Saddle Problems!!

[runaway]

All initial thought's and ideas welcome

(appreciate it's difficult without seeing horse etc)

Ok so my dad's 16.3hh 7/8ths TB is causing major problems re saddles has anyone got any ideas?

BACKGROUND INFO - P's (the horse!) always had a problem carrying weight and tends to be on the toned/light side all the time - loosing condition if anything. He's always jumped what you put him at and is "bubbly" for want of a better expression!

At the moment he's whipping in about twice a week. He's been ridden in an Albion but last season it caused white hairs to appear. Having had the summer off he was brought back into light work and the saddle man came. The saddle was re flocked etc, but white patches started to appear again and after a mornings hunting his back was obviously sore

Patches of hair appeared either side of the wither about the size of a fist.

So the saddler was called out again. Says the saddle fits, which in our laymans eyes it certainly looks to do. Saddle man can only suggest that there is movement which is causing problem but wasn't sure how he could reduce pressure or "anchor" saddle to stop prob without rebuilding it. He showed another saddle, by Ideal, which is made specifically for TB's as it has BIG pads to spread the weight more. I hacked out the other day in the "new" saddle to bed it in! and he seemed ok - but that's nothing to go by as haven't ridden him before

My dad hunted him today and he says P went well, didn't feel any different and showed no "sign" of disliking the saddle - no bucking, lashing out or the like. BUT he refused to jump ANYTHING!!!

This is VERY unlike P as he is very capable and jumps every time usually. Even in the old saddle which caused the white hair pressure patches!!!!!!!

My question to you guys is - Is it possible that the saddle feels SO different P was unsure and refused to jump? Has anyone else had a similar experience?

We have changed nothing else in his routine - feed, bitting, routine is all the same. All input welcome as it is starting to get really unsettling that we cannot get him comfortable.

 

[flyingfeet]

White hairs and sores are definitely not a good sign

You could try using a pad underneath to spread the pressure, however these only work if the saddle is slightly wide for your horse (a pad under a saddle that's too narrow will not help)

The best of the bunch is the Korrector pad from First Thought, you can alter the shape and air, which is very good, but highly expensive.

Failing that you may need to consider a new saddle I'm afraid. White hairs and sore patches are a clear indication of pressure. Not jumping could be a direct result of pinching, which may mean you ned a slightly wider saddle, which rules out a pad.

Have you got another saddle you could use in the interim to give his back a rest? I am totally paranoid about saddles and I am even having problems getting a WOW to fit perfectly as its leaving dry patches behind (also a sign of pressure or no contact)

 

[Lynz25]

My 7/8ths TB ended up not wanting to trot after 3 month of owning him - saddle fitted perfectly well according to the saddler who I bought it off. My riding instructor at the time advised me to try a company called BALANCE ( http://www.balanceinternational.com/saddles_how.html . So we called them out and neverr looked back in 12yrs. I now also have my New Forsest and full TB in them.

 

[Tierra]

Cant you have a second opinion on the saddle? Common sense would say that if its causing white hairs then it cant be fitting right.

Personally, Id have another saddler out and a chiropractor / physio / whatever your preference of back person. It needs sorting quite quickly as the longer the horse is in pain the more a) damage will be caused to the soft tissue in the back and b) chance there is that even once everything is ok, the horse will remember and predict the pain and could possibly react to that memory.

Anyway, the first step for me would be to try and get a different saddler to take a look and be prepared to replace the saddle.

 

[KatB]

I think she already has got a new saddle, as mentioned at the end, she has a new Ideal, but the horse wont jump in, even though it fits better??!

Have you tried a prolite pad or something similar to take impact off the back? Agree the albion doesnt seem to fit, the jumping could just be. if the horse has had a bad fitting saddle and adjusted to it, then a new one that fits evenly, could feel different, although IMO sounds like new one is pinching, what saddle cloths do you use? It the new saddle is a better fit, but still using thick numnahs, could be causing discomfort.

 

[flyingfeet]

Lynz25

Being nosey and interested I took a look at the balance website, however they don't explain what's so special about the saddles???

As far as I can see they appear to be off the peg saddles again. Interested as I have moved to WOW's.

 

[Lynz25]

OK here goes - maybe a long one I'm afraid.

The area around the wither is were a bundle of nervous tissue leaves the spine to innervate the front legs so if you fit a saddle which is too tight across the withers what can happen is that you can compromise the nerves with the pressure. In humans you can get something called thoracic outlet syndrome which is basically where the nervous tissue is restricted around the T4 vertebra due to vertebral tightness, excess bone growth or poor posture normally. This causes bilateral problems such as pain, pins and needles / numbness into the arms.

The traditional way of fitting a saddle is to get the saddle fitting around the withers as close as possible. When you ride a horse without a saddle what you feel is that the muscles which run next to the withers actually increase in size as they work also many horses when they are working in an outline rise up through the withers. For example in us if you put your chin to your chest and put your hand over the back of the neck you will feel movement upward into your hand. So what can happen if you have a saddle which fits well when your just sat it on the horses back it may not do so when you actually sit on the horse or work it. What can happen as the muscles are trying to work harder the compression of the saddle over the withers can cause an ischaemia to occur in the muscle - not enough blood flow - basically like if you sat on your bum for long periods it starts to hurt and you naturally start to fidget. Or in the case of my origional TB he refused to trot as it hurt. In the long term what happens is that the muscle ends up reducing its bulk which would then mean traditionally you'd then get a narrower tree and so the cycle starts again and then you develop higher withers. For example why do horses which have never been ridden rarely have high withers?

What they do is explained under the padding system on the site http://www.balanceinternational.com/saddles_pad.html
Basically what you allow the muscles to do is develop. For example my new TB that I bought last year was being ridden in a narrow saddle. When we bought him I got a Wintec as I could adjust the gusset at the wither so similating a balance saddle approach. He got fitted with a narrow/medium size and within 2 weeks this was tight over the withers so I put him into a wide but used some of my balance pads. About a 2 months later I put him in an extra wide - again using the padding system. This spring I was able to remove the pads and just ride in a normal numnah. However again it started to compress his wither and where he had started working in a lovely outline he soon came above the bit again. We have since bought a 2nd hand balance saddle which is a size smaller than my other TB's and again we are using the pads - the horse is working in a lovely outline. Over the last 18mths his wither area has noticeably developed with more muscle.

My mums NF was fitted with a extra wide saddle a couple of years ago and we have had it reflocked to suit him many a time - refuses to move forwards and shortens his stride when it is getting tight across his withers. I have now put him in the balance saddles and my word his gait has opened right up and much freer moving especially in canter - to the point now where I have trouble stopping as his gait is much freer!

As to why some horses end up not liking the traditional way that saddles are fitted and others are Ok I don't know. However in my experience I have had 3 horses who have definately benefitted. However new saddles from BALANCE are on the expensive side. I think that they do do 2nd hand ones still - they certainly used to.

 

[runaway]

Yeah you're right have got a new saddle to replace the one we know has caused the white patches with pinching. We use Griffin Nuumed pads with half sheep skin patches. See what you mean about if it fits better using the same pad could be deterimental. It is a bit of a mystery why he's suddenly refused.

The only other thing that has come to light is Dad thinks it may be a psychological thing. He's been taking wire from the top of the jumps to make them safe and while he's been doing it has been "wondering" if P will jump the fence! It is a possible cause and may just coincide with the saddle being new. Shall discuss the pad issue with him - thanks guys

 

[KatB]

That pad shouldnt cause a problem. I would school him at home over fences, see how he feels. Whats the horses conformation like? Does he have a high whither/prominant back bone? Albions can put alot of pressure over the shoulder area if badly fitting as they have long tree points. Ideal saddles don't, they are the opposite, so if he is used to a badly fitting albion, and then a ideal which will disperse weight over his back alot better, it may just be feeling very alien to him, and until he gets used to the fact he can actually free up his shoulders and back again, you may find a change in his way of going. However, It could also be psychological aswell!

Good luck with it

 

[runaway]

Do you know my dads horse KatB???

You discribed him perfectly HIGH withers and not much cover over the back. The Ideal saddle didn't seem to leave his back visibly sore like the Albion did, so feel that is a good sign. (If I had a Photobucket I'd post a pic.) The Ideal has MASSIVE pads as it's made with TB's in mind the saddler said to spread the weight.

If you look at the facts though it's a bit of a strange case:
A) bad fitting saddle + jumped no problem
B) new saddle (weight bearing area greater = less likely to have pressure points) + total refusal to jump!

It's usually the other way round isn't it??

The mind boggles hey!

 

[KatB]

It will just feel so different for him. Think of having someone putting a hard point into your shoulder muscles, its uncomfortable, but you will change your way of going tocope with it. Muscle wastage appears hence the prominant withers and back bone. Then you get a saddle that distributes weight over the rest of the muscle, and frees the shoulder, therefore the other muscles that have stopped working will have to take weight, so it will feel very odd for him. Give him some time with it, and i'm sure as muscles start to work properly and he gains cnfidence he'll be fine. Keep a close eye on muscle developement though, as may need saddle adjusting/reflocking regularly to start with....

 

[Thistle]

Not all Albions have long trees, they also do a warmblood tree which has much shorter points, could be that he needs the WB version of the Albion he was happy is.

I have a stable full of big shouldered horses and the shorter treed Albions and Ideals are my saddles of preference.

 

[KatB]

Fair enough, just by the sounds of things the albion they have had has caused the muscle wastage which sounds to me like its got long points! Very interesting about the WB tree, was wandering that when had my boy refitted, my albion didnt fit him, but the XC lite did. Prob had the WB tree.... thanks for clearing that up!