Saddle question please?

[NSD]

I have messaged my normal saddler to arrange for her to come out but she is currently on holiday and I wondered if anybody else has experience they can share please. I have a croup high horse that is in work. She is in an arena cob saddle, fitted by a qualified saddler and it fits her well my problem is, with her being so croup high I constantly feel like I am tipped forward....very forward. I love her dearly, got her as a two year old and obviously didn't realise she wasn't going to level up but this makes her a very unpleasant ride (she is now 8).

Is it possible to raise the front of a saddle on a croup high horse to balance the rider without it affecting the fit of the saddle on the horse. The saddle in its current fit doesn't make for pleasant riding at all. This isn't a new problem I have been riding like this for ages but is suddenly crossed my mind that something may be able to be raised in front? I have never actually discussed this with my saddler previously as I just accepted that this was the way it was but I'm getting to the point where I may just have to hack her in future because in the school she is awful.

Any experiences with this please?

Thanks

 

[sbloom]

Not really, not with a traditional treed saddle. If the saddle doesn't balance you as well as being in balance on her then it's not truly a good fit, your tipping forward affects her. Not only do you get more pressure on the front of the saddle (usually, some riders compensate and push back which causes its own issues), your pelvis and lower back are now all wrong and can't absorb her movement as well, or aid as effectively.

I've taken on a treeless brand that DOES have a good narrow twist where needed but also because I can change the fit for the rider without affecting the horse because the seat is velcroed on top of the "base". It gives me so much more scope to stabilise the pelvis of the rider, and help then with correct spinal alignment and whole body function.

An additional factor is how easy IS the saddle to balance on a croup high horse? Usually a shorter seat size is easier to balance as you're not going so high as you're not extending so far back, but that depends on whether that suits you too. Then a shorter or non-existent rear gusset is better on these shapes so that, as you lift the front into balance (which I suspect yours is not) the rear panel doesn't dig in. The Bates family of saddles tend to have pretty flat panels with larger/projected rear gussets so many not be the ideal candidate.

Just my take but I fit a LOT of wide horses and they're more likely to be croup high.

Your only "fudge" is to try and work with a thin seat saver adding shims (5mm yoga mat) attached under the front of it, trying not to affect the leather/foam on your saddle's seat!

And do work on posture (search on posture on here, I pontificate about it a lot!), she may never come level but with the right work (maybe start with Slow Walk Work group on FB, check out the featured posts) will help her ribcage to be less tilted down. If you can get the ribcage more level then it matters not whether she's technically croup high or not!

 

[NSD]

Not really, not with a traditional treed saddle. If the saddle doesn't balance you as well as being in balance on her then it's not truly a good fit, your tipping forward affects her. Not only do you get more pressure on the front of the saddle (usually, some riders compensate and push back which causes its own issues), your pelvis and lower back are now all wrong and can't absorb her movement as well, or aid as effectively.

I've taken on a treeless brand that DOES have a good narrow twist where needed but also because I can change the fit for the rider without affecting the horse because the seat is velcroed on top of the "base". It gives me so much more scope to stabilise the pelvis of the rider, and help then with correct spinal alignment and whole body function.

An additional factor is how easy IS the saddle to balance on a croup high horse? Usually a shorter seat size is easier to balance as you're not going so high as you're not extending so far back, but that depends on whether that suits you too. Then a shorter or non-existent rear gusset is better on these shapes so that, as you lift the front into balance (which I suspect yours is not) the rear panel doesn't dig in. The Bates family of saddles tend to have pretty flat panels with larger/projected rear gussets so many not be the ideal candidate.

Just my take but I fit a LOT of wide horses and they're more likely to be croup high.

Your only "fudge" is to try and work with a thin seat saver adding shims (5mm yoga mat) attached under the front of it, trying not to affect the leather/foam on your saddle's seat!

And do work on posture (search on posture on here, I pontificate about it a lot!), she may never come level but with the right work (maybe start with Slow Walk Work group on FB, check out the featured posts) will help her ribcage to be less tilted down. If you can get the ribcage more level then it matters not whether she's technically croup high or not!

Thank you, although not a cob she is a wide little thing currently in an xw gullet. The seat size is 16.5 as I'm only little myself. Sadly, as is always the case, that wasn't the response I was hoping for but I am aware you are very knowledgeable in these areas and will gladly accept your advice. I may just have to bite the bullet and look at a px. I will also look at the fb group you have recommended. Thank you

 

[sbloom]

It may simply be that the saddle isn't in balance therefore can't support you, or it may be that it sits you in the wrong place, or otherwise doesn't offer you enough support (width and/or height depending on your pelvis shape) in front. Impossible to know without a full assessment.

I've not only fitted cobs , it's a common issue, I think in part because we have shortened the backing process (as well as genetic reasons, though in WBs we're breeding them artificially UPhill) so horses don't have the readiness to carry a rider, and then training is so focused on compression - the fairly strong leg into hand that I think the VAST majority of trainers train, and if they don't do that then it's long and low as a way of going which cannot raise the front end and only makes things worse IMO.

And the shorter seat size is relative, if she only has space for a 16.5 then going smaller than that may help. It all depends how close you are to the back rib and how much she slopes actually under the saddle, some croup high horses are a little flatter under the saddle (often better posture, sometimes more congenital).

 

[SEL]

I know quite a few people with Ghost saddles (that @sbloom fits) on croup high ponies and I was going to borrow one off a friend until I impulse bought a WOW for my little downhill cob. She was a challenge for the fitter and my impulse buy wasn't actually that useful. She also brings her back up quite significantly in trot so fitting her static and seeing her move were quite different scenarios.

So we now have short wide panels for her and a slightly larger seat for me. The air flocking was adjusted to help balance it too and surprisingly when we played around with seats the WOW with the "straight" tree design brought her more into balance than the others.

I have sympathy with feeling like you are going downhill - riding her used to leave me with a sore back until I found a way of getting us both into balance. Sadly it might mean your current saddle just isn't right

 

[NSD]

I know quite a few people with Ghost saddles (that @sbloom fits) on croup high ponies and I was going to borrow one off a friend until I impulse bought a WOW for my little downhill cob. She was a challenge for the fitter and my impulse buy wasn't actually that useful. She also brings her back up quite significantly in trot so fitting her static and seeing her move were quite different scenarios.

So we now have short wide panels for her and a slightly larger seat for me. The air flocking was adjusted to help balance it too and surprisingly when we played around with seats the WOW with the "straight" tree design brought her more into balance than the others.

I have sympathy with feeling like you are going downhill - riding her used to leave me with a sore back until I found a way of getting us both into balance. Sadly it might mean your current saddle just isn't right

That is exactly it SEL, Sasha also feels like she has her back up in trot. Ill get her out and see what she can bring along with her. She has access to a wide range luckily

 

[NSD]

Not really, not with a traditional treed saddle. If the saddle doesn't balance you as well as being in balance on her then it's not truly a good fit, your tipping forward affects her. Not only do you get more pressure on the front of the saddle (usually, some riders compensate and push back which causes its own issues), your pelvis and lower back are now all wrong and can't absorb her movement as well, or aid as effectively.

I've taken on a treeless brand that DOES have a good narrow twist where needed but also because I can change the fit for the rider without affecting the horse because the seat is velcroed on top of the "base". It gives me so much more scope to stabilise the pelvis of the rider, and help then with correct spinal alignment and whole body function.

An additional factor is how easy IS the saddle to balance on a croup high horse? Usually a shorter seat size is easier to balance as you're not going so high as you're not extending so far back, but that depends on whether that suits you too. Then a shorter or non-existent rear gusset is better on these shapes so that, as you lift the front into balance (which I suspect yours is not) the rear panel doesn't dig in. The Bates family of saddles tend to have pretty flat panels with larger/projected rear gussets so many not be the ideal candidate.

Just my take but I fit a LOT of wide horses and they're more likely to be croup high.

Your only "fudge" is to try and work with a thin seat saver adding shims (5mm yoga mat) attached under the front of it, trying not to affect the leather/foam on your saddle's seat!

And do work on posture (search on posture on here, I pontificate about it a lot!), she may never come level but with the right work (maybe start with Slow Walk Work group on FB, check out the featured posts) will help her ribcage to be less tilted down. If you can get the ribcage more level then it matters not whether she's technically croup high or not!

Ive just been on your website and see you actually cover Preston, Lancashire where i am. Where can i find out more about the saddles you fit and do you have access to 2nd hand ones please?

 

[sbloom]

Ive just been on your website and see you actually cover Preston, Lancashire where i am. Where can i find out more about the saddles you fit and do you have access to 2nd hand ones please?

I'm so sorry, my website is out of date and I wasn't able to continue to fit in that area. If you find me on Facebook (I use my real name on here, you need my newer page with me standing behind a couple of saddles) then you can find out more, I may be able to help remotely (not sure if I know any recommended fitters who would cover your area).

 

[NSD]

I'm so sorry, my website is out of date and I wasn't able to continue to fit in that area. If you find me on Facebook (I use my real name on here, you need my newer page with me standing behind a couple of saddles) then you can find out more, I may be able to help remotely (not sure if I know any recommended fitters who would cover your area).

thank you

 

[Baywonder]

With your current saddle it sounds like you can only improvise as best you can with lifting it at the front. But, care must be taken, as this can potentially cause more problems than it solves.

Making a saddle from scratch, it certainly is possible to accommodate this, using a traditional English wooden spring tree. It is vital you work with a Saddler who has the experience, and knows what they are doing. My DH (50+ years as a Saddler, 35+ years fitting) is about to make a saddle for a wide, extremely croup high horse. Strangely enough, wide, croup high horses are normally easier to do than narrower types.

If you want to send a PM I would be happy to advise you further.