Saddle for high withered short backed horse

[Wheresthehoofpick]

Hi. Struggling with saddlers and saddles!

I can't see a recent post on this

I have a 16hh high withered ISH with a short back. He is new to me. Only had him a month. The saddle we have on loan From the saddler is a disaster.
Has anyone had any experience of a T4 or T8?
Tried a Kent and Masters 17.5 high wither on him and we were both more stable immediately.

Want to get something properly sorted but decent saddlers can't come for weeks.
Was wondering about a 17" T4 in meantime. Could get one for £300.
Still have a v expensive now, only just not new saddle to sell. A monarch which seem to go for peanuts second hand.

Do the T4 resell ok?

I have also been suggested a compact 17.5 T4/8. Though someone else said they are uncomfortable and throw you forward.

arrggh

 

[Wheresthehoofpick]

 

[AmyMay]

What saddle was he previously ridden in?

 

[EternalVetBills]

I loved my Thorowgood compact dressage for my mare who was very similar. We managed a 17" seat, (just!) but my saddler said if I'd wanted a GP, we'd have had to go .5 an inch shorter as they can't be sat as far forward as the dressage.

Hope that makes sense and someone who knows a bit more can come and explain a bit better

 

[Wheresthehoofpick]

Don't know what he was in before. He is a bit of a conundrum. He's 8 came over from Ireland 4 months ago. I got him a month ago.

The longer I have him the less I think he has done. His teeth were shocking. He backs away from being tacked up. Much better with bridle now. But he is used to ill fitting tack.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

My older horse is similar shaped and the Kieffer Garmisch GP has worked for him for the last decade. The tree can also be heated and adjusted by a saddler with the appropriate equipment.

 

[saddlesore]

I have a T4 and a T8. Cracking saddles and and very comfy 😊

 

[rextherobber]

I have 16.2 hh ish, can only have a maximum of 17" saddle, we use Thorowgood T6 GP, and T8 dressage, both high wither, and both have had numerous gullet changes!. I did think the GP encourages an armchair seat, but now I think it's me! Horse seems very happy in them...

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

We have a TB x Hann, he's 16h1" short backed & high withered. Years ago we had a saddler out to fit him with a new saddle & he immediately discounted numerous saddles as never going to fit him. He did try on a Harry Dabbs & it fitted perfectly. He has had that saddle for years now & it has & is serving him well. Apparently Jaguar saddles have a similar fit & would have been suitable. This taught me a good lesson, never fixate on a particular saddle that you want for your horse, if your saddle fitter is any good they should know what sadles fit your stamp of horse & go with their thoughts.

 

[rextherobber]

We have a TB x Hann, he's 16h1" short backed & high withered. Years ago we had a saddler out to fit him with a new saddle & he immediately discounted numerous saddles as never going to fit him. He did try on a Harry Dabbs & it fitted perfectly. He has had that saddle for years now & it has & is serving him well. Apparently Jaguar saddles have a similar fit & would have been suitable. This taught me a good lesson, never fixate on a particular saddle that you want for your horse, if your saddle fitter is any good they should know what sadles fit your stamp of horse & go with their thoughts.

Absolutely agree - Thorowgood was purchased on the advice of our saddle fitter.

 

[sbloom]

I would say he's not actually high withered, not in the true sense. He has high shoulder blades, broad too, right below the highest part of this wither, if you look at 2" behind his shoulder blade, where the tree should sit, there's not as much wither as you think, but he IS uphill overall. I would be wary of traditional HW saddles, they tend to have narrow curvy rails and may roll. Without a rear shot it's hard to tell but a hoop tree may be helpful if he's as wide over the back of the shoulders as he looks, I wouldn't go too high in the pommel/deep in the seat but would look for wider flatter rails (your fitter should be able to help you otherwise seek out a specialist wider saddle fitter) and then a deep rear gusset to balance the saddle.

 

[Hack4fun]

Try a compact high withered T4.

 

[AandK]

I have a big shouldered, compact TB and he has an old Albion K2 GP with a TB tree.

 

[Wheresthehoofpick]

Here is another photo of him.

 

[hopscotch bandit]

I have 16.2 hh ish, can only have a maximum of 17" saddle, we use Thorowgood T6 GP, and T8 dressage, both high wither, and both have had numerous gullet changes!. I did think the GP encourages an armchair seat, but now I think it's me! Horse seems very happy in them...

I'm not sure what the T6 and T8 saddles are but anything with a gullet change for a high withered horse whose fit is not narrow put in a narrow gullet in an effort to bring the saddle off the withers doesn't work as I found out to my detriment. Just to warn people from my experience.

I had many years ago, a high withered horse in a Wintec GP. His fit was medium. Someone suggested I put him in a narrower gullet to get some height between the pommel and the withers but it clearly wasn't comfortable for him. In the end I got a front riser pad as a temporary solution until I bought another saddle that did suit him. However due to circumstances the new saddle never got bought. The riser pad that I swore I would only use as a 'temp measure transferred the riders weight behind the saddle (in the cantle region) and the horse ended up quite sore and needed the physio to sort him out.

Lesson learnt. I don't want a lecture on the fact it was a stupid decision I made as I already know. But if someone can learn from my experience (which is the whole reason I'm on the forum) then that makes me happy.

 

[sbloom]

I'm not sure what the T6 and T8 saddles are but anything with a gullet change for a high withered horse whose fit is not narrow put in a narrow gullet in an effort to bring the saddle off the withers doesn't work as I found out to my detriment. Just to warn people from my experience.

I had many years ago, a high withered horse in a Wintec GP. His fit was medium. Someone suggested I put him in a narrower gullet to get some height between the pommel and the withers but it clearly wasn't comfortable for him. In the end I got a front riser pad as a temporary solution until I bought another saddle that did suit him. However due to circumstances the new saddle never got bought. The riser pad that I swore I would only use as a 'temp measure transferred the riders weight behind the saddle (in the cantle region) and the horse ended up quite sore and needed the physio to sort him out.

Lesson learnt. I don't want a lecture on the fact it was a stupid decision I made as I already know. But if someone can learn from my experience (which is the whole reason I'm on the forum) then that makes me happy.

One of the issues is that the headplates have such narrow tops to them, the opposite of a hoop tree. Now, you'd have thought a narrower horse (but I'm not convinced he's at all narrow) might need a narrower head but if you look at a Kieffer from the front (and most are from high withers) they look really wide at the pommel, but because they're very cut back, so the top of the headplate has, in effect, been removed. A wider head, a different way of achieving it, can be very useful, giving space for the spinalis and other muscles around the wither. And yes, you absolutely HAVE to understand the relationship between clearance, tree angle and saddle balance, as a minimum, to be able to know when and how to change headplates. If you do go narrow and then use a rear riser (showing a basic understanding of the interactions of width and balance) you can leave the saddle bridging as well as any undue pressure at the tree points, even if you successfully balance the saddle.

And back to the photo, look at where the back edge of the shoulder blade is, the tree must be 2" behind that so the pommel is 2" behind that point, you see why I'm saying you don't need a super high withered shaped tree? Let alone the downsides of curvy and upright rails that come with them...

I would also say your horse (as so many would) would benefit from more postural work, it will help him lift the belly and develop his topline which will all make him easier to fit. See resources like Horses Inside Out, Straightnesstraining.com and the Manolo Mendez DVDs.

 

[Christmas Crumpet]

I would say he's not actually high withered, not in the true sense. He has high shoulder blades, broad too, right below the highest part of this wither, if you look at 2" behind his shoulder blade, where the tree should sit, there's not as much wither as you think, but he IS uphill overall. I would be wary of traditional HW saddles, they tend to have narrow curvy rails and may roll. Without a rear shot it's hard to tell but a hoop tree may be helpful if he's as wide over the back of the shoulders as he looks, I wouldn't go too high in the pommel/deep in the seat but would look for wider flatter rails (your fitter should be able to help you otherwise seek out a specialist wider saddle fitter) and then a deep rear gusset to balance the saddle.

This is so interesting to hear - its exactly what the person who has made my saddle has said when I questioned the hoop tree and not a more A shaped tree. It does seem like there is quite a lot of room at the front of the pommel and he looks a bit like the horse above, but if he was the shape God intended him to be, he'd be a wide if not xw. He has muscle wastage from being ridden in a rubbish old Stubben by his old owners. He is now in a saddle with a slightly hoop tree and filling out week by week.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

My new horse is a high withered short backed with very upright shoulders big built Irish sport horse and it took a good few saddles to find one that suited him and me. Luckily the excellent saddle fitter had brought out a great selection with them. In the end we settled on and Ideal GP and it is working very well for him and me.

Oddly apart from larger knee rolls it is identical to an Ideal saddle, apart from larger knee rolls this time, that I bought years ago for another very big built short backed horse.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

Here’s my old guy at 24yrs as sbloom discussed he’s also not narrow even though his wither is high he’s wide barrelled too. He’s always gone best in the Kieffer even more than a made to measure I had. Only problem is very recently it’s started to move back.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

pic if iback shape of my lad who fits the ideal Gp beautifully

 

[hopscotch bandit]

pic if iView attachment 38334back shape of my lad who fits the ideal Gp beautifully

Nice horse Mrs J, just the type I go for

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

It does seem a bit excessive for an ear veil, I reckon most of us could have run one up in that time!

Nice horse Mrs J, just the type I go for

thank you - yes he is definitely my sort for sure