young the previous owner told me to ride him in a poly pad which i have with this saddle, however i have been having major probs with him bucking, iv had vet out etc and last call was the physio, she said he was a little tight and told me i needed to build his topline lunging in a bungee....however she did check my saddle fit out and recons that the saddle isnt a good fit and said it dips at the back and doesnt lie straight and also recons that its to big for him and 17'' is too long as the tenderness he had was in the same place as the saddle ends (if that makes sense) she said i could still rid ein it but would have to ride in a rear riser pad untill his topling improves...i am just sooo annoyed that with teh saddle fitter, 500 pounds is a heck of a lot of money to me and i dont have that sort of cash to get yet a smaller 'correct' size...where do you think i stand???? should i call the saddler up and ask them to come back out and change?? (but i cant afford them 40 call out fee or a new saddle)...i am so annoyed, this woman is meant to be experienced...i also traded my old saddle in for this new heritage one... :( ?? what would you do??? ride in a riser pad with 17''? or.....call them and advise the problem? thanks
 
I would certainly get the saddler back out.

Has your horse changed shape at all since buying him? Did the saddler come and do a reflock and check after 6 weeks on your new saddle? Did you explain to the saddler that you wanted to use the polypad under your saddle, and have your saddle checked with the poly pad on?

You need to give your saddler the chance to come and explain why he fitted this saddle, check the fit and be allowed to rectify the problem if there is one.
 
sorry cant be helpful, similar happened to myself, cut a long story short three new saddles in a year (!) finds myself very mistrustful of any saddlers one saddle i had nearly two months , new fitted to be checked after issues by another saddler totaly wrong ,etc,,,,went into great discussion what was wrong, etc then the only second hand saddle to fit my boy was £500 .
Totally depressing .They will probs say after a few months the horse changed shape .Maybe someone else will help.
 
to be honest, all the horses iv had in the past have come with fitted saddles so this was rge 1st time iv ever used a saddler so wasnt sure what i should be asking etc...no the saddler seemed ina rush at the time, dumped 2 diff 17'' saddles on him and said either of them fit so pick whichever one i preferred..? so i picked the heritage one which she said should have been 8-- but i could have for 500... it is a nice saddle just seems to be that he's bucked like mad with it and it seems a bit big on him...and with the physio saying that it is slightly long on him then it kind makes sense...

not sure whether to cut my losses and get a diff saddler out to trade the other one in.... (altho that could take me weeks to save up) or call the saddler i got this one from and explain that my physio recons its not a great fit??

i wouldnt say he's changed shape a lot...he has chunked out a little due to being out of work because of his back and dubious about riding in this saddle...

and no the saddler never mentioned to me about coming back out...or when he would need re-checking..she kinda came, dumped one on him then took my money and left...not the best customer service looking back..but like i say new experience for me, nevere dealt with one...she must have seen me coming! lol....he did buck after riding in the saddle the 2nd time, but i just didnt think it could be the saddle because it had only been fitted the week before...i thought it was him just being young and green...

she also never asked me what was gonna be going underneath the saddle..i.e pad etc..

not sure what to do...only thing i do know is im skint! lol so whatever i do its got to involve not spending anymore pennies :( if she has fitted it wrong (im sure she wont admit she has) then dont see why i should have to pay anything more..... arrrgghh! so frustrated...cant even ride as im scared of ruining his back x
 
Yuletide_Gal said:
I had a saddler try and sell me a 16 inch saddle for a 12hh dartmoor...

Tell them to come out and rectify the problem or refund the saddle in full. Their fault. They need to sort it out.
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i have been out to two ponies recently, both under 12.2hh, in 16.5" + 17" saddles... neither owner could work out why their pony was bucking and bolting. both owners had had the saddles 'fitted' by a local fitter.... and therefore didn't question the saddles. :eek:

OP, get fitter back out. defo. most reputable fitters will go out of their way to solve a problem like this. good luck! xx
 
clipcloppop said:
i have been out to two ponies recently, both under 12.2hh, in 16.5" + 17" saddles... neither owner could work out why their pony was bucking and bolting. both owners had had the saddles 'fitted' by a local fitter.... and therefore didn't question the saddles. :eek:

OP, get fitter back out. defo. most reputable fitters will go out of their way to solve a problem like this. good luck! xx
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thanks very much...will give her a ring tomorrow....eeek! scared! x
 
HorseyStar said:
and no the saddler never mentioned to me about coming back out...or when he would need re-checking..she kinda came, dumped one on him then took my money and left..

she also never asked me what was gonna be going underneath the saddle..i.e pad etc..
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oh, okay, a fitter should really give you instructions on how to treat your saddle for the first few weeks (eg some 'bed down' differently and need time to settle). and they should come back after about 6weeks to check it fits. all saddles are made individually so they need checking on the horse once they've settled.

fitters should also ask what numnah etc you use as that can make a difference to the fit.

hmmm. did your fitter come recommended?
i'd give them a ring in the morning and tell them your concerns. see if they'll come back out and have a look (ideally free of charge...as you didn't get a 6wk refit...). if it helps, the weight bearing panels on the back of the saddle shouldn't come past where the last rib comes up to. try googling it cos there'll be videos/pictures online. then you see if you can feel where your horse's last rib is. that way when fitter comes back out you can't be fobbed off, if that makes sense? arm yourself with a little bit of knowledge. also, if the saddle is sitting too high at the front it can cause more pressure at the back as the rider's weight isn't evenly distributed and they can end up sitting too far back etc. look at your saddle side on, on the horse and imagine putting a marble on the seat... would the marble roll to the middle of the seat? the lowest point should be pretty much the middle of the seat. does that make sense? again, i bet if you google it, there'll be pics/videos online.
saddle fitting has lots and lots of elements- and can be quite complicated... so ^^ isn't the way to fit a saddle, but it's a few tips if you think your saddle is too long and tilted... try the above and arm yourself with a little bit of knowledge, just in case.

good luck! xxx
 
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clipcloppop said:
oh, okay, a fitter should really give you instructions on how to treat your saddle for the first few weeks (eg some 'bed down' differently and need time to settle). and they should come back after about 6weeks to check it fits. all saddles are made individually so they need checking on the horse once they've settled.

fitters should also ask what numnah etc you use as that can make a difference to the fit.

hmmm. did your fitter come recommended?
i'd give them a ring in the morning and tell them your concerns. see if they'll come back out and have a look (ideally free of charge...as you didn't get a 6wk refit...). if it helps, the weight bearing panels on the back of the saddle shouldn't come past where the last rib comes up to. try googling it cos there'll be videos/pictures online. then you see if you can feel where your horse's last rib is. that way when fitter comes back out you can't be fobbed off, if that makes sense? arm yourself with a little bit of knowledge. also, if the saddle is sitting too high at the front it can cause more pressure at the back as the rider's weight isn't evenly distributed and they can end up sitting too far back etc. look at your saddle side on, on the horse and imagine putting a marble on the seat... would the marble roll to the middle of the seat? the lowest point should be pretty much the middle of the seat. does that make sense? again, i bet if you google it, there'll be pics/videos online.
saddle fitting has lots and lots of elements- and can be quite complicated... so ^^ isn't the way to fit a saddle, but it's a few tips if you think your saddle is too long and tilted... try the above and arm yourself with a little bit of knowledge, just in case.

good luck! xxx
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thankyou so so much for the help everyone...appreciate it. god i am so thick at things to do with saddle fit and where all the ribs lie etc etc but i suppose thats why we pay the experts to do that bit of work for us, which is why i am a bit peed of...the saddler is v well known within the Cheshire reason, i think from googling her a lot of people have been happy with her...but have heard a few negatives too...i recon if the physio said its a bit to long then maybe it is, they are obviously good at knowing exactly where all the bone structure and anatomy of a horse...just so frustrating when you have a young horse that just needs work, and you just cant ride due to a simple thing like having a correct saddle after forking out 500 quid :(

i have a funny feeling though thats its not gonna be straight forward and there wil be some 'fobbing' off...after all who wants to admit theyv fitted something wrong...and she sold me the saddle new and it is now worn... :( not a lot but has been ridden in...like i say i thought the bucking wasnt down to the saddle due to it being fitted...but i wouldnt even mind her doing a straight swap for a 2nd hand one....just so long as it fitted. maybe i should say this to her...either way i am not paying 40 call out when iv not even had a 6 weel follow up like you said...surely professionals have diaries these days? and pencil the 6 weeks in on the fitting appointment! duh! lol...i will keep you all posted tomoz after my very nervous phone call (god i hate complaining!! im one of those ppl that will usually put up with it and keep quiet cos i dont like upsetting anyone )... but my horses welfare is no.1 x
 
You also need to get a decent physio........ your physio has no idea whatsoever about saddle fit. If you saddle is down at the back it is because it is up at the front therefore it is too tight. Putting a poly pad underneath is will make it far worse, infact that will make a narrow saddle bridge even more. Causing severe pressure at the back of the saddle and the front. In fact exactly where you appear to be having pain. Putting a rear riser under a saddle does of course lift the back, but it just increases pressure at teh too narrow front.

I agree your saddler is probably not particularly good, but I have sold 17'' saddles for 14'2 horses before - because of the length of their back they are more than capable of carrying it and it would be the best for that horse. Noone can say what size will fit your horse without seeing it, Some 17inch saddles are shorter than some 16.5s - it all depends on the panel length and the size of the gussets. But if your horse is bucking he is uncomfortable -= and the advice from your physio will only make him worse.

In the short term - take out the poly pad and have a look at the fit. Is the seat level? how does it then fit against the horse. If you want to post a photo with the saddle on the horses back without pads then i can help advise as to the actual fit
 
Bosworth said:
You also need to get a decent physio........ your physio has no idea whatsoever about saddle fit. If you saddle is down at the back it is because it is up at the front therefore it is too tight. Putting a poly pad underneath is will make it far worse, infact that will make a narrow saddle bridge even more. Causing severe pressure at the back of the saddle and the front. In fact exactly where you appear to be having pain. Putting a rear riser under a saddle does of course lift the back, but it just increases pressure at teh too narrow front.

I agree your saddler is probably not particularly good, but I have sold 17'' saddles for 14'2 horses before - because of the length of their back they are more than capable of carrying it and it would be the best for that horse. Noone can say what size will fit your horse without seeing it, Some 17inch saddles are shorter than some 16.5s - it all depends on the panel length and the size of the gussets. But if your horse is bucking he is uncomfortable -= and the advice from your physio will only make him worse.

In the short term - take out the poly pad and have a look at the fit. Is the seat level? how does it then fit against the horse. If you want to post a photo with the saddle on the horses back without pads then i can help advise as to the actual fit
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thankyour for your help with this...i will try and get a piccy today at the yard....yes im kinda not liking the idea of using all sorts of pads etc etc, the saddle should just fit without anything....

i did contact the saddler today and she was really helpful and said she would come down next week and refit for something with a shorter panel? and said she would do a like for like swap....which helps a lot as im skint :eek:

my horses welfare is no.1...i do think the bucking is a bit of both uncomfortable and he;s young and very green....oh and did i mention he;s a Welsh Cob! :) which all these put together = bucking rodeo!! :eek:

i have paid a fortune on 'professionals' including vet who's checked his teeth, legs looked out for lameness, saddler to fit a good saddle, physio to check his back and advised on saddle and pads...and also a good dressage instructor who is happy with all his tack, bridle etc etc...so apart from the saddle after we get a new one next week....i am really baffled as to what could be causing this bucking spree.....it basically will come down to pure cheekiness etc as pain related issues are slowly getting ruled out.

when i get this new saddle, in your opinion what would be the best normal pad to use under it? sheepskin half pad? as i was thinking if i buy one before the saddler comes it means she can try the pad with the new saddle for me to make sure the fit isnt effected (if that makes sense) i believe sheepskin is best for comfort and for sweat etc etc...what pad would you advise?

thansk soo much x
 
I personally use a sheepskin half pad under my saddle because mine are all half panel saddles and I use Mattes or Griffen Nuumed ones. I also only use them to keep the underside of my saddle clean as it is serge, not to make my saddle fit. If your saddle fits correctly you do not need a pad at all. If however you want to use a particular type - a) ensure it is a high wither pad regardless of whether your horse is high withered or flat back and b) ensure it is big enough to fit your entire saddle or it will cause pressure points.

Ensure you have it with you when your saddler comes and ensure they fit the saddle to the pad. With a young undermuscled horse I tend to fit wide and use a prolit pad underneath so that the horse has room to muscle up and change shape. if you have one fitted to your horses exact shape it will restrict further growth and cause you long term issues.

As to your horse bucking - I am not surprised. your saddle is causing pressure under the saddle at the front and rear and sounds as though is is bridging which will be very painful. Get a saddle that is wide enough and I suspect the bucking will stop. Does he buck when you get on him bareback?
 
HorseyStar said:
i did contact the saddler today and she was really helpful and said she would come down next week and refit for something with a shorter panel? and said she would do a like for like swap....which helps a lot as im skint :eek:
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^^^ this is a bit odd, to agree that the saddle they'd fitted is too long, over the phone...?

anyway, bosworth has given you excellent advice, along with the others.

oh, and like someone said, physios aren't trained as saddle fitters. some do do a short module on saddle fit (as it is so often the cause of pain related problems), and you're right, they do know about the anatomy etc of the horse... but they aren't qualified fitters. so, whilst they may well be right, take what they say with a pinch of salt. a qualified, recommended saddle fitter is the person you want to ask about saddle fit really.

good luck! xxxx
 
Thanks everyone for your very helpful comments! yes saddle fitter said on the phone she would come down and check it and if it wasn't the best fit she would change for like for like.
She came down and said he has changed shape since she last fitted it a few months ago and thats why it doesnt fit anymore.anyway she gave me a much smaller one and since then i have rode him thru the bucks (scary!) lol and they have all but stopped! yeay!

thanks guys! x
 
I have seen quite a few saddles sold by 'fitters' that have not fitted the animal in any way. Unfortuately some are just out to get rid of the stock they have on the van.
I would always get a knowledgable friend to watch you ride or video you ride in it. Its always harder with a new saddle as they need to mould to an animal but being too long for the animal means it never fitted to start with.
I buy most of mine secondhand, a lot of saddlers will let you have them on a weeks trial which allows you time to make sure it really is the right saddle. I would advise anyone to ask for time to think and then ring them later. Its a lot of money so why feel pressured in to buying? Remember they make money buying selling saddles, so expect the same sort of service as you would from any shop.
 
honetpot said:
I have seen quite a few saddles sold by 'fitters' that have not fitted the animal in any way. Unfortuately some are just out to get rid of the stock they have on the van.
I would always get a knowledgable friend to watch you ride or video you ride in it. Its always harder with a new saddle as they need to mould to an animal but being too long for the animal means it never fitted to start with.
I buy most of mine secondhand, a lot of saddlers will let you have them on a weeks trial which allows you time to make sure it really is the right saddle. I would advise anyone to ask for time to think and then ring them later. Its a lot of money so why feel pressured in to buying? Remember they make money buying selling saddles, so expect the same sort of service as you would from any shop.
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that is soo true what you are saying! as since iv had the new saddle (and after riding the bucks out and making him gallop thru them like a looney! lol) i found today whilst schooling that i dont feel 'right' in it, he seems happy enuff in it, but i just dont feel 100% in my rising trot etc, perhaps it has something to dow ith being out of the saddle for nearly 2 months when his back was bad and also muscle gone due to lack of work etc...im hoping i start to feel comfy in it soon, like you say maybe just takes time to mould to him etc....i dont know, im quite thick when it comes to saddles! lol thats why i paid 500 quid for an 'expert' lol! thankyou! x
 
Bosworth said:
You also need to get a decent physio........ your physio has no idea whatsoever about saddle fit. If you saddle is down at the back it is because it is up at the front therefore it is too tight. Putting a poly pad underneath is will make it far worse, infact that will make a narrow saddle bridge even more. Causing severe pressure at the back of the saddle and the front. In fact exactly where you appear to be having pain. Putting a rear riser under a saddle does of course lift the back, but it just increases pressure at teh too narrow front.
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A saddle can also be too low at the back because the rear gussets of the panel are too shallow, the front is overflocked, the back is underflocked...saddles are not only low at the back because they are too narrow. I see a lot of saddles that are fitted correctly at the front but do not have a deep enough rear panel, and this will, as you say, mean there is too much pressure at the back of the panel, and the horse may well find it uncomfy enough to buck.

Saddle balance, tree width and clearance under the pommel are all interrelated but not the same thing at all.

Bosworth said:
a) ensure it is a high wither pad regardless of whether your horse is high withered or flat back and
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I find that high wither numnahs on flatter backed horses (which are the majority of my customers) are unsightly and can wrinkle up under the saddle. Something like Mattes with a shallower but very firm topline is much better, it will stay up very well under the saddle and not drop and wrinkle. A firm pad will stay up better than a soft floppy one.

Pacey said:
It's rare to find two saddle fitters who will agree!!!
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As evidenced by this post! We all have our systems and the way things work for us.
 
Hmm, given where you live, this wasn't L for Leather was it? PM me if you prefer. But yes, get them back out and don't take no for an answer. 17 inches is right on the margin of being too large especially as you are obviously small.
 
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